Doomed to the PC? - Amiga Pro, July 1994 - Page 3

Gorf · 15 May 2018, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigaTech

Now then, which do you think would win?

My A3000

Foebane · 16 May 2018, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valken

For now, I'm playing Brutal Doom or Project Brutality in OpenGL on the PC for better speed and performance!

I've played Brutal Doom on a fairly fast PC and believe me, the graphical intensity that can occur will mean that no Amiga could ever run it. Never.

Valken · 16 May 2018, 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

I've played Brutal Doom on a fairly fast PC and believe me, the graphical intensity that can occur will mean that no Amiga could ever run it. Never.

I understand how you feel...throwing hundreds of monsters at Hurt Me Plenty Difficulty with all the OpenGL effects... I just wanted to see IF the Amiga pull this off even at 640x480/512 resolution...

Maybe a Warp3D HW accelerated version of AmigaDoom or MorphOS with OpenGL HW accelertion port one day...

Foebane · 16 May 2018, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valken

I understand how you feel...throwing hundreds of monsters at Hurt Me Plenty Difficulty with all the OpenGL effects... I just wanted to see IF the Amiga pull this off even at 640x480/512 resolution...

Maybe a Warp3D HW accelerated version of AmigaDoom or MorphOS with OpenGL HW accelertion port one day...

I think most of it IS the OpenGL effects. I'm sure that if those were reduced or eliminated, then a high-end Amiga with enough RAM could cover all the extra animation frames for weapons, rip+tear, etc, etc.

Basically, Brutal Doom would be required to run without the benefit of 3D acceleration whatsoever.

MigaTech · 16 May 2018, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorf

My A3000

What are you kicking in that A3K? I am assuming something fast like a Cyberstorm PPC. It has to be, going off how confident your post is, knowing you are up against an A1200 equipped with a Phase 5 Blizzard PPC 603e @ 240MHz / 256MB.

trixster · 16 May 2018, 19:39

DoomAttack is a great version of doom to play but it keeps the 35fps cap of the original engine. Try Boom, ZDoom or Odamex for uncapped versions.

trixster · 16 May 2018, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigaTech

YShame I cannot get my PPC to run it, would be good to see that against PC version.

Any ideas why you can't get it running? The WOS version of Doom runs great on a sonnet so I would have thought it would work ok on a BlizzardPPC.

MigaTech · 16 May 2018, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

Any ideas why you can't get it running? The WOS version of Doom runs great on a sonnet so I would have thought it would work ok on a BlizzardPPC.

Quake automatically switches to PPC mode, after loading the fields. When loading Doom II it just locates the 040 and ignores the 603e.

Wasn't sure if there is something else required as Quake took a little setting up, before it run correctly. BPPC's are difficult at best but when they are running correctly, they are incredible Accelerators.

trixster · 16 May 2018, 22:40

Hmm, it sounds like maybe you're not trying the WOS version of Doom, or you need to launch it with a command line or tooltype specifying the PPC. Are you using ADoomPPC?
http://aminet.net/package/game/shoot/ADoomPPC

You're running the ClickBoom version of Quake? Have you given Cowcat's BlitzQuake a try? That works brilliantly with PPC and a Voodoo as well.

MigaTech · 16 May 2018, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

Hmm, it sounds like maybe you're not trying the WOS version of Doom, or you need to launch it with a command line or tooltype specifying the PPC. Are you using ADoomPPC?
http://aminet.net/package/game/shoot/ADoomPPC

You're running the ClickBoom version of Quake? Have you given Cowcat's BlitzQuake a try? That works brilliantly with PPC and a Voodoo as well.

S**t, I forgot about ADoomPPC and I even have a version of this on CF file too! you are correct it is ClickBoom Quake, so good guess. I am running ClickBoom MYST and it doesn't want to display in the RTG! Just hear music and sounds with a blank screen.

Now you got me thinking trixster! Interesting! Is that other version of Quake available?

Gorf · 16 May 2018, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigaTech

What are you kicking in that A3K? I am assuming something fast like a Cyberstorm PPC. It has to be, going off how confident your post is, knowing you are up against an A1200 equipped with a Phase 5 Blizzard PPC 603e @ 240MHz / 256MB.

Cyberstorm PPC
060@50 + 604e@233
(did some overclocking but went back to original)

the 604e@233 should still beat the 603e@240

MigaTech · 16 May 2018, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorf

Cyberstorm PPC
060@50 + 604e@233
(did some overclocking but went back to original)

the 604e@233 should still beat the 603e@240

Agreed, you Bast**d !!

trixster · 17 May 2018, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigaTech

S**t, I forgot about ADoomPPC and I even have a version of this on CF file too! you are correct it is ClickBoom Quake, so good guess. I am running ClickBoom MYST and it doesn't want to display in the RTG! Just hear music and sounds with a blank screen.

Now you got me thinking trixster! Interesting! Is that other version of Quake available?

Search for threads by cowcat on here, there's a thread about blitzquake

Are you running your Voodoo in 16bit? Other modes don't seem to work correctly.

trixster · 17 May 2018, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigaTech

Agreed, you Bast**d !!

You gents need to see about getting a sonnet or a rapture card....

MigaTech · 17 May 2018, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

Are you running your Voodoo in 16bit? Other modes don't seem to work correctly.

800 x 600 32 BIT with full 16.8 Million Colours. So if I reconfigure in 16BIT, it should display MYST correctly?

I am also going to install ADoomPPC and then compare speeds against PC of the early 1990's. Seems crazy that they stated Amiga couldn't run Doom back then, when all the time it could!

trixster · 17 May 2018, 19:22

It might make a difference to myst, it might not. worth a try. in the sonnet thread we have found that voodoo 3's seem to work better in 16bit for some games.

Comparing ADoomPPC on a c.200mhz ppc cpu to a 1993 25mhz+ 486 PC is comparing apple with oranges. The first Amiga PPC board came out in about 1997, Doom shareware was released 1993.

According to the Doom wiki, a NeXTcube version of Doom existed in 1993 (running on an 040), and a MacOS 68k port of Doom II came out in 1995, so Doom could have been done on the Amiga, it's just that no one chose to port it. My first experience of Doom was playing the shareware version on my dad's work pc in '93, and then playing it on my mate's dad's home 386. It was mind-blowing. Millions and millions of people all over the world who had PCs in the home or office probably thought the same. Doom hit the PC at exactly the right time, it was the killer app, it was free (!), it sparked everyone's imagination and it caused people to buy or upgrade a PC just for the experience. On the other hand, by 1993 the Amiga was starting to lose its footing close to the top of the tree. Kids in schools were looking towards the Megadrive and the SNES (at least, that was the case in my school) as the coolest bits of affordable kit, a few of us were still punching away with out STs, A500s and new A1200s, and the rich kids were getting PCs (or at least the family was getting one!). I knew no-one with a big-box Amiga, I knew no-one with an 030 or 040 Amiga, so I can envisage why id chose to ignore the Amiga market for a game that was far beyond the capabilities of the standard Amiga user.

MigaTech · 17 May 2018, 21:14

@trixster, Thanks for the information in regards to RTG. Even though I owned a BPPC back in the day and now, you never stop learnig about the setting up of them. They are unreal Accelerators but tricky. I have Fast ATA, Mediator, RTG, sound card and OS4.0 so not easy to manage.

As for your comments about how it all changed in the early to mid 1990's, I agree with you, once the Amiga lost its grip at the top of the charts, it fell fast.

You do realise that PC Doom was not the only thing that helped to push Amiga off the top slot. What about the Sony Playstation, specially with games like Resident Evil and lets not forget they even did a Doom port for that, which was incredible for a 1994 games console.

trixster · 18 May 2018, 20:43

Yes indeed, commodore had rested on its laurels for too long. For many amiga fans (not all) the A1200 looked good, but compared to the competition it was too little too late. Megadrive and SNES were cheap, established, and great if you wanted games and not a computer. PCs were getting within the reach of families, and Doom and Ultima Underworld and texture-mapped 3d was seen as the future. the next generation of consoles was on the horizon, as you say, so in the space of about 3 years the amiga looked increasingly long in the tooth.

I can understand what you say about the BPPC. I would love to own one, I never have.

MigaTech · 19 May 2018, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

I can understand what you say about the BPPC. I would love to own one, I never have.

Yes they are simply Amazing. Problem is they are extremely rare and frighteningly expensive!! I bought my first one in 1998 for £480 and my second one, cost even more than the first.

Nowadays, you would have to take out a small loan to buy one, that's if you can find one for sale! When they do come available for sale, usually they are out of most peoples price tag. Despite this, they still remain extremely coveted!

My BPPC is the fastest 603e /040 issue they did. The 603e being @ max issue speed of 240MHz. It also has Max RAM @ 256MB.

Quake, is incredible and 2097 is better than the Playstation version. It is a real shame that Phase 5 never got the Cyberstorms and the BPPCs released earlier than 1997. Maybe this thread wouldn't exist then?

swinkamor12 · 20 May 2018, 08:42

In 1996 I sell my Amiga 1200 and buy cheap PC.
Change to PC cost as much money as upgrade my amiga 1200 to 68030.
But on PC I have many times faster cpu than 68030, 24 bit graphics, 16 bit sound, 2D and 3D graphics where accelerated.
Amiga 1200 in 1992 should have chunky pixel graphics, slots for FAST RAM, and blitter with texture mapping, if commodore have not go to bankrupt.

17 May 2018, 19:22	#56
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	It might make a difference to myst, it might not. worth a try. in the sonnet thread we have found that voodoo 3's seem to work better in 16bit for some games. Comparing ADoomPPC on a c.200mhz ppc cpu to a 1993 25mhz+ 486 PC is comparing apple with oranges. The first Amiga PPC board came out in about 1997, Doom shareware was released 1993. According to the Doom wiki, a NeXTcube version of Doom existed in 1993 (running on an 040), and a MacOS 68k port of Doom II came out in 1995, so Doom could have been done on the Amiga, it's just that no one chose to port it. My first experience of Doom was playing the shareware version on my dad's work pc in '93, and then playing it on my mate's dad's home 386. It was mind-blowing. Millions and millions of people all over the world who had PCs in the home or office probably thought the same. Doom hit the PC at exactly the right time, it was the killer app, it was free (!), it sparked everyone's imagination and it caused people to buy or upgrade a PC just for the experience. On the other hand, by 1993 the Amiga was starting to lose its footing close to the top of the tree. Kids in schools were looking towards the Megadrive and the SNES (at least, that was the case in my school) as the coolest bits of affordable kit, a few of us were still punching away with out STs, A500s and new A1200s, and the rich kids were getting PCs (or at least the family was getting one!). I knew no-one with a big-box Amiga, I knew no-one with an 030 or 040 Amiga, so I can envisage why id chose to ignore the Amiga market for a game that was far beyond the capabilities of the standard Amiga user. Last edited by trixster; 17 May 2018 at 19:54.

17 May 2018, 21:14	#57
MigaTech Only Amiga !! Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 588	*@trixster,* Thanks for the information in regards to RTG. Even though I owned a BPPC back in the day and now, you never stop learnig about the setting up of them. They are unreal Accelerators but tricky. I have Fast ATA, Mediator, RTG, sound card and OS4.0 so not easy to manage. As for your comments about how it all changed in the early to mid 1990's, I agree with you, once the Amiga lost its grip at the top of the charts, it fell fast. You do realise that PC Doom was not the only thing that helped to push Amiga off the top slot. What about the Sony Playstation, specially with games like Resident Evil and lets not forget they even did a Doom port for that, which was incredible for a 1994 games console. Last edited by MigaTech; 18 May 2018 at 23:50. Reason: Text correction.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Doomed: The Embers of Amiga FPS	turrican3	Nostalgia & memories	3	24 March 2015 15:38
Doomed from the start	antonvaltaz	Nostalgia & memories	58	01 January 2011 15:15
CU Amiga August 1994 pages problem?	spirit	AMR data problems	5	11 October 2007 21:01
CU Amiga Feb 1994 redirect mistake	spirit	AMR data problems	3	24 September 2007 09:44
Amiga 1994 Poll (no mistakes, I hope)	Freakyweakywoo	Retrogaming General Discussion	25	22 August 2005 16:04

16 May 2018, 19:39	#46
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	DoomAttack is a great version of doom to play but it keeps the 35fps cap of the original engine. Try Boom, ZDoom or Odamex for uncapped versions.

16 May 2018, 22:40	#49
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	Hmm, it sounds like maybe you're not trying the WOS version of Doom, or you need to launch it with a command line or tooltype specifying the PPC. Are you using ADoomPPC? http://aminet.net/package/game/shoot/ADoomPPC You're running the ClickBoom version of Quake? Have you given Cowcat's BlitzQuake a try? That works brilliantly with PPC and a Voodoo as well.

18 May 2018, 20:43	#58
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	Yes indeed, commodore had rested on its laurels for too long. For many amiga fans (not all) the A1200 looked good, but compared to the competition it was too little too late. Megadrive and SNES were cheap, established, and great if you wanted games and not a computer. PCs were getting within the reach of families, and Doom and Ultima Underworld and texture-mapped 3d was seen as the future. the next generation of consoles was on the horizon, as you say, so in the space of about 3 years the amiga looked increasingly long in the tooth. I can understand what you say about the BPPC. I would love to own one, I never have.

20 May 2018, 08:42	#60
swinkamor12 Banned Join Date: May 2017 Location: Vienna/Austria Posts: 84	In 1996 I sell my Amiga 1200 and buy cheap PC. Change to PC cost as much money as upgrade my amiga 1200 to 68030. But on PC I have many times faster cpu than 68030, 24 bit graphics, 16 bit sound, 2D and 3D graphics where accelerated. Amiga 1200 in 1992 should have chunky pixel graphics, slots for FAST RAM, and blitter with texture mapping, if commodore have not go to bankrupt.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)