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Old 14 August 2019, 09:47   #161
Steril707
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Exactly..
I think this claim that he is just converting photos is unfounded.

His stuff is legit.
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Old 14 August 2019, 11:11   #162
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Thanks for providing the links. I took a look at the videos. So that's what the the reference to the palette "already done" was about. I was hopeful at first, noticing that the videos were a few hours long, but after watching them, they've only cemented my conclusion. Props for being able to use Dpaint, though. That's what people must mean by "Pixel Artist". However, when he can draw without using a photo (that's also already been altered to show him how his shading-work should look), then let me know so I can congratulate him - otherwise until then, the disparity of detail in his art-styles seen in his games will always give it away that he hasn't learned to draw yet.

Rather painstaking way to look legit - but perhaps it might teach him to be able to actually draw free-hand something original some day.
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Old 14 August 2019, 11:43   #163
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@Longlife: So you don't have any evidence, and are just guessing.

Sorry, but for me that's really super bad behaviour on the internet.
You cannot just state things about people that might be simply untrue.
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Old 14 August 2019, 13:57   #164
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Even if he's tracing the outlines and using photos for inspiration, there's still some non-trivial skill involved in turning it into a pixel art picture or a sprite/bob for a game.

I know, I genuinely have a lack of artistic talent and my attempts look distinctly worse.
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Old 14 August 2019, 14:06   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
[...] I know, I genuinely have a lack of artistic talent and my attempts look distinctly worse.
I understand you.
I have the same problem ...
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Old 14 August 2019, 14:32   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
@Longlife: So you don't have any evidence, and are just guessing.
Ironically JoJo073 already provided it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
You cannot just state things about people that might be simply untrue.
..
Sorry, but for me that's really super bad behaviour on the internet.
This is, unfortunately, a "if you only knew" situation. I doubt you'll study art just to find out for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
... there's still some non-trivial skill involved in turning it into a pixel art
People must have missed it; I had said "Props for being able to use Dpaint, though. That's what people must mean by "Pixel Artist"."

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Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
using photos for inspiration
Calling it "inspiration" is the issue here. Take away the photo... and what happens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
I know, I genuinely have a lack of artistic talent and my attempts look distinctly worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
I understand you.
I have the same problem ...
In all fairness, you could achieve a similar result using the quicker method. In other words, you too can become JoJo073-level "good".
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Old 14 August 2019, 14:38   #167
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Jojo is a better artist that I, despite his aides. Maybe he's no pixel master but from where I'm sitting his skills deserve a bit of respect, even if his behaviour here doesn't.
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Old 14 August 2019, 14:55   #168
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I am doing a game myself, writing all code and doing graphics.

I *am* looking at other graphics as a guide to draw my own and sill can't achieve great results.

And I am not looking at pictures, I am looking AT PIXEL ART to try to do similar stuff and i still can't get it right.

So, yeah, I still think there's some skill involved here. I really don't think it's fair to attack him *for this*.

And I am using Grafx2 on Windows which, from what I understand, it's basically Deluxe Paint for Windows.

That program is freaking amazing. I understand why people still use it today. It's a lot better than anything I ever used when you're trying to do this kind of graphics.
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Old 14 August 2019, 15:18   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
This is, unfortunately, a "if you only knew" situation. I doubt you'll study art just to find out for yourself.
I don't see what the problem is here.. It's pretty obvious JoJo is taking photographs as his inspiration and then pixels them into DPaint.

What you are implying is, that he takes those photos and shoves them through a couple of filters..
And for that I would like to see some kind of evidence on your side.

Simply calling someone out without any proof is foul game.
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Old 14 August 2019, 15:34   #170
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Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
his skills deserve a bit of respect
He does and will, however, let's keep it reasonable is all I ask. Praise for his better *ahem* art is a little blown out of proportion. It's the other stuff that show where his skill-level is really at.

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Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
In all fairness, you could achieve a similar result using the quicker method. In other words, you too can become JoJo073-level "good".
I wasn't exaggerating when I said that.

You'll need the tool-set (I've already mention the three main ones - their names would vary depending on the program you use), a photo, and then play with the settings until you're happy with the look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
I *am* looking at other graphics as a guide to draw my own and sill can't achieve great results.

And I am not looking at pictures, I am looking AT PIXEL ART to try to do similar stuff and i still can't get it right.
That way would require learning about form/proportions etc. JoJo073's way is to just skip all that and just use the photo for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
So, yeah, I still think there's some skill involved here. I really don't think it's fair to attack him *for this*.
Hmm. Starting to think people don't take this seriously and only use it as an excuse to do some grandstanding.

It's fine if you're not sure and want to give JoJo073 the benefit of the doubt. How about giving me the same benefit then.

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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
Simply calling someone out without any proof is foul game.
And this is a prime example of the grandstanding that's going on. You quote me, but don't read what I write. I just explained what it would require of you to understand. Become as good as you "perceive" JoJo to be and then you'll see through his tricks. But, of course, you won't.

Last edited by LongLifeA1200; 14 August 2019 at 15:47.
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Old 14 August 2019, 15:53   #171
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Quote:
Hmm. Starting to think people don't take this seriously and only use it as an excuse to do some grandstanding.
Not doing grandstanding. Maybe we got used with people downloading ripped graphics from internet and claiming he did it himself... so this doesn't look that bad
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Old 14 August 2019, 16:54   #172
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Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
And this is a prime example of the grandstanding that's going on. You quote me, but don't read what I write. I just explained what it would require of you to understand. Become as good as you "perceive" JoJo to be and then you'll see through his tricks. But, of course, you won't.
Mate you have absolutely no proof is what he is saying and he is correct. Your "expert" opinion is as good as jojo's or anyone else's. I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. You're assuming.

Produce facts or go somewhere else with your accusations.

And again I am not defending jojo as I think he is an untalented, reprehensible man, but what you are doing is no better. I'm tired of this kinda crap in this board. It's become a cesspool of conspiracy theorists.
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Old 14 August 2019, 17:23   #173
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2 pages of arguing whether or not jojo073 can draw.

LongLifeA1200; you've made your point numerous times now but without any real proof.

A lot of others disagree.

Let's just leave it at that shall we and move on.
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Old 14 August 2019, 17:46   #174
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To admit you don't have enough knowledge to make a judgement, only to then deny others that would, of theirs, is nonsensical.

Even after the mentioning that non-artists could achieve the same result, they choose to ignore that and instead focus on pointless grandstanding. Just proves my point - they're not really serious at all.

If people want to remain gullible, that's their business, but I don't have to concede when I know how the method works.

Guess I won't bother with the tutorial. Just another waste of my time, again.
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Old 14 August 2019, 18:07   #175
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Please let's just move on with this aspect of the discussion LongLifeA1200.
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Old 14 August 2019, 18:24   #176
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Now, not to defend jojo attitude (is not possible), but to pinpoint on the supposed cheating, i feel that the way pixel art work here is kinda misunderstood.

As also a pixel artist, illustrator and former art student let me say that even retouching or tracing pictures with dpaint is NOT that simple:

i did it a couple of times in the 90s based on black and white digitized frames from VCR for Powder, even though at the end the final result was not that good; palettes does not match, original was grainy and had to include lot of hand drawn details to make even look decent.

I know there are several techniques for pixel art, and most took from real life. A lot of illustrators base their work from photos, enlarge it to canvas size (usually B4) and paint over it; that is easily understandable given the time constraints.

There is always the "purist" that will say that those techniques are cheating; problem is that do the real thing is very time consuming; between studies, composition preparation and feedback (talking on physical paints) it takes several weeks before the real work can start, and sometimes longer; this people need to eat so the shorter the time spent in doing their job the better.

Pixel art techniques similar to this (talking about Amiga indexed, not 24/32 bit displays) can be summarized as digitizing and recoloring or lighttable (picture in spare canvas and you trace over it).

Plus you can of course posterize, reduce the palette of a picture but will not pass as a hand made; lot of extra work will be needed.

So at the end whatever method jojo uses is still not that easy/free.

I have seen some demoartist in Spoletium 98 mixing pictures and pixel art in trueBrilliance and then reducing the final result at indexed palette, so i know those techniques are well used and accepted.

If for you pixel art is ONLY the one that start with a blank screen then let me tell you that is one of the way, not THE way, and your idea that not doing that is cheating is strictly subjective.

Last edited by saimon69; 14 August 2019 at 18:51.
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Old 14 August 2019, 19:12   #177
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Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
And this is a prime example of the grandstanding that's going on. You quote me, but don't read what I write. I just explained what it would require of you to understand. Become as good as you "perceive" JoJo to be and then you'll see through his tricks. But, of course, you won't.
And here we have another assumption.
Fact is, I have been to an art high school where entry was extremely restricted and have been pixeling with various programs almost all of my life.
Are you aware of the game I am coding and pixeling right now?
If this assumption of yours about JoJo is as good as the one about me, then I know what to think about your opinions, dude.

Please stop talking shit about people that you don't have proof for.
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Old 14 August 2019, 22:53   #178
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Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
[...]
I'll move it to the OT - General section for now, where it's slightly less visible.
Same for the jojo073 thread.
[...] <- (see here)

Concerning Jojo's thread, excepted Jojo's reaction after the announcement of the competition, I do not understand why his tread has been moved as well to a place where automatic pruning apply. Jojo has expressed his point of view and has quitted EAB (that we agree or not with him or how he did it is not the point here). It was his choice and there was nothing wrong with that.

"Amiga Scene" section was the appropriate place. A stated, "Amiga Scene" is for "Comment and discuss about the latest news, rumours..."
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Old 14 August 2019, 23:05   #179
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Threads under this section are not pruned for 1 year

...it can stay here for now, to take focus off EAB and until all this calms down a bit.

I can move it elsewhere in say 3 months time or whatever.
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Old 15 August 2019, 03:31   #180
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If watching those misleading videos makes you think that is "normal", to get almost all your line placements in their final position the first try and to do a similar thing at the shading stage, then you're doing yourself a great disservice and is the reason why you continue to have a "I can't" attitude.

Precisely right that a lot of ground work is required - exactly what is missing from those staged videos. Take away the photo and he's got nowhere to go (nowhere to start either).

Yet it's the photo-based artwork people are most impressed with (because it sure isn't the GUI "Graphical User Interface" or the animations that people are envious of), so when I say, believe me, you can do the same thing, I'm met with rudeness instead.

Excuse me if I remain skeptical if you claim that you are as good as you "perceive" or praise JoJo073 to be, and yet still can't figure out how he gets from A to B in a highly uncommon way, while also ignoring the vast differences in quality compared to his non-photo based work.

By the time you do eventually get it, JoJo073 may have improved enough without the need to stick to only photos and show real talent throughout ALL his work, in which case I'll praise him appropriately. Until then, get real.
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