Clone-A presentation.

ppill · 09 March 2007, 21:33

Check this out here: http://ami.ga/indexe.htm

Our project "Clone-A" will be demonstrated on saturday march 31st, 2007 in Aachen, Germany. We will show the prototype of our Amiga-chipset clone at Schloß Rahe Business Center from 12:00 to 4:00pm. Clone-A will ultimately be put into a single low-cost chip, which can be used in a laptop or desktop computer, but also in smaller mobile units and toys. The chip contains the processor, accelerated graphics and sound. To operate the chip, only a small amount of memory is needed. There's a huge number of free and commercial programs and about 5000 games for the Amiga platform. The games can compete with today's consoles in multimedia presentation and gaming fun.
After a demonstration that we have prepared (about 30 minutes), visitors will have the chance to put Clone-A to the test: We're inviting visitors to bring especially critical software, which will demonstrate the compatibility of Clone-A to a real Amiga. Should you bring a program (floppy disk) that works better on an Amiga 500 with 1MB of chipmem and a 68000 processor at 7MHz, we will honour your efforts with a voucher for 100,- EUR for products out of our portfolio.

There is no entrance fee for Schloß Rahe Business Center, and there's free parking for visitors.

keropi · 09 March 2007, 21:57

excellent news!

kriz · 09 March 2007, 22:18

Extremely cool stuff! And AGA support also coming, wow..

alexh · 09 March 2007, 23:45

Knowing the undocumented bits of the Amiga I am sure that Toni could win that 100 euro voucher.

musashi5150 · 09 March 2007, 23:52

I'd like to see that

keropi · 09 March 2007, 23:58

I bet you would, u h4x0r!

Anubis · 23 March 2007, 16:51

Another week to wait.

Will someone from Germany check this out and inform us??

rsn8887 · 23 March 2007, 18:07

Man I cannot wait for the Amiga DTV...
If Jens Schoenfeld is responsible, let's hope they will put in usb-stick or flash-card support, to put all your favourite adf's on there. And two old school joyports... bliss!

But then he might just license it to some company that will produce a crappy dtv toy stick with no ports whatsoever... still...

alexh · 23 March 2007, 19:55

Waste of time and money if you ask me.

And as to licensing it to other companies... without getting the blessing of Amiga Inc. I would imagine that any interest in it would be seriously curbed.

cv643d · 23 March 2007, 21:49

I dont see a Mini-ITX Amiga clone as a waste of time and money

alexh · 23 March 2007, 21:51

Which is why you dont work in electronics or sales.

cv643d · 23 March 2007, 22:18

You know, Clone A wont only be a Mini-ITX board. It could be a joystick-Amiga to. And if you work in sales you will know a Joystick-Amiga with some licenced games will sell a lot

Minimig was made by one man and it is very capable now, he can run demos and games on it which is great for a one man team. I think Clone A team is two people or more.

I read something from Jens about the licensing but I forgot what he said on Amigaworld, do not think it was anything negative though!

alexh · 23 March 2007, 22:39

Without being every able to call it Amiga, use any logo's or branding... you think they will?

viddi · 24 March 2007, 10:54

We, as a classics community NEED such a new Amiga.

I´d like to use my real Amiga ´till the end of my life but she will die sooner or later.

Just imagine this kind of replacement-Amiga (as an A4000 version) integrated in an original A4000 case.

alexh · 24 March 2007, 13:49

They cannot do an AGA version for a few more years. The AGA patents are still valid and owned by Amiga Inc.

OCS patents have lapsed.

rsn8887 · 24 March 2007, 19:42

Even just concerning money, I don't think it is a waste to do the clone-A at all. Remember how many of those C64 DTV sticks they sold? they sold like fivehundred thousand in no time, and then made some more...
huge success. I see lots of money down the road
for the Clone-A project.

Captain_ Kal · 24 March 2007, 19:51

Not to mention the modding opportunities for joystick type toys. I saw once a sega megadrive joystick toy, being converted into a real megadrive. But I would like to see something like the msx FPGA board, (or system on chip solution), with current monitor support.

alexh · 24 March 2007, 20:13

If the C64 DTV was such a success why isnt it still onsale?

And why could I buy 20 at below manufacture cost price (less than £5 each from Argos).

Why did Jeri the author hardly make any money at all?

Why did the first company almost go bankrupt?

All the previous ones were made / sold with original manufacturer licensing, so they could use the name, logo etc. The could also license the "in house" games at the same time. PLUS they had wide appeal in the US.

Retro-Nerd · 24 March 2007, 20:26

I'm pretty sure Jens Schoenfeld don't give his patent to crappy Amiga joystick maker. There could be amiga laptops or even handhelds in small numbers.

I love the Individual Computers products, only time will tell what happens.

alexh · 24 March 2007, 21:13

Jens cannot patent anything. All patents were owned by Amiga Inc. but for OCS they will have expired (in about 2004/2005).

I doubt he could even sell the design under license in the same way that an original peice of IP could be sold. Selling reverse engineered, cloned hardware without a license from Amiga Inc. on a world wide scale would be somewhat a grey area.

Integrating a cloned 68000 CPU would again be a grey area, they are still sold by Freescale and their instruction set is copyrighted rather than patented (Much longer lifespan). I have seen some teams try to sell 68k IP but the implementations are all very poor. The fact they are able to do not seek legal action could mean that Freescale cannot be bothered, or it could mean that they are ok with the idea.

What I think he could do is sell his own chips (but it costs a lot of money these days for a MASK set) so I guess he'll work for whatever company stumps up the cash, perhaps for a cut of the profits.

All pure speculation.

09 March 2007, 21:33	#1
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	Clone-A presentation. Check this out here: http://ami.ga/indexe.htm Our project "Clone-A" will be demonstrated on saturday march 31st, 2007 in Aachen, Germany. We will show the prototype of our Amiga-chipset clone at Schloß Rahe Business Center from 12:00 to 4:00pm. Clone-A will ultimately be put into a single low-cost chip, which can be used in a laptop or desktop computer, but also in smaller mobile units and toys. The chip contains the processor, accelerated graphics and sound. To operate the chip, only a small amount of memory is needed. There's a huge number of free and commercial programs and about 5000 games for the Amiga platform. The games can compete with today's consoles in multimedia presentation and gaming fun. After a demonstration that we have prepared (about 30 minutes), visitors will have the chance to put Clone-A to the test: We're inviting visitors to bring especially critical software, which will demonstrate the compatibility of Clone-A to a real Amiga. Should you bring a program (floppy disk) that works better on an Amiga 500 with 1MB of chipmem and a 68000 processor at 7MHz, we will honour your efforts with a voucher for 100,- EUR for products out of our portfolio. There is no entrance fee for Schloß Rahe Business Center, and there's free parking for visitors.

24 March 2007, 21:13	#20
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Jens cannot patent anything. All patents were owned by Amiga Inc. but for OCS they will have expired (in about 2004/2005). I doubt he could even sell the design under license in the same way that an original peice of IP could be sold. Selling reverse engineered, cloned hardware without a license from Amiga Inc. on a world wide scale would be somewhat a grey area. Integrating a cloned 68000 CPU would again be a grey area, they are still sold by Freescale and their instruction set is copyrighted rather than patented (Much longer lifespan). I have seen some teams try to sell 68k IP but the implementations are all very poor. The fact they are able to do not seek legal action could mean that Freescale cannot be bothered, or it could mean that they are ok with the idea. What I think he could do is sell his own chips (but it costs a lot of money these days for a MASK set) so I guess he'll work for whatever company stumps up the cash, perhaps for a cut of the profits. All pure speculation. Last edited by alexh; 24 March 2007 at 21:28.

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09 March 2007, 21:57	#2
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	excellent news!

09 March 2007, 22:18	#3
kriz Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: No(R)Way Age: 41 Posts: 3,188	Extremely cool stuff! And AGA support also coming, wow..

09 March 2007, 23:45	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Knowing the undocumented bits of the Amiga I am sure that Toni could win that 100 euro voucher.

09 March 2007, 23:52	#5
musashi5150 move.w #$4489,$dff07e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolk, UK Age: 42 Posts: 2,351	I'd like to see that

09 March 2007, 23:58	#6
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I bet you would, u h4x0r!

23 March 2007, 16:51	#7
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,059	Another week to wait. Will someone from Germany check this out and inform us??

23 March 2007, 18:07	#8
rsn8887 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,058	Man I cannot wait for the Amiga DTV... If Jens Schoenfeld is responsible, let's hope they will put in usb-stick or flash-card support, to put all your favourite adf's on there. And two old school joyports... bliss! But then he might just license it to some company that will produce a crappy dtv toy stick with no ports whatsoever... still...

23 March 2007, 19:55	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Waste of time and money if you ask me. And as to licensing it to other companies... without getting the blessing of Amiga Inc. I would imagine that any interest in it would be seriously curbed.

23 March 2007, 21:49	#10
cv643d Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 762	I dont see a Mini-ITX Amiga clone as a waste of time and money

23 March 2007, 21:51	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Which is why you dont work in electronics or sales.

23 March 2007, 22:18	#12
cv643d Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 762	You know, Clone A wont only be a Mini-ITX board. It could be a joystick-Amiga to. And if you work in sales you will know a Joystick-Amiga with some licenced games will sell a lot Minimig was made by one man and it is very capable now, he can run demos and games on it which is great for a one man team. I think Clone A team is two people or more. I read something from Jens about the licensing but I forgot what he said on Amigaworld, do not think it was anything negative though!

23 March 2007, 22:39	#13
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Without being every able to call it Amiga, use any logo's or branding... you think they will?

24 March 2007, 10:54	#14
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,007	We, as a classics community NEED such a new Amiga. I´d like to use my real Amiga ´till the end of my life but she will die sooner or later. Just imagine this kind of replacement-Amiga (as an A4000 version) integrated in an original A4000 case.

24 March 2007, 13:49	#15
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	They cannot do an AGA version for a few more years. The AGA patents are still valid and owned by Amiga Inc. OCS patents have lapsed.

24 March 2007, 19:42	#16
rsn8887 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,058	Even just concerning money, I don't think it is a waste to do the clone-A at all. Remember how many of those C64 DTV sticks they sold? they sold like fivehundred thousand in no time, and then made some more... huge success. I see lots of money down the road for the Clone-A project.

24 March 2007, 19:51	#17
Captain_ Kal Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Age: 54 Posts: 157	Not to mention the modding opportunities for joystick type toys. I saw once a sega megadrive joystick toy, being converted into a real megadrive. But I would like to see something like the msx FPGA board, (or system on chip solution), with current monitor support.

24 March 2007, 20:13	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	If the C64 DTV was such a success why isnt it still onsale? And why could I buy 20 at below manufacture cost price (less than £5 each from Argos). Why did Jeri the author hardly make any money at all? Why did the first company almost go bankrupt? All the previous ones were made / sold with original manufacturer licensing, so they could use the name, logo etc. The could also license the "in house" games at the same time. PLUS they had wide appeal in the US.

24 March 2007, 20:26	#19
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	I'm pretty sure Jens Schoenfeld don't give his patent to crappy Amiga joystick maker. There could be amiga laptops or even handhelds in small numbers. I love the Individual Computers products, only time will tell what happens.

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