Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back copy protection clarification needed

[A500+]

Hi guys,

New registrant, long time lurker here. Good to meet you all!

For clarity I'm playing in emulation via WinUAE. I have a real A1200 but no HD or CF (yet) so it's not currently an option.

So after playing around with the idea of creating a self-contained Dungeon Master collection I can carry around with me on a USB stick I encountered various problems with both DM and CSB (I haven't even started on DM 2 yet!). I'll spare you the long story but I eventually got the DM and CSB WHDLoad installs from WHDownload and they appear to work okay. The only problem is I'm unable to import my DM save into CSB. I go through the CSB install routine providing a DM save disk and it says it's installed correctly but then fails to boot with a 'DOS-Error #205 on Disk.1'. I've tried every CSB release in the TOSEC library and a fair few I've found in The Zone but none of them work. I even tried using the Disk.1 and Disk.2 files contained in the WHDLoad install itself, renaming them with a .adf extension but to no avail (I'm not sure if it's even possible to do that anyway but I figured it was worth a go!).

So, after some research I came across this thread. There is a lot of technical talk in there and I'm not 100% sure I've interpreted it correctly, but I think it means there is currently no fully working (either sans copy protection or else successfully cracked) ADFs or IPFs of CSB anywhere, right? Also a lot (but not all?) of the DM releases floating around have problems with copy protection too?

That then lead me to thinking and I have a few questions you guys might be able to clarify for me in lamens terms:

1) Do the DM and CSB WHDLoad installs (from WHDownload) both work 100% through to completion, or are they both blighted by the copy protection at some point?

1.a) If they do work, then what versions were used to install them (presumably on real hardware but then how do they work in emulation via WHDLoad if still copy protected)?

1.b) If they don't work is there any way to play them successfully via emulation - whether using WHDLoad or floppy images?

2) Is it possible to import a saved DM game into the WHDLoad version of CSB given that you need to use the install routine (and thus working CSB disks) to do it?

3) Does anyone know if DM 2 has any of the same problems or does the WHDLoad install of that game work 100% through to completion.

The answers to these questions are probably already out there, I know, and I have tried to research and figure it out for myself but it may be a rare case of too much information being available as I'm quite confused by it all. I hope you don't mind me seeking some clarification here.

Thanks in advance guys.

[Snoopy1234]

This thread has discussed the issue of DM copy protection. Don't know about save disks. If the protection is triggered it won't allow a save disk afaik.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...Dungeon+Master

[A500+]

Yeah that's the thread I linked to and is the one that has confused me slightly as it's very technical (for me at least) and seems to have several conversations going on within it. That's why I've started a separate thread for some clarification, if possible.

[Snoopy1234]

Check the "Important Notes" on the WHDLoad CSB info page.

http://www.whdload.de/games/ChaosStrikesBack.html

Whdownload installs aren't always the latest and greatest either.

[Thorham]

There's a version of Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back that work 100% and run multitasking under the OS (by meynaf):https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=49830

Requires an accelerated Amiga (68020+ and some extra ram). Not a problem for WinUae. Might work fine on an A1200 with just some extra ram (don't know if the internal 14 mhz 68020 is fast enough).

It has some extra features like an auto map, WASD and custom dungeon support.

[A500+]

Originally Posted by Snoopy1234

Check the "Important Notes" on the WHDLoad CSB info page.

http://www.whdload.de/games/ChaosStrikesBack.html

Whdownload installs aren't always the latest and greatest either.

Ah so it's installed using version 3.5 and should work despite copy protection. Useful to know. Thanks.

Still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find working 3.5 in order to re-install and import DM saves though

[A500+]

Originally Posted by Thorham

There's a version of Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back that work 100% and run multitasking under the OS (by meynaf):https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=49830

Requires an accelerated Amiga (68020+ and some extra ram). Not a problem for WinUae. Might work fine on an A1200 with just some extra ram (don't know if the internal 14 mhz 68020 is fast enough).

It has some extra features like an auto map, WASD and custom dungeon support.

Cool I'll check that out. Thanks.

Are they the original games just with some quality of life improvements added? A quick glance seems like there are also custom dungeons added? Do you know if they're optional or not? Cool to check out but I'm looking for as close to the original as I can get - just for the nostalgia really.

Also do you know if you can import DM saves in CSB on those versions?

I'll have a look myself but figured I'd ask whist I'm getting around to it.

[BarryB]

Don't forget the Psygnosis v3.6 release of Dungeon Master has the copy protection removed!

[A500+]

Originally Posted by BarryB

Don't forget the Psygnosis v3.6 release of Dungeon Master has the copy protection removed!

Yes I was aware of this but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder!

[A500+]

Okay so according to 'Important Notes' on the CSB WHDLoad page version 3.5 works despite the copy protection.

But looking at the file listings on the DM Encyclopaedia it says the following of the 3.5 disks (my emphasis):

"Chaos Strikes Back for Amiga Game Disk version 3.5 (English, French, German) Original, not working because of the copy protection"

Forgive me for getting confused again, but does this mean they don't work at all, or only when booted from the ADF? As in - will something within the WHDLoad install or resulting .slave make them work despite the copy protection? Or do I need to find other 3.5 disks instead (which probably don't exist anywhere online)?

[A500+]

Originally Posted by A500+

Okay so according to 'Important Notes' on the CSB WHDLoad page version 3.5 works despite the copy protection.

But looking at the file listings on the DM Encyclopaedia it says the following of the 3.5 disks (my emphasis):

"Chaos Strikes Back for Amiga Game Disk version 3.5 (English, French, German) Original, not working because of the copy protection"

Forgive me for getting confused again, but does this mean they don't work at all, or only when booted from the ADF? As in - will something within the WHDLoad install or resulting .slave make them work despite the copy protection? Or do I need to find other 3.5 disks instead (which probably don't exist anywhere online)?

Answering my own question. Just tried with the 3.5 disks and they're not working either. I have no idea how the author of the WHDLoad install got this game to work but I think perhaps it involved incantations and ritual sacrifice!

It seems there's no way to import a DM save into CSB on Amiga via emulation then?

At least the existing installs from WHDownload should work through to the end... I hope!

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by A500+

3) Does anyone know if DM 2 has any of the same problems or does the WHDLoad install of that game work 100% through to completion.

DM2 has to be installed on HD and does not really need whdload. It is not copy protected.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Might work fine on an A1200 with just some extra ram (don't know if the internal 14 mhz 68020 is fast enough).

It should run on unexpanded A1200, at least for original dungeons. No need for extra ram (it uses around 1MB).

Originally Posted by A500+

Are they the original games just with some quality of life improvements added?

Original dungeons have been kept unchanged, except for a few bug fixes (it was previously possible to lock yourself in some levels).
Also DM has end animation sequence from PC version.

Originally Posted by A500+

A quick glance seems like there are also custom dungeons added? Do you know if they're optional or not? Cool to check out but I'm looking for as close to the original as I can get - just for the nostalgia really.

Of course they are optional. If you only want original dungeons, just play original dungeons.
Note that FTL actually made other games using same engine than just DM and CSB : Kid's dungeon and Theron's quest. They are included too.

Originally Posted by A500+

Also do you know if you can import DM saves in CSB on those versions?

Only if you played DM with that same program. Due to added functionnality it is not compatible with original saves.
Then you don't even need to save the game for your party to go from DM to CSB because utility disk is integrated and does that on current party.

Originally Posted by A500+

It seems there's no way to import a DM save into CSB on Amiga via emulation then?

I have patched CSB 3.3 for HD install and full crack, but it's french version only.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

It should run on unexpanded A1200, at least for original dungeons. No need for extra ram (it uses around 1MB).

Thought it might need fast ram for speed.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Thought it might need fast ram for speed.

For big custom dungeons yes, but original ones are simple and don't push the engine.

[A500+]

Originally Posted by meynaf

DM2 has to be installed on HD and does not really need whdload. It is not copy protected.




It should run on unexpanded A1200, at least for original dungeons. No need for extra ram (it uses around 1MB).




Original dungeons have been kept unchanged, except for a few bug fixes (it was previously possible to lock yourself in some levels).
Also DM has end animation sequence from PC version.



Of course they are optional. If you only want original dungeons, just play original dungeons.
Note that FTL actually made other games using same engine than just DM and CSB : Kid's dungeon and Theron's quest. They are included too.



Only if you played DM with that same program. Due to added functionnality it is not compatible with original saves.
Then you don't even need to save the game for your party to go from DM to CSB because utility disk is integrated and does that on current party.




I have patched CSB 3.3 for HD install and full crack, but it's french version only.

That's brilliant meynaf! Thank you!! I'll definitely use your DM and CSB versions then. Great work.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by A500+

just for the nostalgia really

That's how it starts, but with these games you'll probably end up playing because they're still fun.

[Snoopy1234]

Originally Posted by A500+

Cool I'll check that out. Thanks.

Are they the original games just with some quality of life improvements added? A quick glance seems like there are also custom dungeons added? Do you know if they're optional or not? Cool to check out but I'm looking for as close to the original as I can get - just for the nostalgia really.

Also do you know if you can import DM saves in CSB on those versions?

I'll have a look myself but figured I'd ask whist I'm getting around to it.

The install text says v3.1 has been fully tested and v3.5 partially tested.

My copy is v3.3 so no idea if it would work.

[Snoopy1234]

Originally Posted by A500+

Okay so according to 'Important Notes' on the CSB WHDLoad page version 3.5 works despite the copy protection.

But looking at the file listings on the DM Encyclopaedia it says the following of the 3.5 disks (my emphasis):

"Chaos Strikes Back for Amiga Game Disk version 3.5 (English, French, German) Original, not working because of the copy protection"

Forgive me for getting confused again, but does this mean they don't work at all, or only when booted from the ADF? As in - will something within the WHDLoad install or resulting .slave make them work despite the copy protection? Or do I need to find other 3.5 disks instead (which probably don't exist anywhere online)?

The WHDLoad install text says v3.1 has been fully tested and v3.5 partially tested.

I have v3.3 so no idea...

[A500+]

Originally Posted by Snoopy1234

The WHDLoad install text says v3.1 has been fully tested and v3.5 partially tested.

I have v3.3 so no idea...

It may be that 3.1 and/or 3.5 work on real hardware with original disks, but I've tried all the 3.5 (and other) versions I can find floating around the dark and not-so-dark corners of the web and none of them work.

Once I get round to grabbing a HD or CF card for my A1200 I might try to get hold of some original disks and see if I can get it working, if only for kicks, but meynaf's versions are looking like a great alternative.

Now I just need to figure out how to get them to auto-boot into the game when WB loads so I can make a make-shift collection pack with a nice little menu because I'm too lazy to to load the games manually every time but not too lazy to actually bother building a menu

Oh, and for all those who celebrate or observe - all the best! And for all those who don't, have a lovely day anyway

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by A500+

meynaf's versions are looking like a great alternative

They're worth it just for WASD (original uses numpad ).

Merry Christmas