Hybris PAL/NTSC issue

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 20:08

As for my Hybris problem.

1.6.2 B1 - broken
1.6.2 B2 - works!
1.6.2 B3 - works!
1.6.2 B4 - broken again

I've attached a savestate, though I don't understand why it's happening.

Toni Wilen · 22 August 2009, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSat

As for my Hybris problem.

1.6.2 B1 - broken
1.6.2 B2 - works!
1.6.2 B3 - works!
1.6.2 B4 - broken again

I've attached a savestate, though I don't understand why it's happening.

What exactly is the bug? (if you mean flickering background, it happens with all versions and there is no proof it is emulation problem)

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 20:57

the background flashes sometimes yes, but more likely the game speed is jumping like hell
the more enemies on the screen the game slows down to "normal", but when no enemies are on screen the game goes like turbo.

that doesn't happen one any of my real amigas AND it didn't happen in b2 and b3.

The WHDload installers states:
; the original routine used a beam delay but it must have been buggy
; now we count using the VBL

So it still seems to be a timing problem somewhere.

andreas · 22 August 2009, 21:04

Pardon me for jumping in, but we're at beta *9* now. The latest you've posted is b4...

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 21:08

I know, it broke again with beta 4 and hasn't worked since.

Toni Wilen · 22 August 2009, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSat

As for my Hybris problem.

My version of Hybris fills whole screen (no blank border at bottom) and runs without speed changes, is this yet another PAL/NTSC version difference? Your statefile seems to run correctly in NTSC mode.

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 22:31

Thats actually funny, as it was captures using a "default" quickstart PAL A500.

Toni Wilen · 22 August 2009, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSat

Thats actually funny, as it was captures using a "default" quickstart PAL A500.

???

You are obviously using NTSC version of Hybris in PAL mode. (and now I am not so sure anymore you are using same version on your real Amiga. Yet another reason for checksums!)

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 22:50

CRC32 - 6EB08E74
Hybris (1988)(Discovery)[cr QTX]

And for some reason you seem to be right. Its running in NTSC mode (the disk contains both versions) in beta 9, and in PAL mode in beta 3.

Toni Wilen · 22 August 2009, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSat

CRC32 - 6EB08E74
Hybris (1988)(Discovery)[cr QTX]

And for some reason you seem to be right. Its running in NTSC mode (the disk contains both versions) in beta 9, and in PAL mode in beta 3.

Ahh.. Finally we are getting somewhere, thanks

SailorSat · 22 August 2009, 23:19

Hm okay it looks like a bug in the game, as it keep selecting NTSC or PAL version quite random.

I just let WinUAE load the game, the game loads the NTSC version, then reset the amiga (ctrl-A-A) and the game came up in PAL version. (without touching any settings in winuae).

Toni Wilen · 23 August 2009, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSat

CRC32 - 6EB08E74
Hybris (1988)(Discovery)[cr QTX]

And for some reason you seem to be right. Its running in NTSC mode (the disk contains both versions) in beta 9, and in PAL mode in beta 3.

I don't have this version of Hybris. I have identically named version but CRC32 is different (BDF9303E) and it boots in PAL as expected, tried 10 times, always PAL. Or perhaps this game write highscores to disk or something like that?

andreas · 23 August 2009, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Or perhaps this game write highscores to disk or something like that?

Should only matter if the ADF was used unzipped, since ZIP files never get modified (thank goodness!

)

SailorSat · 23 August 2009, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I don't have this version of Hybris. I have identically named version but CRC32 is different (BDF9303E) and it boots in PAL as expected, tried 10 times, always PAL. Or perhaps this game write highscores to disk or something like that?

Okay with the help of andreas it became clear my disk image most likely has a virus on it and doesn't match any current TOSEC images.

So I tried with a fresh TOSEC image, with the correct checksum.

I tried the new images on three completely different PCs and used cold resets instead of warm resets as suggested by andreas.

I deleted the config files before testing just to be sure.
Started up using QuickStart Mode, Amiga 500 OCS, Kick 1.3 512+512.
Set the compatiblity slider to leftmost (best compatiblity)

From left to right: Desktop, Cabinet, Emu600
Try 1: PAL, PAL, NTSC
Try 2: PAL, PAL, PAL
Try 3: PAL, PAL, PAL
Try 4: PAL, PAL, PAL
Try 5: PAL, PAL, PAL
Try 6: PAL, NTSC, NTSC
Try 7: PAL, PAL, NTSC

It seems pretty much like it is a timing problem on my Emu600 machine though It also happens on other systems from time to time.

Thanks for your patience and keep the good work up

andreas · 28 August 2009, 00:36

@SailorSat:

I'm especially dying to know whether your Hybris testcases still work the same as in b10[1]

Once you're overcome by a sudden urge to retest this (cumbersome) stuff, please make sure to keep us posted

[1](ein altgedienter Skeptiker wie ich glaubt doch nur was er sieht =p)

SailorSat · 28 August 2009, 01:29

Guess you're right...
Must have been luck last time...
I noticed you can tell right when the title screen comes up.
NTSC mode -> title pinned to the top of the screen.
PAL mode -> title is (sort of) centered vertically

Too bad noone can reproduce that bug.

- Beta 10 -
desktop, cabinet, emu600
#1 pal, pal, pal
#2 pal, ntsc, pal
#3 ntsc, pal, pal
#4 pal, pal, ntsc
#5 pal, ntsc, pal
#6 ntsc, pal, pal
#7 pal, pal, pal
#8 pal, pal, pal
#9 pal, pal, pal
#10 pal, pal, pal
#11 pal, ntsc, ntsc

- Beta 11 -
desktop, cabinet, emu600
#1 pal, pal, pal
#2 pal, pal, pal
#3 pal, ntsc, pal
#4 pal, ntsc, pal
#5 ntsc, pal, pal
#6 pal, pal, pal
#7 pal, pal, ntsc
#8 pal, pal, ntsc
#9 ntsc, pal, pal
#10 ntsc, ntsc, pal
#11 pal, pal, pal

Toni Wilen · 29 August 2009, 12:56

(moved from beta thread)

I disassembled game's PAL/NTSC detection code and it can detect PAL as NTSC if timing is just right so this appears to be game bug.

SailorSat · 29 August 2009, 13:01

Okay, thank you for checkin.

28 August 2009, 00:36	#15
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	@SailorSat: I'm especially dying to know whether your Hybris testcases still work the same as in b10[1] Once you're overcome by a sudden urge to retest this (cumbersome) stuff, please make sure to keep us posted [1](ein altgedienter Skeptiker wie ich glaubt doch nur was er sieht =p) Last edited by andreas; 28 August 2009 at 00:41.

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22 August 2009, 20:57	#3
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	the background flashes sometimes yes, but more likely the game speed is jumping like hell the more enemies on the screen the game slows down to "normal", but when no enemies are on screen the game goes like turbo. that doesn't happen one any of my real amigas AND it didn't happen in b2 and b3. The WHDload installers states: ; the original routine used a beam delay but it must have been buggy ; now we count using the VBL So it still seems to be a timing problem somewhere.

22 August 2009, 21:04	#4
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Pardon me for jumping in, but we're at beta 9 now. The latest you've posted is b4...

22 August 2009, 21:08	#5
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	I know, it broke again with beta 4 and hasn't worked since.

22 August 2009, 22:31	#7
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	Thats actually funny, as it was captures using a "default" quickstart PAL A500.

22 August 2009, 22:50	#9
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	CRC32 - 6EB08E74 Hybris (1988)(Discovery)[cr QTX] And for some reason you seem to be right. Its running in NTSC mode (the disk contains both versions) in beta 9, and in PAL mode in beta 3.

22 August 2009, 23:19	#11
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	Hm okay it looks like a bug in the game, as it keep selecting NTSC or PAL version quite random. I just let WinUAE load the game, the game loads the NTSC version, then reset the amiga (ctrl-A-A) and the game came up in PAL version. (without touching any settings in winuae).

28 August 2009, 01:29	#16
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	Guess you're right... Must have been luck last time... I noticed you can tell right when the title screen comes up. NTSC mode -> title pinned to the top of the screen. PAL mode -> title is (sort of) centered vertically Too bad noone can reproduce that bug. - Beta 10 - desktop, cabinet, emu600 #1 pal, pal, pal #2 pal, ntsc, pal #3 ntsc, pal, pal #4 pal, pal, ntsc #5 pal, ntsc, pal #6 ntsc, pal, pal #7 pal, pal, pal #8 pal, pal, pal #9 pal, pal, pal #10 pal, pal, pal #11 pal, ntsc, ntsc - Beta 11 - desktop, cabinet, emu600 #1 pal, pal, pal #2 pal, pal, pal #3 pal, ntsc, pal #4 pal, ntsc, pal #5 ntsc, pal, pal #6 pal, pal, pal #7 pal, pal, ntsc #8 pal, pal, ntsc #9 ntsc, pal, pal #10 ntsc, ntsc, pal #11 pal, pal, pal

29 August 2009, 12:56	#17
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,504	(moved from beta thread) I disassembled game's PAL/NTSC detection code and it can detect PAL as NTSC if timing is just right so this appears to be game bug.

29 August 2009, 13:01	#18
SailorSat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hanau / Germany Age: 41 Posts: 65	Okay, thank you for checkin.

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