Amiga 3000 won't see partition (long...!)

[Zorro]

Hello all!

I am resurrecting an Amiga 3000 desktop. It has the stock 68030 w/2MB Chip and 8MB FAST. The battery was removed from the motherboard a long time ago and there is no damage. Using HDToolbox, there is an internal HD partitioned as:

WB_2.x
WB_1.3
Work
Data

DEVS: has three (3) Kickstart files:

Kickstart
Kickstart.204
Kickstart.31

On initial boot, if I do nothing, I get yellow-gold text in the middle of my screen that says "Loading Kickstart 2.x..." and then flashes "Rebooting now..." and the machine boots into Workbench 3.1. When I click "About..." it shows:

Kickstart 40.55
Workbench 39.29

When I hold down both mouse buttons on initial boot, I get the choice to boot into either 1.3 or 2.1. If I select 1.3, the machine crashes (with a pretty blue and orange screen!). If I select 2.1, I boot into *3.1* (WB 39.29).

When the machine boots to workbench, the icons are:

RAM
Work
Data
WB_3.x

Using HDToolbox, shows me that there should be another partition called "WB_1.3", and it is selected as "bootable" with a priority of 0. This partition is not showing up on the Workbench and doesn't seem to be accessible.

I would like to copy a Workbench 1.3 floppy to this partition, but I can't see it anywhere except in HDToolbox. It doesn't even show up in the Early Startup Menu (Only DF0: and WB_2.x: do).

My two questions:

1. Why is HDToolbox seeing my first partition label as WB_2.x, yet it shows up as WB_3.x on my Workbench? I checked my startup-sequence and assigns and I can't see where this is happening anywhere. (Not that important as it seems to be working properly).

2. Why can't I get to the WB_1.3 partition *AT ALL*? And how do I correct this?

thanks everyone!

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Zorro

1. Why is HDToolbox seeing my first partition label as WB_2.x, yet it shows up as WB_3.x on my Workbench? I checked my startup-sequence and assigns and I can't see where this is happening anywhere. (Not that important as it seems to be working properly).

Each drive in AmigaDOS has two names: a device name (for example DH0) and a volume name (for example Workbench). In case of a removable drive like a floppy drive this is clear: the device is the drive and the volume is the medium.

For a harddrive which is not removable it does not make much sense, but still the concept is the same: the partition in HDToolbox is the device and the name you enter when you format it is the volume. Only the volume names are shown on the workbench.

So in your case WB_2.x is the device name. It has to be named this way because the A3000's firmware only finds the Kickstart if it is stored on this partition, even if Kicktart is version 3.0 or higher.

WB_3.x is the volume name of the same partition. You could as well call it Workbench or System or whatever you like.

2. Why can't I get to the WB_1.3 partition *AT ALL*? And how do I correct this?

I cannot answer this because I never had an A3000. I guess it is a feature of the A3000's firmware. If you select 1.3 from the firmware menu, it loads Kickstart from this partition and disables the WB_2.x partition. If you select 2.x, it is the other way round, that's why you never saw it yet.

You probably have to select 1.3 and then boot from floppy to make this partition visible and repair it.

Perhaps it does not need to be repaired, you might only have to disable the accelerator. I think that 1.3 does not run on a 68030.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by thomas

Each drive in AmigaDOS has two names: a device name (for example DH0) and a volume name (for example Workbench). In case of a removable drive like a floppy drive this is clear: the device is the drive and the volume is the medium.

For a harddrive which is not removable it does not make much sense, but still the concept is the same: the partition in HDToolbox is the device and the name you enter when you format it is the volume. Only the volume names are shown on the workbench.

So in your case WB_2.x is the device name. It has to be named this way because the A3000's firmware only finds the Kickstart if it is stored on this partition, even if Kicktart is version 3.0 or higher.

WB_3.x is the volume name of the same partition. You could as well call it Workbench or System or whatever you like.

Makes sense to me, thanks for the explanation! When I type "assign" into the shell window, at the bottom it does list "WB_2.x" as an assign so that must be what is going on.

As for the rest of it - the A3000 has a 68030 as a standard processor - not an accelerator card. Though I was wondering - how would I repair the partition?

thanks again!

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Zorro

When I type "assign" into the shell window, at the bottom it does list "WB_2.x" as an assign so that must be what is going on.

Actually it lists it as a device. An assign is always an assignment, i.e. a logical device name assigned to a destination directory. The lower part of the listing shows physical device names, not assigns.

If you enter the Info command, it will show you the physical device names along with the associated volume names.

[alexh]

You have a superkickstart ROM, also known as Kickstart 1.4

It loads the kickstart data from floppy disk or hard disk. The kickstart data goes into RAM and then using the 68030 MMU it performs a "maprom" function. (It must be the on board 68030. You cannot have an accelerator with Kickstart 1.4 ROMs)

The two device names (partitions) it will load from are :

WB_2.x
WB_1.3

This must be the device name and not the volume name.

The file must also have the correct file name and be in the correct location in that partition.

E.G.

WB_2.x:devs/Kickstart
WB_1.3:devs/Kickstart

You can use a superkickstart 3.1 file instead of 2.1 or 2.04. It must also be named WB_2.x:devs/Kickstart

From memory, Kickstart1.4 will hide the device you are not using. (i.e. you cannot see the WB_1.3 device when you've booted using WB_2.x and vice versa)

I think the only way for you to fix your Workbench 1.3 partition (without putting your hard drive in another computer with SCSI) is to use a Superkickstart floppy disk. To do this you will need a floppy disk, the A3000 Superkickstart 1.3 file (send me a PM) and this program :

http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/MakeSuperDisk

After you have made the disk. Boot with it in the drive and you will get the Kickstart selector menu the same as normal but now you should be able to select 1.3 and boot successfully. (Even if it is just to the kickstart screen). Once in kicstart 1.3 you will be able to use Workbench 1.3 disks to re-install workbench 1.3 and put the 1.3 Superkickstart file in place as devs:/Kickstart

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by alexh

The file must also have the correct file name and be in the correct location in that partition.

E.G.

WB_2.x:devs/Kickstart
WB_1.3:devs/Kickstart

I have 3 (three) different Kickstart files in m WB_2.x:devs/ drawer. They are labelled "Kickstart", "Kickstart.204" and "Kickstart.13". Can I use these. or is it possible that they are corrupt somehow?

Originally Posted by alexh

From memory, Kickstart1.4 will hide the device you are not using. (i.e. you cannot see the WB_1.3 device when you've booted using WB_2.x and vice versa)

Makes sense to me. I have a vague memory of being able to boot into 1.3 from this machine, but that was years (and many Amigas!) ago, so my memory may be faulty.

Originally Posted by alexh

I think the only way for you to fix your Workbench 1.3 partition (without putting your hard drive in another computer with SCSI) is to use a Superkickstart floppy disk. To do this you will need a floppy disk, the A3000 Superkickstart 1.3 file (send me a PM) and this program :

http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/MakeSuperDisk

PM sent. Thank you!

Originally Posted by thomas

Actually it lists it as a device. An assign is always an assignment, i.e. a logical device name assigned to a destination directory. The lower part of the listing shows physical device names, not assigns.

If you enter the Info command, it will show you the physical device names along with the associated volume names.

Thanks! Will try this later today. It's been a LONG time since I touched an Amiga or AmigaDOS, I don't remember all of the command specifics.

Thank you for your help.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Zorro

I have 3 (three) different Kickstart files in m WB_2.x:devs/ drawer. They are labelled "Kickstart", "Kickstart.204" and "Kickstart.13". Can I use these. or is it possible that they are corrupt somehow?

You can only use one at a time. They have to have the same file name.

Kickstart = Kickstart 3.1
Kickstart.13 = Kickstart 1.3
Kickstart.204 = Kickstart 2.04

That means you've already got all three versions!

If you wanted to use Kickstart.204 for example you would rename it Kickstart and reboot and you'd have kickstart 2.04

If you want to make a Superkickstart floppy disk to try to recover your WB_1.3 partition you can use the program I mentioned before and the file "Kickstart.13"

[Zorro]

OK, here is an update:

First, I was in error when I listed the Kickstart files in Devs:

They are:

Kickstart
Kickstart.204
Kickstart.31

I think in my last post I said the last one was "Kickstart.13". It's not. It's labelled .31

ALSO - all of the Kickstart files are the EXACT SAME size, when using the list command. they all are 526848. Is that normal? I would think that different Kickstarts would be different sizes...?

At any rate, I am now attempting to use MakeSuperKickstart. Will report back when I have success (or not...).

On another note, I finally managed to get an old SCSI cd-rom hooked up to the Ami, so now I can at least transfer files from my Mac Pro/Macbook to the A3000. And using this CD-ROM, and a disk of ASIM-CDFS, I have installed OS 3.5. I need to find (or order) 3.9 next.

thanks

[Jope]

It is normal for all kickstarts 2.0 onwards to be 512k.. The A3000 super kickstarts are also a bit special, they have some bonus code tacked on, so they are a bit larger than 512k in reality.

Same goes with the 1.3 superkick file, it needs the bonus too.

You can find the superkick disks in the TOSEC collection (search archive.org), write the superkick ADF to disk and then cold boot with both mouse buttons held down, insert the disk and select to load 1.3 from floppy.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Jope

It is normal for all kickstarts 2.0 onwards to be 512k.. The A3000 super kickstarts are also a bit special, they have some bonus code tacked on, so they are a bit larger than 512k in reality.

Same goes with the 1.3 superkick file, it needs the bonus too.

You can find the superkick disks in the TOSEC collection (search archive.org), write the superkick ADF to disk and then cold boot with both mouse buttons held down, insert the disk and select to load 1.3 from floppy.

OK, I used the MakeSuperKickstart program, and according to the program I do *not* have a 1.3 Kickstart. Soooo...I guess I'll scrounge for it. I'll be honest - I'm only doing this because "I Can" I don't have a real need for 1.3 at this point.

Another question: Can I go and purchase the 3.1 ROMs (physical chips) from somewhere like AmigaKit or Vesalia and install them in my A3000? I assume this would eliminate the need for a Devs:Kickstart file.

Thanks!

[Jope]

Yes, you can. If your 1.4 ROMs are on a separate riser card, you must swap the new chips onto the riser and plug that back into the motherboard.

If the ROMs are directly on the motherboard, then you can just plug the new chips directly onto the motherboard.

[alexh]

I've sent you a PM

Originally Posted by Zorro

Another question: Can I go and purchase the 3.1 ROMs (physical chips) from somewhere like AmigaKit or Vesalia and install them in my A3000? I assume this would eliminate the need for a Devs:Kickstart file. Thanks!

Yes and you would save 512Kbytes of RAM which is being used for the MAPROM. But it would not help you boot your Workbench1.3 partition.

Unless you are going to fit an accelerator (which would force you to upgrade) I wouldn't bother with a KS3.1 ROM.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by alexh

I've sent you a PM


Yes and you would save 512Kbytes of RAM which is being used for the MAPROM. But it would not help you boot your Workbench1.3 partition.

Unless you are going to fit an accelerator (which would force you to upgrade) I wouldn't bother with a KS3.1 ROM.

Interesting that you don't suggest a 3.1 ROM. I take it that means you wouldn't bother with OS 3.5/3.9...? May I ask your take on keeping the A3000 at 2.x? I may just do that (I'm setting it up primarily as a nostalgia gaming machine, but I do love taking these old machines as far as they can go). Of course, if I want to get nostalgic enough, then 1.3/2.x would be the way to go.


And speaking of RAM - I just found my DKB 3128, fully populated...so RAM isn't an issue any more.

thanks!

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Jope

Yes, you can. If your 1.4 ROMs are on a separate riser card, you must swap the new chips onto the riser and plug that back into the motherboard.

If the ROMs are directly on the motherboard, then you can just plug the new chips directly onto the motherboard.

I believe that I have the ROM Tower....when I look at the motherboard, there is a small circuit board plugged in upside-down where the ROM chips should go. I haven't unplugged the circuit board yet to check. I'm slowly getting familiar with the A3000....


thanks!

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by alexh

I've sent you a PM


Yes and you would save 512Kbytes of RAM which is being used for the MAPROM. But it would not help you boot your Workbench1.3 partition.

Unless you are going to fit an accelerator (which would force you to upgrade) I wouldn't bother with a KS3.1 ROM.

OK, I realize I am replying again, but I just wondered....

Will an accelerator require 3.1? I am always looking out for a 3640 card...

Thanks for taking the time to answer! You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Interesting that you don't suggest a 3.1 ROM. I take it that means you wouldn't bother with OS 3.5/3.9...?

You effectively have (and are using) a 3.1 ROM.

You can install use OS3.5/3.9 on your WB_2.x. Just don't loose the file devs:Kickstart

Originally Posted by Zorro

Will an accelerator require 3.1?

Yes the Kickstart 1.4 ROMs require the 68030 MMU.

Originally Posted by Zorro

I am always looking out for a 3640 card...

Be warned. You will need at least a v3.1 A3640 board.

I also believe you will need to upgrade your buster chip to rev11.

And if it runs unstable you may also have to potentially change your ROM/RAM timings jumpers.

[Zorro]

UPDATE:

Well, thanks to some help from alexh, I found a SuperKickstart 1.3 for my Amiga 3000. And...I found myself looking at the familiar blue and orange screen! My WB_1.3 partition was EMPTY (which is why it wouldn't boot...). I copied my WB 1.3 floppy to the partition and then the KS file to Devs:Kickstart, and viola! Now I can boot 1.3 from my internal hard drive. Just in time too, as my Workbench 1.3 floppy died...as well as the backup copy.

I also noticed that while booting KS/WB 1.3 from floppy, that ALL of my partitions are visible on the Workbench (including WB_2.x). When I boot from the hard drive, only the Work: and Data: partitions are visible - and those appear to be empty. They were formatted under 2.x/3.x so I assume that 1.3 isn't able to see the data on them....? They are both formatted with FFS.

thanks for the help everyone!