I think my thoughts around emulation are changing

[Weasel Fierce]

So I want to preface that I do not have any strong feelings about emulation or hardware being better or worse in a grand sense. Im just kind of clearing up my own thoughts.

I was watching one of Retro Recipes videos this week about how these systems are slowly dwindling away and I got to thinking that I should have a back up if the miggy kicks the bucket, so I set up Classic WB on a spare Mac Mini for an emulated A4000 system and started loading it up with the stuff, games and demos I wanted.

Obviously emulation is easier in a lot of ways, especially transferring files. You get stuff like save states and so on.

But what really stood out was the display. Now, I know its not exactly perfect. But neither is my current display for my actual Amiga. I have tried 3 different monitors all through a RGB-to-VGA adapter. All are passable but flawed. I've tried 4 different external devices, all of which had problems. I've seen two Indivision systems in person, both of which were not exactly accurate either.

All of the above solutions were usable, some were even quite good, but they were not that razor sharp pixel look of a 1084. Emulation though looks closer to that than any of those solutions have for me. I ended up booting up a bunch of games I'd played recently just to kind of compare.

The real worry of course is that when the amiga kicks the bucket, it may be a 50 dollar repair or it may be hundreds of dollars. If it goes toast, second hand prices are in the many hundreds of dollars now, especially if it takes the accelerator board with it.

I enjoy the feel of the real hardware and using the peripherals plugged into it. But do I enjoy it enough to blow 500+ bucks if it dies? Probably not.

I don't know. I'm going to spend a month I think just using the emulated system and then see what I miss and what I don't before deciding what to use as the primary.

What are your thoughts? Did you have the same struggle? Do you currently?

[tero]

My view on emulation changed a bit over the years. 10 years ago i mostly used emulation for stuff i couldn't do on the real thing. For example i never had an Amiga with rtg, emulation is just great for that.

Nowadays i mostly use emulation, as you said it's easier and also faster. I still use my Amiga but only for testing stuff and playing some games. There are a few games that are easier on the real thing. I get more points in pinball games and some racing games are harder to win in emulation.

When it comes to alternatives (minimig, vampire, pimiga and those others) i haven't found one i like yet.

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by tero

My view on emulation changed a bit over the years. 10 years ago i mostly used emulation for stuff i couldn't do on the real thing. For example i never had an Amiga with rtg, emulation is just great for that.

Nowadays i mostly use emulation, as you said it's easier and also faster. I still use my Amiga but only for testing stuff and playing some games. There are a few games that are easier on the real thing. I get more points in pinball games and some racing games are harder to win in emulation.

When it comes to alternatives (minimig, vampire, pimiga and those others) i haven't found one i like yet.

The alternatives are cool, I have a pimiga set up, but they all seem to come with some caveat so none are the perfect answer I suppose

[tero]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

The alternatives are cool, I have a pimiga set up, but they all seem to come with some caveat so none are the perfect answer I suppose

Pimiga is 'just' emulation but on slower/limited hardware. Problem is it still feels like emulation so i rather do that on my computer instead, it gives me more options, more speed etc.

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by tero

Pimiga is 'just' emulation but on slower/limited hardware. Problem is it still feels like emulation so i rather do that on my computer instead, it gives me more options, more speed etc.

For sure. Its nice to have the "computer in a keyboard" feel with the 400 so I like it in that sense, but you are right, you don't really gain anything.

Its also very crashy and messy.

[TCD]

I got an Amiga 500 over ten years ago after using WinUAE for more than five years. Using a real Competition Pro is great, but actual loading times are not. You need a CRT if you want proper nostalgia. Long story short: For me the real hardware is not necessary to enjoy the games I used to play. I get that it's different for everyone though.

[Megalomaniac]

I tend towards real hardware for consoles and emulation for computers, although I have got a (temperamental) real C64 up and running. I bought a second-hand ST not so long ago and it died on me within weeks, my old Amigas don't work now either, yet consoles tend to last really well whether they're used heavily or stored well or not. Money is an issue right now, alas.

[Korban]

I use a 22 inch crt diamondtron tube display and have set up screenmodes to that match each and every Amiga native screenmode along with maximum overscan versions (along with "standard" modes for rtg).
Muuuuuch better display than a 1084 could ever even dream of, but it requires a good/flexible display and no adapters/converters. I dont think this is an option for a Mac these days.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Emulation all the way. I have all my original gear still, but just prefer emulation for ease.

Just recently been using the Dolphin GameCube emulator and cannot believe how easy it is to use (plus FlyCast for Dreamcast - also great for Sega Naomi games that MAME does not run)

[gimbal]

I have said it before and I'll say it again: I don't allow myself real hardware because I can't maintain it. Only people willing and able to maintain the hardware should get real hardware. I'd just use it up until it breaks.

So for me it is emulation and emulation only.

[nikosidis]

For me it is no emulation. It is only the real thing with 95% CRT use. Rgb2hdmi with my Pana.. plasma is quite good. Best digital screen I seen on Amiga.

Before, here in Norway we had a guy that could repair retro computers. After he quit I had to learn it myself.

[manossg]

I prefer the real thing and only sometimes use emulation (for save states or control remapping). A crt monitor or a Tomahawk joystick contribute to the real thing experience immensely. Having said that, I know that my theC64 is essentially emulation, but it feels so close to the real thing with the keyboard and the overall breadbin look and feel, that I don't feel the quasi-"meh"ness caused by emulation.

[Karlos]

I think of emulation as a useful productivity tool. For example, working on the AB3D2 overhaul is much simplified by being able to run the game in UAE (I've not yet had to use the debugger but knowing it's there is a boon). Not just for assembling the game code, but to run the editor suite in for working on my game mod. Especially the latter, where the directory in which the mod lives is now a git checkout on the host filesystem.

It was all a lot more difficult and error prone on the real machine, which can now be used for testing the final product.

[phx]

Emulation is nice for testing and can be invaluable for debugging. It's also very convenient to quickly play a game in the required configuration.

But as a developer I lack any motivation to write programs for an artificial platform which only exists in emulation. It makes no sense to me. Which means when my last real hardware dies it's probably over…

[Anubis]

Even I collect consoles and still have an A1200, I prefer emulation for simple reasons - cleaner, easier to maintain and still getting updates and expanding without me spending hundreds of dollars to keep up.

For Amiga I mostly emulate on PC (WinUAE for manual loading, FS-UAE with Launchbox for once click selection) but more and more I find myself using MiSTer FPGA as default Amiga setup. (loaded with WB 3.2, some selected WHDLoad games and bunch of ADFs, also have A500+/A600 setup and one A500 with modified kick start to include IDE to enable HD compatibility on minimig) I tried PiMiga on RPi 400, but find it buggy and never liked too huge selection and not knowing where is what and how to modify it to to my needs.

As someone who likes to try emulators, I have setups on everything I could emulate Amiga, from original xBox to PS Vita. Sometimes I find myself spending more time making things work then playing games.

[gimbal]

(okay okay, also emulation is cheap)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Anubis

As someone who likes to try emulators, I have setups on everything I could emulate Amiga, from original xBox to PS Vita. Sometimes I find myself spending more time making things work then playing games.

I used to be like that too. Now I just go the 'minimal resistance' route: Get things working with the least bit of effort

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by gimbal

(okay okay, also emulation is cheap)

Not really, both of us spend hundred(s) of dollars on emulation and FPGA. Mister, A500 mini, RPi ...

[Korban]

Was the point of the original post even written with the idea of "real" vs "emulation" in mind?
That's not how I read it, nor how I responded with my earlier post.
Somewhere during the course of the responses though people seem to have changed it to a vs. thing.

As far as Im concerned neither are better, theyre just different.
There's charm in running directly on limited hardware, but also appeal in having hardware resources literally hundreds of times that of anything the original hardware is capable of.
Given the right hardware, display, and set-up they can be nigh on indistinguishable sans the extra speed available to emulation.

[Weasel Fierce]

Definitely not meant as a "fight about what is better" discussion no. Intrigued to hear peoples thoughts though as its something Im kinda wondering about, especially what happens when my system eventually dies.