3.1 ROMS for 3000 - red screen...

chiark · 07 October 2008, 16:55

I bought a set of 3.1 roms for my 3000 quite some time ago from ebay, and on trying them, it appears they're faulty. (Red screen, suggesting kickstart checksum error)

They're from Power Computing, are 3000 specific, and are version 40.68.

Is there any way to "repair" these chips, or even reprogram them and moreover does anyone have the appropriate hardware to do so

?

At the moment I'm running my 2.04 originals - I might just skick the 3.1 file seeing as I do have the legitimate roms... What's the best utility for doing this on the 3000 without tieing up the MMU?

Ta luvs!

alphonsus · 07 October 2008, 18:13

Red screen is often a symptom of dodgy power supply to some aspect pf the system - try reseating your new (old) ROM chips and anything else you moved to install them.

My A1200 does the same thing if my accelerator isn't seated properly.

Cleaning ROM chip legs if they haven't been in use for a while?

chiark · 07 October 2008, 19:47

The chips are new, clean and seem in perfect condition physically - should have mentioned that!

The machine works perfectly with the 2.04 chips... Tried reseating repeatedly, etc... No avail! Red = kickstart checksum error but yes, that's not all it could be

alexh · 07 October 2008, 20:12

Perhaps they are the wrong type for your motherboard and you will either need a different type or a "ROM TOWER"

TheCorfiot · 07 October 2008, 20:23

40.68,, mmmm is that not KS 3.1 for the A1200

TC

Toni Wilen · 07 October 2008, 20:24

ROMs must work (at least partially) because checksum code is in ROMs that sets the red screen. Perhaps simple single bit error somewhere..

thomas · 07 October 2008, 21:14

You get the same symptoms (read screen) when you insert 3.1 ROM into an early revision A500 without manipulating the socket. So I'd presume the "ROM tower" approach, too (whatever a ROM tower might be). The chips are probably ok, they just don't match the socket.

rkauer · 07 October 2008, 21:28

Also check if you didn't put the new chips in reversed order (chip 1 on chip 2 place).

thomas · 07 October 2008, 22:58

Quote:

chip 1 on chip 2 place

Then you wouldn't get a red screen, you would get nothing. Red screen means that the ROMs are ok and working, but the checksum is wrong. The code which calculates the checksum is in the ROM. If you had mixed up the chips, there would be no code to do anything.

alexh · 08 October 2008, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

I'd presume the "ROM tower" approach, too (whatever a ROM tower might be).

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/downlo...0_romtower.jpg

The original A3000 boards were designed to take 27C2048/27C220 EPROMs with the standard pinout (not the Mask ROM / 27C400 style pinout) and the ROM tower converts the pinout.

I am not 100% sure on the schematic but I think only a few address lines are swapped.

http://groups.google.ie/group/comp.s...n&dmode=source

thomas · 08 October 2008, 08:38

Quote:

the ROM tower converts the pinout.

I am not 100% sure on the schematic but I think only a few address lines are swapped.

This really sounds similar to the Kick 2.0+ in A500 problem.

chiark · 08 October 2008, 08:40

The machine doesn't have a ROM tower, and I would have thought that that problem would have affected the 2.04 chips too?

I think it really is faulty chips as that's the only difference between a working and non-working machine.

I guess I'll just softkick it for now

.

alexh · 08 October 2008, 09:53

What revision is your A3000 MB?

What are the ROM control jumpers set to? (J150, J151, J180, J181)

http://l8r.net/technical/t-3000-jumpers.shtml

A 3.1 EPROM will be much slower than a 2.04 mask ROM.

What model chips are your 3.1 EPROMS?

Edit: I've found many sources that say if you put 27C400 EPROMS in an A3000 which requires a ROM TOWER you get a red screen.

chiark · 08 October 2008, 21:36

I did jumper the machine for slower access, but didn't change the other jumpers for compatability...

The chips have a sticky label on the top saying
Amiga 3000-0 Rev 40.68
(c) 1993-1997 Amiga Int. Inc
Licensed to power computing ltd
All rights reserved

and underneath
Malaysia
9349DP W (9313AP W on -1 instead of -0)
97964D (97964B on -1 instead of -0)

Rev 8.9 with buster 6, ramsey 04, dmac 02

J180 and 181 on my machine are not jumpers, there's two rows of 3 solder blobs and that's it labels ROMS and a2000 \ a3000

chiark · 08 October 2008, 21:53

Just tried again...

Changing nothing and.... Success?!??!!!

Connection problems, perhaps? I dunno.

But they're working! Happy bunny now

chiark · 08 October 2008, 21:56

*ahem*

Damn. Confession time.

I tried them without the daughter card in first time round.

That'll do it every time. *sheesh*!

tonyyeb · 08 October 2008, 22:10

So you were trying without the daughter card all along? And now with it in it works?

chiark · 08 October 2008, 22:13

Yup. First time around, I thought the daughter card was in but I guess it wasn't - I'm sure I tried it with the daughtercard in but I can't have done

Stripped the machine and tried it again tonight, same red screen, then plugged the daughter card in. Success!

I am a tit.

tonyyeb · 08 October 2008, 22:15

Hey we've all done something similar

- which could be a whole new thread!

chiark · 08 October 2008, 22:22

Looks like I might have spoken too soon - it seems to be randomly crashing with either red screen or yellow screen about 1 in 10 times.

Wonder if it's to do with ROM timing?

07 October 2008, 16:55	#1
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	3.1 ROMS for 3000 - red screen... I bought a set of 3.1 roms for my 3000 quite some time ago from ebay, and on trying them, it appears they're faulty. (Red screen, suggesting kickstart checksum error) They're from Power Computing, are 3000 specific, and are version 40.68. Is there any way to "repair" these chips, or even reprogram them and moreover does anyone have the appropriate hardware to do so ? At the moment I'm running my 2.04 originals - I might just skick the 3.1 file seeing as I do have the legitimate roms... What's the best utility for doing this on the 3000 without tieing up the MMU? Ta luvs!

08 October 2008, 09:53	#13
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,400	What revision is your A3000 MB? What are the ROM control jumpers set to? (J150, J151, J180, J181) http://l8r.net/technical/t-3000-jumpers.shtml A 3.1 EPROM will be much slower than a 2.04 mask ROM. What model chips are your 3.1 EPROMS? Edit: I've found many sources that say if you put 27C400 EPROMS in an A3000 which requires a ROM TOWER you get a red screen. Last edited by alexh; 08 October 2008 at 10:03.

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07 October 2008, 18:13	#2
alphonsus Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Age: 50 Posts: 181	Red screen is often a symptom of dodgy power supply to some aspect pf the system - try reseating your new (old) ROM chips and anything else you moved to install them. My A1200 does the same thing if my accelerator isn't seated properly. Cleaning ROM chip legs if they haven't been in use for a while?

07 October 2008, 19:47	#3
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	The chips are new, clean and seem in perfect condition physically - should have mentioned that! The machine works perfectly with the 2.04 chips... Tried reseating repeatedly, etc... No avail! Red = kickstart checksum error but yes, that's not all it could be

07 October 2008, 20:12	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,400	Perhaps they are the wrong type for your motherboard and you will either need a different type or a "ROM TOWER"

07 October 2008, 20:23	#5
TheCorfiot Amibay Senior Staff Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff / Wales Posts: 1,302	40.68,, mmmm is that not KS 3.1 for the A1200 TC

07 October 2008, 20:24	#6
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,535	ROMs must work (at least partially) because checksum code is in ROMs that sets the red screen. Perhaps simple single bit error somewhere..

07 October 2008, 21:14	#7
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,009	You get the same symptoms (read screen) when you insert 3.1 ROM into an early revision A500 without manipulating the socket. So I'd presume the "ROM tower" approach, too (whatever a ROM tower might be). The chips are probably ok, they just don't match the socket.

07 October 2008, 21:28	#8
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Also check if you didn't put the new chips in reversed order (chip 1 on chip 2 place).

08 October 2008, 08:40	#12
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	The machine doesn't have a ROM tower, and I would have thought that that problem would have affected the 2.04 chips too? I think it really is faulty chips as that's the only difference between a working and non-working machine. I guess I'll just softkick it for now .

08 October 2008, 21:36	#14
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	I did jumper the machine for slower access, but didn't change the other jumpers for compatability... The chips have a sticky label on the top saying Amiga 3000-0 Rev 40.68 (c) 1993-1997 Amiga Int. Inc Licensed to power computing ltd All rights reserved and underneath Malaysia 9349DP W (9313AP W on -1 instead of -0) 97964D (97964B on -1 instead of -0) Rev 8.9 with buster 6, ramsey 04, dmac 02 J180 and 181 on my machine are not jumpers, there's two rows of 3 solder blobs and that's it labels ROMS and a2000 \ a3000

08 October 2008, 21:53	#15
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Just tried again... Changing nothing and.... Success?!??!!! Connection problems, perhaps? I dunno. But they're working! Happy bunny now

08 October 2008, 21:56	#16
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	ahem Damn. Confession time. I tried them without the daughter card in first time round. That'll do it every time. sheesh!

08 October 2008, 22:10	#17
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	So you were trying without the daughter card all along? And now with it in it works?

08 October 2008, 22:13	#18
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Yup. First time around, I thought the daughter card was in but I guess it wasn't - I'm sure I tried it with the daughtercard in but I can't have done Stripped the machine and tried it again tonight, same red screen, then plugged the daughter card in. Success! I am a tit.

08 October 2008, 22:15	#19
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	Hey we've all done something similar - which could be a whole new thread!

08 October 2008, 22:22	#20
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Looks like I might have spoken too soon - it seems to be randomly crashing with either red screen or yellow screen about 1 in 10 times. Wonder if it's to do with ROM timing?

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