Final Fight Speculation

[saimon69]

btw i created a specific thread about my proposal grid idea here in order to be discussed/demolished/rebuilt,etc. And will not mention it here no more.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

No you can't. You can have BOBs on a playfield drawn on top or behind a sprite, but you can't have both at the same time. If you draw the player as a sprite, all enemies will be either behind or in front of the player.

Had this bad habit to think at Amiga sprites like c64 ones :/

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I *Really* want to try out to do a beat'em up game on Amiga at some point. I actually begin to learn how to code for Amiga because I wanted to do a beat'em up for it. When I feel more confident (and have enough free time, something I barely have up until October) I'll try to do my own.

But no Final Fight port, I'd rather do something new and original

To me one of the best arcade beat'em ups is Vendetta i.e. the sequel to Crime Fighters (though that was cool for its time)

Cool concept, loads of enemies, kicking people when down, various weapons / objects to use, knockdown manoeuvre etc...

Obviously followed by many of the Capcom ones

[Shatterhand]

by the way, if in a ZX spectrum the dynamic change is fast enough to simulate multicolor (nirvana engine), i guess on Amiga should be sorta feasible too (albeit in assembly, not in blitz basic or AMOS).

I am pretty sure the way the Spectrum does that is completely different from the Amiga way, since the way the Spectrum "builds" the screen is also completely different.

I am really impressed by that screenshot... the "tiles" are all working with the 2 colors for each 8x8 block, which is normal for Spectrum. But the "moving sprites" (don't know how you call them on Spectrum, since Spectrum has no sprites) seem to have more colors... even though never more than 2 for each line on each 8x8 block, and one of them is always black.

Still, from what I know of the Spectrum hardware (very little), this is very... impressive. But I am pretty sure whatever trick it's done here, it works in a complete different way as the Copper change pallete registers between scanlines

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by DamienD

To me one of the best arcade beat'em ups is Vendetta i.e. the sequel to Crime Fighters (though that was cool for its time)

Cool concept, loads of enemies, kicking people when down, various weapons / objects to use, knockdown manoeuvre etc...

Obviously followed by many of the Capcom ones

Vendetta is cheap as hell, as the original Crime Fighters also was. Freaking impossible to beat with a single credit (Nah, I am sure some super player can do it, but its hard as nails). It's kinda fun to play it with credit feeding, I've done it a few times during my retro-gaming meetings here, 4 players beating the shit out of punks is always fun, even if you're cheating all through it


It does have some pretty interesting gameplay features indeed.

I must say I am a sucker for the Capcom beat'em ups, even though people complain they are "too simple". I love King of Dragons for example, but also love Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and Alien vs Predator. Cadillacs & Dinosaurs was a huge hit here in Brazil, *EVERY* arcade had one cabinet of it and it was hugely popular.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Vendetta is cheap as hell, as the original Crime Fighters also was. Freaking impossible to beat with a single credit (Nah, I am sure some super player can do it, but its hard as nails). It's kinda fun to play it with credit feeding, I've done it a few times during my retro-gaming meetings here, 4 players beating the shit out of punks is always fun, even if you're cheating all through it

It does have some pretty interesting gameplay features indeed.

Tell me what arcade game back in the day wasn't hard as hell and a coin muncher? That's was the whole point...

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I must say I am a sucker for the Capcom beat'em ups, even though people complain they are "too simple". I love King of Dragons for example, but also love Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and Alien vs Predator. Cadillacs & Dinosaurs was a huge hit here in Brazil, *EVERY* arcade had one cabinet of it and it was hugely popular.

Yeah me too, hence why I mentioned this afterwards.

...in fact any Capcom arcade games rock IMHO!!!

[Shatterhand]

Tell me what arcade game back in the day wasn't hard as hell and a coin muncher? That's was the whole point...

Some more than others. I've finished both Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and The Punisher playing on a real arcade without continues (to be fair, on Cadillacs I actually continued once, but my friends playing with me didn't ), and I can get really far on King of Dragons with a single credit playing by myself (Never tried to credit-feed it though to see how many coins I'd need to finish it )

Vendetta I don't think I'd ever even get close to it.

I've finished a few arcade games without using continues (My most proud achievements are the shooters Armed Police Batrider and Gigawing), but some arcade games are *REALLY* cheap

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I am pretty sure the way the Spectrum does that is completely different from the Amiga way, since the way the Spectrum "builds" the screen is also completely different.

I am really impressed by that screenshot... the "tiles" are all working with the 2 colors for each 8x8 block, which is normal for Spectrum. But the "moving sprites" (don't know how you call them on Spectrum, since Spectrum has no sprites) seem to have more colors... even though never more than 2 for each line on each 8x8 block, and one of them is always black.

Still, from what I know of the Spectrum hardware (very little), this is very... impressive. But I am pretty sure whatever trick it's done here, it works in a complete different way as the Copper change pallete registers between scanlines

I don't know if you are familiar with the spectrum graphics, there are two maps: the display file - that contain the proper bitmap - and the attributes map - that is one byte per every 32x24 grid, background (or paper) and foreground (or ink).
Seems the idea is to change the attribute value on interrupt WHILE scanline goes every number of vertical pixels (2 in the Nirvana Engine, 1 in the biFrost, that however has a more limited screen area).

A downside of this technique so far is that is not possible to scroll, bit i have seen somebody do some tests disproving that.

In my technical ignorance i considered the copper has 8 pixel horizontal resolution, so though if simulate a grid and reduce the color changes to just 8x8 things might be acceptably faster.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I've finished a few arcade games without using continues (My most proud achievements are the shooters Armed Police Batrider and Gigawing), but some arcade games are *REALLY* cheap

If you haven't already, read / respond in this thread: Arcade games you really completed in 1 credit

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by DamienD

If you haven't already, read / respond in this thread: Arcade games you really completed in 1 credit

Posts 51 and 52. I actually mention Cadillacs & Dinosaurs just like I did here, and how proud I am of Gigawing and Batrider, and I also complain about both Vendetta and Crime Fighters being too hard

By the way Shock Troopers and Willow are 2 to be very proud of, no easy games

[sandruzzo]

@Shatterhand

Interlaced idea to double the colors is usable with dual play field, it just bite a lot more memory, and you'll have a little bit of flickering. And if you couple it with some clever copper list and less screen size, you can allmost hit 50hz!

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by saimon69

hmm, is one color change (leaving a jolly color) dynamically allocated 40x20 times (and maybe optimized to not change adjacent same 8x8 element) every 1/50s a too big copperlist? I have no clue

BTW am going to make a separate thread because this is an idea i had since a while and want to see if something might come out of it

Amiga ram is 16 bit acces, so if you use 8*8 grid you could slow down things

[Tigerskunk]

I think if you are going the 25 fps route, you should be able to blit most of the enemies.

[touko]

Vigilante on Amiga is atrocious, it's one of the worst games I ever played on Amiga. It really is very very bad.

I agree and frankly, it could be way better .
A game that deserves to be redone is double dragon 1, i think you can do a close pixel perfect arcade version,mainly with 1MB of RAM .

For SOR on amiga OCS if my memory is right, somebody tried to do something .
[ Show youtube player ]

[TurboCrash]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Vendetta is cheap as hell, as the original Crime Fighters also was. Freaking impossible to beat with a single credit (Nah, I am sure some super player can do it, but its hard as nails). It's kinda fun to play it with credit feeding, I've done it a few times during my retro-gaming meetings here, 4 players beating the shit out of punks is always fun, even if you're cheating all through it


It does have some pretty interesting gameplay features indeed.

I must say I am a sucker for the Capcom beat'em ups, even though people complain they are "too simple". I love King of Dragons for example, but also love Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and Alien vs Predator. Cadillacs & Dinosaurs was a huge hit here in Brazil, *EVERY* arcade had one cabinet of it and it was hugely popular.

Vendetta for me is a cool beat'em up because it's funny as hell and doesn't try to be politically correct like Capcom games. Don't get me wrong, I played all the Capcom beat'em ups at the arcades and I liked almost every single one, but they pretty much were the only things available. I rarely got to see games like Vendetta at the arcades. Capcom beat'em ups are kind of bland and feel all the same after a while.
Games like Vendetta and another epic beat'em up (set in a jungle) whose name escapes me ATM had special "street" moves that aren't in Capcom games. Like you can't hit someone cuz he's down, or like a back kick to the growing has the same reaction as a normal kick in Capcom games.

Target Renegade would've rocked if it had a coin op "port"

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by TurboCrash

and another epic beat'em up (set in a jungle) whose name escapes me ATM had special "street" moves that aren't in Capcom games.

...probably not but maybe P.O.W. - Prisoners of War?

Thunder Fox was fun also

[adolfo.pa]

Originally Posted by TurboCrash

Vendetta for me is a cool beat'em up because it's funny as hell and doesn't try to be politically correct like Capcom games.

Wasn't Vendetta the one where the cop from Village People used some pretty explicit "special" moves on you? In my area it was quite famous and well known, if only for that reason :-)

Games like Vendetta and another epic beat'em up (set in a jungle) whose name escapes me ATM

Could that be Growl? I remember you could use all kinds of gadgets, kick people on the ground, etc.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by adolfo.pa

Wasn't Vendetta the one where the cop from Village People used some pretty explicit "special" moves on you? In my area it was quite famous and well known, if only for that reason :-)

Yes, that's the one.

Crime Fighters also had similar stuff.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by OmegaMax

There was a sequel to kung fu master but it wasn't received well and it was pulled from the arcade test sites.

[ Show youtube player ]

Regarding the Kung Fu Master 2 prototype, just jumped on the MAMEWorld Forums to see if I could find any news... see this thread.

...unfortunately though, it seems that no ROMs have been submitted to MAME

[OmegaMax]

There are a few owners of arcade boards prototypes that will not send their boards to anyone for dumping the roms,unfortunately this might be the case with this also.