Amiga, Linux & Windows

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by P-J

So totally subjective grounds then?

Not at all, it is not really difficult to objectively measure most of these, whether through benchmarking or usability testing.

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by P-J

How many IRC clients have you tried? Most of the ones I've used are just as good as AmIRC if not better.

I wonder, which one is better?
And what's better about it?

Tried Pirch (buggy, and still sucky in comparison, but closest to amiIRC yet IMO) and Mirc on Windows. I also tried a couple on Suse/KDE and one that came with RedHat/Gnome but don't remember those well.
I remember, however:
a) none would show color status icons next to user names in user list like the little LEDs in amIRC. Instead they would use font characters, looked horrible.
b) all of them would have no or limited text colors I could select for different message types, and had only limited support for custom font selection for the various GUI aspects.
c) similar to b) the customizability I got from MUI (fonts buttons, colors windows) was missing completely.
d) I also remember the server selection being horrible and counter intuitive, e.g. you could not easily open a second chat window that simply connected to a different server. Not without tons of mouse clicks through various menus. And you had to add a new server's new adress to the server list first before actually being able to connect to it... meh
etc...

As was standard with MUI, I could customize the AmIRC gui completely and separately from any other programs using the standardized MUI preferences.

Where is that possible on _any_ current OS?

For AmIRC, I made use of this by e.g. selecting a supertiny font for the chat box to fit more history on the screen and so on.

Amiga rulez still after all those years, unbelievable but true!

EDIT: Holy Sh** I just realized my AmIRC is German, and now I remember something else about Amiga OS:
locale.library! On the Amiga, it was standard to change a program into your native language by just downloading these tiny files - localization was built into the OS! How come we don't have that anywhere else still? I am still downloading _separate_ German executables (if they exist) for my programs to have them in German in any non-Amiga OS? On the Amiga, no separate exe was needed.

Somebody pinch me...

[Fred the Fop]

Originally Posted by P-J

No, you're a retard because your post is full of utter shit.

Let's investigate :



Null argument. You've used speed as the benchmark of OS quality for the sake of your own argument. Bzzzt. You suck. Also, this is not opinion, you are trying to state a fact. If you don't believe me you should learn how the English language works. If you simply add 'I think' or 'In my opinion' at the start of your sentence, you might not attract so much hate. Little things, little things...

Then you say...



...shortly followed by...



...which just made me feel sorry for your employer. Oh well, they'll get rid of you one day! Apple is a customised version of Linux? At least most of the trolls in this thread have some knowledge of what they speak!

As ususal, your logic is well applied to arguements, PJ.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Fred the Duck

As ususal, your logic is well applied to arguements, PJ.

Cant you just feel the Love everybody?

[P-J]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

Amiga rulez still after all those years, unbelievable but true!

Thanks! Having a boring day at work and needed a good laugh

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

Kinda nice... I remember now...
well, but what about getting the Amiga behaviour then?
I mean window activation on single click, but no window-to-front on single click? Maybe I didn't try hard enough, but it seems that is not even possible in X Windows... wtf?

Well, as far as I'm aware you can't get that on Windows easily (the X-Mouse thing is just a hidden option that has been there all along, window tracking, and I don't think it has any more hidden hidden options). I'm sure there are ways to work around that, and on X anything is possible of course on account of most of the window managers being open source. But nobody seems to have bothered.

Someone else (I think, maybe it was you ) complained about the same thing on IRC recently. Could you give me a screen shot of a situation where that behavior would be beneficial? And preferably one that's not caused by having to work at extremely low resolutions (because that may have been an issue back in the day, but it isn't now for the average desktop OS).

I do see the benefit of having keyboard focus without raising the window sometimes, but what's with clicking? That said -- it appears to be a little known fact, but -- Windows Explorer (and possibly other programs) does not raise a window when you begin to drag an element from it, and I do like that it behaves in that way. But when else could it possibly matter?

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

Tried Pirch (buggy, and still sucky in comparison, but closest to amiIRC yet IMO) and Mirc on Windows. I also tried a couple on Suse/KDE and one that came with RedHat/Gnome but don't remember those well.
I remember, however:
a) none would show color status icons next to user names in user list like the little LEDs in amIRC. Instead they would use font characters, looked horrible.
b) all of them would have no or limited text colors I could select for different message types, and had only limited support for custom font selection for the various GUI aspects.
c) similar to b) the customizability I got from MUI (fonts buttons, colors windows) was missing completely.
d) I also remember the server selection being horrible and counter intuitive, e.g. you could not easily open a second chat window that simply connected to a different server. Not without tons of mouse clicks through various menus. And you had to add a new server's new adress to the server list first before actually being able to connect to it... meh
etc...

I suppose X-chat may be to your liking. At least most of the points on that list made me think of it. Although I personally prefer the sober look of mIRC or possibly the simplicity of a console mode client (nirc, irssi, etc., although I personally only used nirc much).

Originally Posted by rsn8887

As was standard with MUI, I could customize the AmIRC gui completely and separately from any other programs using the standardized MUI preferences.
Where is that possible on _any_ current OS?

For AmIRC, I made use of this by e.g. selecting a supertiny font for the chat box to fit more history on the screen and so on.

Amiga rulez still after all those years, unbelievable but true!

Well, if the in-program customization isn't enough for you, there are programs line WindowBlinds for MS Windows for heavy customization. On X, the window managers themselves often already provide lots of possible customization. Just take a look at everything you can configure in FVWM2 for example (admittedly not the prettiest example, but an early example, there are many more, obviously). However, admittedly window manager side per-application configuration may be rare (WindowBlinds does it though).

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

EDIT: Holy Sh** I just realized my AmIRC is German, and now I remember something else about Amiga OS:
locale.library! On the Amiga, it was standard to change a program into your native language by just downloading these tiny files - localization was built into the OS! How come we don't have that anywhere else still? I am still downloading _separate_ German executables (if they exist) for my programs to have them in German in any non-Amiga OS? On the Amiga, no separate exe was needed.

Somebody pinch me...

That's a bit of the problem of the sheer mass of software that exists nowadays. They don't all adhere to the same standards (and I'm sure not every Amiga program used locale.library either), although there are plenty of centralized localization methods. Windows offers its own with string resources, KDE (and Qt) have their own with their translators, etc.

It is becoming more common again nowadays to just have translation files (whether standardized or homebrewed) instead of creating localized binaries. But I wouldn't be too sure it was ever that much more common on the Amiga than it has been on platforms that are still alive since.

[Fred the Fop]

Originally Posted by blade002

Cant you just feel the Love everybody?

I am merciless when I deal with sycophants, fanatics, and fools of all stripes.
Reason and logic are to be protected, not besmirched with sentiment.
I know an aquaintance, and he is dying. Now, I am an atheist, and he is a devout catholic. Common sense telle me, and decency, not to lambaste him for his belief, or to offer mmy opinion on the afterlife or heaven hell etc.
I'd like him to go peacefully and content, with visions of nice things.

But when it comes to this crap, fanaticism about some decrepit OS or computer, or automobile, something that has NO business in a person's heart,
I get mad.
It is a pathetic indicator of the deep shit western civilization is in, when the UK has 1 million people claiming Jedi as a religion, when people go mad of some stupid game like Halo, or gossip about Paris Hilton, or wax about how Mac or Linux or Amiga is an epiphinal experience, or the New York Yankees baseball team success means soooooo much to their shit lives.
There is a lot more to put one's heart and soul into, than a mother fucking computer.

[P-J]

Originally Posted by Fred the Duck

It is a pathetic indicator of the deep shit western civilization is in, when the UK has 1 million people claiming Jedi as a religion, when people go mad of some stupid game like Halo, or gossip about Paris Hilton, or wax about how Mac or Linux or Amiga is an epiphinal experience, or the New York Yankees baseball team.

That is almost exactly what I think of when I read these threads. Maybe I'm getting old too

[Paul_s]

It's all Bill McEwens fault.

[P-J]

You could easily use a PM for this since you are only addressing Fred.

Just saying.

//edit : Blade deleted his post so don't ask

[blade002]

Originally Posted by P-J

You could easily use a PM for this since you are only addressing Fred.

Just saying.

Maybe your right .. LOL

[Retro1234]

Off Topic -But do any of you Linux Geeks Know of a version I could install on a Fat32 Partion Ive been looking and found some info on Vfat but not realy found andything useful?

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Off Topic -But do any of you Linux Geeks Know of a version I could install on a Fat32 Partion Ive been looking and found some info on Vfat but not realy found andything useful?

HEY !!!, who you calling a Geek?. I am a NERD !!!!. Get it Right, otherwise i will be forced to send Fred The Duck around to fuck you in the Bum!

Sorry mate, cant help ya

[P-J]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Off Topic -But do any of you Linux Geeks Know of a version I could install on a Fat32 Partion Ive been looking and found some info on Vfat but not realy found andything useful?

Does it have to be FAT32? Perhaps you could explain what you're trying to achieve and we could go from there.

[Retro1234]

I do find Linux quite hard to get to grips but id like to have a permanent Install along side Windows on my Pc and be able to access Linux files from Dos or Windows as Im Still Using Fat32 and not NTFS and Im not going to aruge about the benfits of Linux fileSystems as I still use Windows 3.11 and Dos along side Xp - sad I know.

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I do find Linux quite hard to get to grips but id like to have a permanent Install along side Windows on my Pc and be able to access Linux files from Dos or Windows as Im Still Using Fat32 and not NTFS and Im not going to aruge about the benfits of Linux fileSystems as I still use Windows 3.11 and Dos along side Xp - sad I know.

The typical solution (as far as I'm aware) is having a (small) Linux root partition and a shared FAT32 partition that you can use both from Windows and mount in Linux (that's relatively easy). I'm not sure how good NTFS support is these days, it has been read only for a long time.

[P-J]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I do find Linux quite hard to get to grips but id like to have a permanent Install along side Windows on my Pc and be able to access Linux files from Dos or Windows as Im Still Using Fat32 and not NTFS and Im not going to aruge about the benfits of Linux fileSystems as I still use Windows 3.11 and Dos along side Xp - sad I know.

It isn't sad. Even I like to muck about with it occasionally

Have you thought about a virtual PC? VirtualBox is like a virtual PC you can run on Windows. You can then install Linux in there just to muck about with and carry on using Windows. It doesn't cover all of your needs but it's a sure-fire way not to hose your system.

It's not ideal, so eLowars suggestion is the closest you'll get I think.

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by eLowar

Well, if the in-program customization isn't enough for you, there are programs line WindowBlinds for MS Windows for heavy customization. On X, the window managers themselves often already provide lots of possible customization. Just take a look at everything you can configure in FVWM2 for example (admittedly not the prettiest example, but an early example, there are many more, obviously). However, admittedly window manager side per-application configuration may be rare (WindowBlinds does it though).

But these skins are quite different from MUI configs in my opinion. I don't know how to say, but they are more skinning the "surface" while MUI lets you customize the "depths" of the GUI.

And skinning tools usually don't provide an interface as easy as MUI's to customize all aspects of the gui. I think you have to spend quite some time getting to grips with the programs before you can make your own skins.

Compare to MUI where anybody can easily change all aspects of the gui of each program with a couple mouse-clicks, including minutious details such as the scrolling behaviour of text frames (!) and so on.

Users of Windowblinds will probably download pre-made skins rather than make their own. But, I mean, who downloads pre-made MUI configs? There's no need since it's so easy to customize exactly to your liking.