Midwinter II Flames of Freedom WHDLoad v1.2 version - "problems" with save

[pkrcel]

Hi there,
I am trying to play the game in subject with FS-UAE, on a win7 machine. I am using the built-in zipped WHDLoad facility in FS-UAE, I did not install an actual AmigaOS, ClassicWB or whatever else.

The game works fine and FS-UAE works even better, thou I have pesky problem with saving the campaign.

The game actually saves, in fact I can reset the amig in emulator (both soft and hard) and having WHLoad load again I cal then load the recent save.

But when I turn off (e.g. close the window) of FS-UAE I am not guarranteeed that the save will persist (meaning the state of the campaign disk).

It sometimes persists through runs, in fact I was able to liberate my first island and I can get on my campaign mfrom there, but I already tried a couple time to start a new mission, save after a while, close FS-UAE.....and when I get back to it I still have to choose my 2nd mission.

I can't really track down what could be the cause (FS-UAE managing the temp HD....Midwonter II itself....etc..), but I was wondering if MAY be a known issue of sort?

Thanks for any suggestion to make it work.

[FrodeSolheim]

Hi pkrcel,

Some WHDLoad slaves delay saving until the WHDLoad slave quits. Of course, I noticed that you said it works when you reset the Amiga, but still... -Could you try to "quit FS-UAE" using the WHDLoad quit key (the one mentioned in the WHDLoad splash screen). Does that consistently save the game correctly?

[pkrcel]

Hello there, I am unable to try at the moment, but I'd like to thank you since now that you mention it, when "resetting" I may have used the 'ptrscr' key that WHLoad says it's the quit key for that session.

I'll let you know by today.

Thanks again.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by FrodeSolheim

Some WHDLoad slaves delay saving until the WHDLoad slave quits.

Not the slaves do that, it's a WHDLoad option that can be used to either save immediately or only when the patch quits. See the WHDLoad doc for NoWriteCache.

[pkrcel]

That was actually on spot, I believe.

I used the option NOWRITECACHE and surely something had to do with it since I tried a quick save and the emulator went a bit fuzzy.......it went nuts and displayed intermittent frames (like 1 per second).

Too bad it hung up and I had to reset the amiga, this ruined the CAMPAIGN disk I imagine for incomplete write...I haven't thought usign a different campaign disk (through the CUSTOM1 option) and/or backing up the WHDLoad package

Well, I will investigate further and see if I can replicate....

EDIT: Also saving another agent does the same thing with NOWRITECACHE, this time I tried juat waiting patiently, it did ok and saved the agent but went through a lot of glitches. But in the end did it. I don't know if I should use nowritecache with any other option to avoid this?

EDIT2: ...aaand any tips on how could I use the QuiteKey option? I am now sure I haven't used the quiteckey before since it's printscr and I can't use it (it just does screenshots, as expect).

[Retro-Nerd]

* on PC keyboard numPad = Amiga print screen works fine as quitkey in FS-UAE. Don't press the actual print screen key on the PC keyboard. You can also set your own global quitkey. Copy the whdload.prefs file (you find it in the WHDLoad usr.lha archive -> s: subfolder) into the folder of your FS-UAE Launcher.exe, open the file with a text editor and read this, e.g. Quitkey=$59 = Amiga F10 key. Don't forget to remove the ";" at the start of the line.

; global configuration file for WHDLoad
; searched as "S:whdload.prefs"
;
; CLI-Arguments and ToolTypes will overwrite these !
;

;ButtonWait			;wait for button pressed (slave must support this)
;ChipNoCache			;disable cachebility of Chip-Memory
;ConfigDelay=400		;wait to select options in splash window (1/50 seconds)
;CoreDumpPath=T:		;path for coredump files
;DebugKey=$5b			;rawkey code to quit with coredump (debug)
;ExecuteStartup=Execute S:WHDLoad-Startup	;command to execute on WHDLoad startup
;ExecuteCleanup=Execute S:WHDLoad-Cleanup	;command to execute on WHDLoad exit
;Expert				;selects expert mode
;FreezeKey=$5d			;rawkey code to enter HrtMon/TK
;FullChip			;save/restore complete chip memory
;MMU				;use MMU (for 68030)
;NoAutoVec			;ignore unwanted autovector interrupts
;NoFilter			;disable audio filter
;NoFlushMem			;do not flush memory
;NoMemReverse			;do not allocate memory reverse
;NoWriteCache			;disable the disk write cache
;NTSC				;force NTSC viedo mode
;PAL				;force PAL viedo mode
QuitKey=$59			;rawkey code to quit
;ReadDelay=150			;wait after reading from disk (1/50 seconds)
;RestartKey=$5c			;rawkey code to restart
;SavePath=SYS:WHDSaves		;base directory for all saves
;ShowRegs=SYS:Utilities/MuchMore W WL=80 WT=80 WW=582 WH=700	;command for Show Regs
;SplashDelay=200		;time to display splash window (1/50 seconds)
;WriteDelay=150			;wait after saving something to disk (1/50 seconds)

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by pkrcel

Too bad it hung up and I had to reset the amiga,

You should have waited until WHDLoad finished writing the file, since NoWriteCache was enabled it had to do a lot of OS swaps to save the data which needs time.

Originally Posted by pkrcel

EDIT: Also saving another agent does the same thing with NOWRITECACHE, this time I tried juat waiting patiently, it did ok and saved the agent but went through a lot of glitches. But in the end did it. I don't know if I should use nowritecache with any other option to avoid this?

See above, these are no glitches. To avoid these you can disable the NoWriteCache option but then you have to remember to always quit the patch with the quitkey as otherwise nothing will be saved.

[FrodeSolheim]

A bit on the side of this, I have considered adding support for a custom quit action in FS-UAE - especially useful with the online game database. So when quitting / closing FS-UAE, a (specified) Amiga key press would be generated instead to allow WHDLoad to save the data properly (both convenient - and useful since users may not be aware of the need to use the quit key). Of course, there still needs to be a force-quit function in case the slave does not quit as expected (perhaps trying to quit the 2nd time will perform a regular quit).

[pkrcel]

Thanks Retro-Nerd, I was trying to use QUITKEY=$45 on the CLI arguments in FS-UAE and works but then WHDLoad asked me to "insert volume ENV in any drive"...I suppose it does not support QuitKey for some reason (will check the lha on WHDload.de)

Woudl changing the .prefs file in the archive work as the CLI option or maybe changing ANY bit in the archive would screw up any MD5/SHA/whatever check preventing FS-UAE to launche the archive?

Originally Posted by StingRay

You should have waited until WHDLoad finished writing the file, since NoWriteCache was enabled it had to do a lot of OS swaps to save the data which needs time.

I understood that too late, it was a while I was waiting actualy, I tried then as I wrote with the new agent and It worked "fairly quickly", but I fear with campaing it is a bit too long to be practical: I would like to be able to do frequent saves since there are random "Memory Execption" errors thrown at times and in THAT case I lose the time I played..."naturally", there are STILL too long wait times in the game already and besides I still own the original (buried in what was my father's house not so close to my current home), had beaten it on my A500 (I was much more patient at the time) and I am replaying it to scrounge some design ideas on this Classic (....but also for a LOT of nostalgia!!! )

Originally Posted by FrodeSolheim

A bit on the side of this, I have considered adding support for a custom quit action in FS-UAE - especially useful with the online game database. So when quitting / closing FS-UAE, a (specified) Amiga key press would be generated instead to allow WHDLoad to save the data properly (both convenient - and useful since users may not be aware of the need to use the quit key). Of course, there still needs to be a force-quit function in case the slave does not quit as expected (perhaps trying to quit the 2nd time will perform a regular quit).

SOMETHING must be working in this way already because (before me messing up) I was able to save my progresses and I am SURE that I never quit properly WHDLoad through the quitkey....at least not consciusly.

I was sure that resetting the Amiga did properly conserve the saves but now I will have to try a bit further since.....well seems I fooled myself.

One thing I know is that (as stated in the WHDLoad package) the save system in Flames of Freedom is quite convoluted...

Questions: If I would like to backup the "played" WHDLoad package where should I pick that? is the original archive modified by FS-UAE (so that a physical copy of that should suffice?

[Retro-Nerd]

Woudl changing the .prefs file in the archive work as the CLI option or maybe changing ANY bit in the archive would screw up any MD5/SHA/whatever check preventing FS-UAE to launche the archive?

No, the whdload.prefs file needs to be unpacked into the root folder of the FS-UAE Launcher.exe. There is no CRC check in that case. Edit the line via text editor as shown above and save it. Then you have a global quit key which works for all games.

I was trying to use QUITKEY=$45

This is the Escape key, probably not a good idea in emulation but it works fine too as it seems.

[pkrcel]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

This is the Escape key, probably not a good idea in emulation but it works fine too as it seems.

Yep, that was only to try out the option, as I said it does not work properly. I now tried with the '*' on the numpad as you suggested and works like a charm.

I also found out where the disks are saved so I'm able to back up things should I mess up again.

Thanks for the wealth of information.

[Retro-Nerd]

And the save game works now after restart, i assume? Have fun with the game, it's a real classic.

[pkrcel]

They do, I've confirmed all of the observations you guys made in the thread.

I've just timed a normal NOWRITECACHE "during action" save and clocks at about 4 minutes....roughly....

I wasn't expecting such a long time since with writecache the flush before quitting the emulator (pressing '*') takes the time of a quickblink...

I'll have to choose between this nuisance with NOWRITECACHE or the consistent "restart" of WHDLoad (or FS-UAE) thus going into reloading from scratch each time I want to be SURE not to lose my most recent play.

What I am really worried about are the memory exceptions thrown at random that I have not a way to diagnose or fix...I found in this forum that leaving the PRELOAD off should help but I actually got the exception thrown anyway.

[Retro-Nerd]

In emulation you shouldn't worry about ram. Disable preload is no real option, it makes the whole loading painfully slow with additional black flicker.

[FrodeSolheim]

Originally Posted by pkrcel

I was trying to use QUITKEY=$45 on the CLI arguments in FS-UAE and works but then WHDLoad asked me to "insert volume ENV in any drive"...I suppose it does not support QuitKey for some reason (will check the lha on WHDload.de)

ENV: isn't defined in the simple boot system for WHDLoad games. $45 makes the shell try to (first) look up $45 as en environment variable (which translations to a "file" in ENV.

Try decimal instead, QUITKEY=69 should be the same as QUITKEY=$45 (I *think* WHDLoad supports integer arguments in both hex and dec).

[pkrcel]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

In emulation you shouldn't worry about ram. Disable preload is no real option, it makes the whole loading painfully slow with additional black flicker.

Of course I am not concerned about RAM in any way.

The problem is another, I'll try to scrounge that up from the forum so I will add a bit of context but in short it happens sometimes that the program traps a (seemingly random) exception "Memory Fault at <hexadecimal address>" and you're presented the canonical "Ignore, Quit, Restart" Dialog....you can of course restart right away but the unsaved gameplay time is gone to waste and I think that also the uncached writes could be....even thou I haven't explicitly tried that since it's a bit hard to do...

Originally Posted by FrodeSolheim

ENV: isn't defined in the simple boot system for WHDLoad games. $45 makes the shell try to (first) look up $45 as en environment variable (which translations to a "file" in ENV.

I suspected something like this...well actually it was very clear.

Originally Posted by FrodeSolheim

Try decimal instead, QUITKEY=69 should be the same as QUITKEY=$45 (I *think* WHDLoad supports integer arguments in both hex and dec).

I tried decimal but IIRC it chokes out a 'Bad Number' error....will try again later maybe.

[liveevil]

I like the idea of having a global Quit key for WHDLoad (like it was in Gamebase Amiga). What would the raw key code be for F11 ? That way it doesn't effect any Amiga keys and you don't have to remember what the quit key was when starting a WHDLoad slave.

I hope Frode can incorporate this into FS-UAE.

[Retro-Nerd]

What would the raw key code be for F11 ?

It's $4B in Gamebase Amiga. But FS-UAE uses F11 for the Zoom options atm.

[pkrcel]

By the way, to complete the information given in my posts, I was referring to this error that sometimes fires up



And I've read (but I am unable to fined where ) that disbling PRELOAD could help.

It actually doesn't and I guess there are many other ways to try to not have this come up.

To be fair, I've played 3 hrs straight without getting this error anyway. I'm usign the "vanilla" Flames of Freedom WHDLoad v1.2 configuration from OAGD database.

[Retro-Nerd]

I don't think this has something to do with Preload. Should be another bug/issue in the current slave. Create a bugreport here. It will be moved to the mantis bugtracker later (there you need to create an account).