Misc programming discussion (from pms).

[Thorham]

First: Don't forget my two previous posts, plz

I've got a little something for you here: BmpView_12bit.txt

It's an optimized 24bit to 12bit test viewer, and it's quite fast. Assemble in AsmOne with case sensitivity off. Use with bmp files (stored in ram disk preferably). Try it with a 1280x1024x24 picture, and be sure to check the c2p.

Note: Bmp file name is at the end of the source code.

Updated c2p routine (slightly optimized compared to version in viewer):

;---------------------------------------------------------------
;C2P
;----------------------------------------------------------------
C2P	movem.l	d0-a6,-(sp)

	move.l	bmp_buffer,a4
	move.l	_screen,a3

	move.l	scale_height,d6
	mulu.w	#40,d6
	move.l	#40960*2,a6
C2P_Main
	move.l	a6,a5
	add.l	a6,a5
	add.l	a6,a5
	subq.l	#4,a5

	move.l	#$33333333,d5
	move.l	#$55555555,d7
a
C2P_Loop
	moveq	#7,d4
.loop
	lsl.l	#4,d0
	or.b	(a4)+,d0
	lsl.l	#4,d1
	or.b	(a4)+,d1
	lsl.l	#4,d2
	or.b	(a4)+,d2
	lsl.l	#4,d3
	or.b	(a4)+,d3

	dbra	d4,.loop
;2 bits
	ror.l	#2,d2
	move.l	d0,d4
	eor.l	d2,d4
	and.l	d5,d4
	eor.l	d4,d0
	eor.l	d4,d2
	rol.l	#2,d2

	ror.l	#2,d3
	move.l	d1,d4
	eor.l	d3,d4
	and.l	d5,d4
	eor.l	d4,d1
	eor.l	d4,d3
;1 bit
	ror.l	#1,d1
	move.l	d0,d4
	eor.l	d1,d4
	and.l	d7,d4
	eor.l	d4,d0
	eor.l	d4,d1
	rol.l	#1,d1

	rol.l	#1,d3
	move.l	d2,d4
	eor.l	d3,d4
	and.l	d7,d4
	eor.l	d4,d2
	eor.l	d4,d3
	rol.l	#1,d3
;write planes
	move.l	d3,(a3)
	add.l	a6,a3
	move.l	d2,(a3)
	add.l	a6,a3
	move.l	d1,(a3)
	add.l	a6,a3
	move.l	d0,(a3)

	sub.l	a5,a3

	subq.l	#1,d6
	bne	c2p_loop
b
	movem.l	(sp)+,d0-a6
	rts
;---------------------------------------------------

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

True. Without JIT, UAE would be quite a bit slower. Not a problem, because it creates a substantial speedup, and it's perfectly acceptable for such aplications.

But even with that UAE is totally beaten up by real hardware in multitasking speed on the Amiga side...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hmm, well yes, I guess my intuition sucks 'a little'

I too was very surprised when I discovered this. My debugger still doesn't work on 060

Originally Posted by Thorham

Ok, but I thought for moving a whole bunch of numbers around, then it makes no sense, or just not always.

It's the sort of instruction that you don't use often, I agree, but when you need it you happily use it. Yet I have no proof this won't work on 060 : my "move.l a7,-(a7) / move.l (a7)+,d0 / sub.l a7,d0" test failed on both 040 and 060 ! (you really get 0, not -4)

Originally Posted by Thorham

In this system frame, the functions which are added to make use of the frame, are to handle the error codes the frame returns. In the case of a file not existing, the added program can just call the frames exit function. Ultimately, the situation you describe is a programmers error. How much do you want automated, and more importantly, how much makes sense to automate?

It makes a lot of sense to automate, because 1) those are just too easily forgotten and 2) they're cumbersome, boring and repetitive code.
So, unless told otherwise, my own frame just aborts with an error message.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Haven't looked at it yet. But it sounds like they've just explained it in a bad way. Any alternatives?

Nope. No alternatives found. The only other references that I know of are (not very readable) code.

Originally Posted by Thorham

RTD? Nope. Looked it up in my 68000 book, but it's apparently 68020+. But link/unlk, yes. I've just forgotten about them, I guess. Time to use those in my frame instead, because they make more sense

Yeah, it's 020+, but it's not hard to simulate with a few 68000 instructions.
I can give you a small macro if you want. Now the callee will correct the SP, not the caller. Say, just rtd #4 in the callee rather than make the caller do an addq.l #4,a7.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oh, they did? Not cooperative I hope? And yeah, msdos just plain sucks. Period And again, it's true. Os calls often don't need speed. Although I may have written this before, in witch case I , in my Os (written over ten years ago), I started out with passing registers to functions, and got in trouble real fast, because some of the functions required a relatively large amount of parameters. I then did a rewrite of the whole thing, and actually used link and unlk instead (why I forgot about those I don't know...). Using memory for parameter passing resulted in cleaner code in this case, so it's a method I've kept using.

Not cooperative AFAIK. And with memory protection :-)
Strangely enough I never had the problem of too many parameters to be put in registers, except for parameters given to printf-like calls, which simply takes them in the stack.
Can you give me an example of a function that would take lots of regs ?
About link/unlk I can't forget them right now, as there are a LOT of them in compiled code :-)

Side note : I think I'll start using ":-)" as smiley, because this 15 image limitation is driving me nuts !

Originally Posted by Thorham

I have! The reason for a hardware version if overcoming the chipmem limit. Simply copy some of the chipmem to fastmem, display the image, and afterwards copy the memory back, then restore the system. More times then I care to remember, have I had to close programs to simply show a picture because of running out of chipmem. Or worse, having to reboot. Although rebooting is fast, it's silly if you have to because of wanting to check some pictures In this case, that single advantage outweighs the disadvantages, especially since the program would be intended as a second viewer for cases where chipmem is running low (happens all the time, really).

I didn't think about that. Well, then. A viewer doesn't have to perform any i/o while displaying an image, just preload.
A good idea would be to add this as an option. Furthermore, it can allow to try this neat aga-sliced ham
Strangely I don't often run out of chip memory. Maybe you run some programs which eat too much.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Never had a problem with them for some reason

Sure. You don't have a resourced DM game to handle

Originally Posted by Thorham

Nope, it's not the patches. I've only replaced MCX with MCP very recently (about a month ago), and I doubt fblit and ftext have anything to do with it, either. The weird behavior happens when booting without a startup-sequnce, as well. Trust me, it's not the patches, so I still recommend you check out the mentioned programs

I checked MCP and it simply refused to work. Ok, I hate installers and tried it by hand

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hitting the hardware is not necessarily that dirty. Can't you allocate the audio channels with the os, and then write to the audio regs directly?

That's exactly what I'm doing !

Originally Posted by Thorham

I always write long posts such as this one in OpenOfficeWriter. I simply proof-read using the forum's preview function, and by the time I'm done correcting things, I can post the second half of the post.

I use the pre-view a lot, too.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Quite a shame, really. Msdos is great for the fact it can be killed.

Oh, you probably don't even have to "kill" it. Just do your hardware-banging stuff and it won't annoy you. Yet this way can probably only work on old machines, as gfx boards don't have any standard specs.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oo is a great extension of structured programming. That's it's primary use to me. And think about, in assembler it's used, as well. A good example would be the linked list system in my sysframe. You have the list header structure, and you have a bunch of routines witch only act on that data structure, while at the same time, those routines are the only ones witch access that structure directly. In the frame, two such lists are made; a memlist and a filelist, so that there are two instances of the linkedlist object. The only difference with oo languages is that you don't define anything as actually being a class, while in essence, it's still object oriented.

Both the structuring capabilities (if not over used) and the fact that it can be common in assembler (!), leads me to believe oo is an essential addition to (at least) any structured language.

What you describe here is not oo and can easily be done without it.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hehe, Chinese abacus Indeed, 68k is rediculous compared to 6502; it's almost a higher language if you compare the two And I know, because I've done a few simple intros on teh c64 in the old days. Haven't tried PPC, though.

68k rIdiculous compared to 6502, you probably meant the opposite

Originally Posted by Thorham

Do you have a problem with that? I certainly don't

Me, no. But the forum iself apparently has

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hehe, I've looked at that (thank you Wikipedia). Seems simple enough, and it's actually a good idea I never thought about that sort of thing, though, and didn't even knew it existed!

We learn things every day, pal.

Originally Posted by Thorham

A human does at the information level. The hardware that processes that information is probably just as clueless as a computer is.

Probably, but even at the information level the computer is still clueless.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Of course! But perhaps some things don't necessarily require brute force, while simply being very difficult to comprehend. For these tasks the human could prove to be the limit, where it would take a long time before someone came up with an efficient algorithmic approach.

If conscious thought takes billions of neurons to actually work, then it's probably not just a matter of algorithmics.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Maybe not (Sorry )

Maybe not. But if you throw a die, let alone several millions of them at once, even if you know physics you won't predict the result.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

This char limit thing is getting anoying

Be less talkative next time, eh eh.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't think the brain could actually handle that many, let alone that quickly; in such a case a big computer would be needed anyway. Don't over estimate brain power. It may prove that all the tasks it performs ultimately aren't that complex at all if looked at from a different perspective.

I didn't say the brain can handle that many, but to simulate it you'll have to do that.
About the tasks it performs, consider the simple fact of a face recognition.
Or what "different perspective" has to be looked at ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's the case, yes. But the brain is simply a logical information processor, just like a computer is. They simply go about things in a different way, and I think that the tasks the brain performs may be possible in a different way.

Nope. Don't agree. The brain is more than a logical information processor. It handles a quasi-infinite different number of levels per input per neuron, where the computer only has 0 or 1.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, our machines aren't optimal as in perfect. That would be nice, though What I mean with optimal, is that machines are designed, and not evolved. How well can the good old 68000 be optimized without sacrificing a single feature and without adding a single transistor? My guess is not very much. How well can a brain be optimized without sacrificing features or adding neurons? A lot! Humans don't have the biggest brains by a long shot, and yet our brains are the most advanced.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia (Neuroscience and intelligence)

Here is a list of some species, along with their rough average brain sizes:

Homo erectus: 980 cm³
Homo habilis: 750 cm³
Homo floresiensis: 380 cm³
Homo neanderthalensis: 1200-1750 cm³ skull capacity (10% greater than modern human average (when including juvenile cranial capacity)
Homo sapiens:1350-1400 cm³

This list shows there's obvious room for improvement, while at the same time the brain can be made smaller.

That list just shows that Neanderthal might have been more intelligent than we are !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Please do

Consider those two pieces of code and tell me which one is the best :

 add.l var,d1
 add.l var,d2

 move.l var,d0
 add.l d0,d1
 add.l d0,d2

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't know. Why not upload yourself to a computer, walk around with a robotic body, and live 'forever'

Please stop playing BloodNet at once !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Absolutely not

Anyway with a monitor's loudspeakers you won't hear much difference...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I did. And what makes it worse is the high cpu load, which slows down the whole experience. Wav solves this perfectly, and flac may save some storage space while saving cpu time.

Once again I ask : what settings ??? You can tweak a lot with mpegaplayer.
Might depend on what sort of music, too. Hard rock needs less quality than a sweet feminine voice

And for flac, don't expect any cpu time savings. It's usually as costly as mpeg audio.
For waves, ok. If exhausting your HD is no problem. Maybe it's because of that you like prepping them in UAE. Ok now I've understood :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

But I've read on the board that it does this with a patch, meaning you can't cold boot from cd (as far as I know).

You only need to load it from disk if you don't have it installed in chips.
Else how would a CD32 boot ???

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've used that for years before I got my current peecee. I just like the WinUAE method more, because it's fast, especially for large amounts of data, such as a few gigs of game packs, and several more gigs of music. Just a personal preference

Bah, I don't prep HD's all the time. For backups CF cards are good to me, they don't need to unplug the HD from the miggy. Not to mention they're sooooo silent :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

I know. But as I said, I reached the end area in the challenge, I didn't defeat the boss, yet.

Oh you didn't say that to me !
This requires a lot of care even with 4 characters ; I did it twice or more.
But you probably killed old Dragoth a few dozens of times too, eh ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

For one party member you can save quite some cash. Furthermore, there is quite a lot of cash floating around. Not a problem.

I also end up very rich (not as much as in Captive, okay).
But I would hate to buy dozens of empty flasks just to defeat the boss.

Originally Posted by Thorham

As I've said, using only skills from items I've reached the end area, so it is certainly possible. I actually believe the designers made the game so that it's possible.

Tada, I finally found something you didn't know ! :-)


Here are the answers :

1. Just throw over the pit the little bone you've found, to the place the coins lie, and the wolves will fetch it (just don't stand between them and the pit). By the time they'll also take the coins, and, yes, bring them to you !

2. Use a minion map. As long as the minion is on the same cell as you are, you'll never get caught.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sounds good

Certainly. Current dungeon has more than 1400 of them now :-)
Yet I would love getting more feedback from you.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Well, good luck again

Well, thanks again

Originally Posted by Thorham

Erm, yes

How come ? You got fed up ? Or was it just too hard for you ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oh no, don't tempt me!

I won't. You'll have to BEG for hints :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

True. I just hope to get enough money soon

Come on, it's not that costly !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Wouldn't make me as sad as a dead miggy, but still enough to

Oh yeah ? I still can't understand why some people can be attached to a peecee :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

First: Don't forget my two previous posts, plz

You sure I shouldn't ? Oh, well, yes, ok.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've got a little something for you here:

It's an optimized 24bit to 12bit test viewer, and it's quite fast. Assemble in AsmOne with case sensitivity off. Use with bmp files (stored in ram disk preferably). Try it with a 1280x1024x24 picture, and be sure to check the c2p.

Note: Bmp file name is at the end of the source code.

Updated c2p routine (slightly optimized compared to version in viewer)

Fast, yes. But ugly. (sorry )

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

But even with that UAE is totally beaten up by real hardware in multitasking speed on the Amiga side...

Hmm, the only problem I have with WinUAE is the graphics speed, witch is caused by my 'slow' peecee.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I too was very surprised when I discovered this. My debugger still doesn't work on 060

That sucks then. Any way to fix it?

Originally Posted by meynaf

It's the sort of instruction that you don't use often, I agree, but when you need it you happily use it. Yet I have no proof this won't work on 060 : my "move.l a7,-(a7) / move.l (a7)+,d0 / sub.l a7,d0" test failed on both 040 and 060 ! (you really get 0, not -4)

Odd Do you know what causes it?

Originally Posted by meynaf

It makes a lot of sense to automate, because 1) those are just too easily forgotten and 2) they're cumbersome, boring and repetitive code.
So, unless told otherwise, my own frame just aborts with an error message.

But that's not always handy. Not all errors are fatal. Suppose you supply your utility with a list of files to rename. If some of the files don't exist or are moved/deleted before renaming, then the files witch can be renamed will not be renamed. If the error handling is done by hand, the program can simply skip the files witch are not found, and just rename the rest, and tell the user witch files were not renamed.

Another example would be reserving a chipmem buffer and then killing the system. If there isn't enough memory, then handling the error by hand lets you reserve fastmem, kill the system, and copy some chipmem to fastmem. Only if the fastmem reservation fails, it's a fatal error, and the program can exit.

It's true that it sucks to handle the errors by hand, but it creates a greater level of flexibility.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Nope. No alternatives found. The only other references that I know of are (not very readable) code.

It's always the same with those formats, isn't it? How difficult is it to properly document a format? Bah

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yeah, it's 020+, but it's not hard to simulate with a few 68000 instructions.
I can give you a small macro if you want. Now the callee will correct the SP, not the caller. Say, just rtd #4 in the callee rather than make the caller do an addq.l #4,a7.

Right. I guess I'll have to do some more reading up on my 68020+ knowledge

Originally Posted by meynaf

Not cooperative AFAIK. And with memory protection :-)
Strangely enough I never had the problem of too many parameters to be put in registers, except for parameters given to printf-like calls, which simply takes them in the stack.
Can you give me an example of a function that would take lots of regs ?
About link/unlk I can't forget them right now, as there are a LOT of them in compiled code :-)

I can't give you a concrete example, but lets just say that the first version of my kernel became quite messy because of register passing. In such programs it's better to pass the parameters through memory, I think

Originally Posted by meynaf

Side note : I think I'll start using ":-)" as smiley, because this 15 image limitation is driving me nuts !

I can understand why, mate

Originally Posted by meynaf

I didn't think about that. Well, then. A viewer doesn't have to perform any i/o while displaying an image, just preload.
A good idea would be to add this as an option. Furthermore, it can allow to try this neat aga-sliced ham.

The good old sliced ham, cool Also, scaling can be done during loading for large images, allowing images of nearly any size. I have 2+gig of 24bit bmp Boris Vallejo images, and some are 10+mb (no kidding).

Originally Posted by meynaf

Strangely I don't often run out of chip memory. Maybe you run some programs which eat too much.

Yes, I do. Hippo Player can eat up a few hundred kb while playing wavs, and with multiple screens open, the chipmem goes down fast. Copying chip to fast is the only solution for this problem.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sure. You don't have a resourced DM game to handle.

No, I havent. I'm just a player here

Originally Posted by meynaf

I checked MCP and it simply refused to work. Ok, I hate installers and tried it by hand

As far as I know all you have to do is add two lines (patchcontrol and then mcp) to your startup-squence. If I were you, I'd download it from aminet again, and try to get it to work. The program really is worth using. If you're using other patches, try removing them

Originally Posted by meynaf

That's exactly what I'm doing !

That's the only right way, as far as I know. Shouldn't cause any troubles... in theory....

Originally Posted by meynaf

I use the pre-view a lot, too.

Good for correcting formatting 'errors'. Can't post without it

Originally Posted by meynaf

Oh, you probably don't even have to "kill" it. Just do your hardware-banging stuff and it won't annoy you. Yet this way can probably only work on old machines, as gfx boards don't have any standard specs.

Yeah, that's true. It's what make peecees suck so much. Love using them, though

Originally Posted by meynaf

What you describe here is not oo and can easily be done without it.

I don't agree. This is the very basis of oo. Assembler just doesn't provide any oo directives. Also, consider that oo should be viewed as an extension of structured programming, and not as a different paradigm. Think about it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

68k rIdiculous compared to 6502, you probably meant the opposite.

I mean ridiculous as in words such as sick/wicked/bad meaning cool, etc

Originally Posted by meynaf

Me, no. But the forum iself apparently has

Just some settings witch have to be taken care of. Hope it's going to get done.

Originally Posted by meynaf

We learn things every day, pal.

Indeed. Would be cool to have an emulation of that stuff on the Amiga.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Probably, but even at the information level the computer is still clueless.

A compiler can't be compared to the brains software. Yes, software, the brain is soft, right

Originally Posted by meynaf

If conscious thought takes billions of neurons to actually work, then it's probably not just a matter of algorithmics.

Just because evolution came up with a way that requires such brute force, doesn't mean it can't be expressed algorithmically. Furthermore, how many neurons does the brain need to calculate something like 1234+5678?

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe not. But if you throw a die, let alone several millions of them at once, even if you know physics you won't predict the result.

Ok, in this case you'd have to know all parameters, making it practically impossible.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Be less talkative next time, eh eh.

Yeah, right

Originally Posted by meynaf

I didn't say the brain can handle that many, but to simulate it you'll have to do that.
About the tasks it performs, consider the simple fact of a face recognition.
Or what "different perspective" has to be looked at ?

But these are simply problems witch are not well understood, and therefore hard to implement. It doesn't mean it can't be done algorithmically.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Nope. Don't agree. The brain is more than a logical information processor. It handles a quasi-infinite different number of levels per input per neuron, where the computer only has 0 or 1.

The brain is thus an analog information processor, while a computer is a discrete one.

Originally Posted by meynaf

That list just shows that Neanderthal might have been more intelligent than we are !

Well, elephants have larger brains than humans, and are not capable of real thought, while chimps, witch have a smaller brain than us are capable of real logical thought. In nature, brain size is not everything.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Consider those two pieces of code and tell me which one is the best :

 add.l var,d1
 add.l var,d2

 move.l var,d0
 add.l d0,d1
 add.l d0,d2

I have no idea what so ever. I've actually written a simple speed test program, but I didn't want to cheat. I'll have a look at it anyway, but if you want to tell me, please do so

Originally Posted by meynaf

Please stop playing BloodNet at once !

It's a pitty, but I'm not playing BloodNet at the moment. I really have to get away from those peecee games (now it's Kohan: Battles of Ahriman)

Originally Posted by meynaf

Anyway with a monitor's loudspeakers you won't hear much difference...

Monitor speakers Doh meynaf! Go buy a simple multi media speaker set right now, or I'm coming over to France to [CENSORED] Anyway, my miggy is hooked up to my stereo system. You can here every sound quality flaw on these, of course. But seriously, do yourself a big favor, and buy some simple speakers with amp. Just don't buy the simplest ones. They will make a huge difference

Originally Posted by meynaf

Once again I ask : what settings ??? You can tweak a lot with mpegaplayer.
Might depend on what sort of music, too. Hard rock needs less quality than a sweet feminine voice

The music I listen to, usually contains heavy synthesizer elements (Trance), and that kind of music needs all the quality you can throw at it. At 24khz/16bit stereo played back in 14bit on Amiga, you can hear that two bits have been chopped off, and you can hear it's 24khz and not 44khz. Not that it sounds bad, but reduce the quality any more and it starts to get annoying, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And for flac, don't expect any cpu time savings. It's usually as costly as mpeg audio.
For waves, ok. If exhausting your HD is no problem. Maybe it's because of that you like prepping them in UAE. Ok now I've understood :-)

Indeed. I recently downloaded 650mb of jpeg pictures witch I converted using IrfanView. That resulted in 2+gig of 24bit bmps (now you know where they came from). So I simply popped the hd into the peecee. Yup, those peecees are good for something other than games after all

Originally Posted by meynaf

You only need to load it from disk if you don't have it installed in chips.
Else how would a CD32 boot ???

Really? I could've sworn I read on the board that ks3.1 needs a patch to boot from cd...

Originally Posted by meynaf

Bah, I don't prep HD's all the time. For backups CF cards are good to me, they don't need to unplug the HD from the miggy. Not to mention they're sooooo silent :-)

Yeah, CF is cool. I actually don't prep'm all the time, either. Would be a good idea to just use CF instead of floppies, actually.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Oh you didn't say that to me !

Actually, I think I did in some other thread!

Originally Posted by meynaf

This requires a lot of care even with 4 characters ; I did it twice or more.
But you probably killed old Dragoth a few dozens of times too, eh ?

No, I haven't. Only time I've killed him, was the first time I played the game seriously. The whole challenge thing is simply based on the fact that the rest of the game isn't very hard. Try it yourself, and see what I mean.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I also end up very rich (not as much as in Captive, okay).
But I would hate to buy dozens of empty flasks just to defeat the boss.

You could just hack the guy to death

Originally Posted by meynaf

Tada, I finally found something you didn't know ! :-)
Here are the answers :

1. Just throw over the pit the little bone you've found, to the place the coins lie, and the wolves will fetch it (just don't stand between them and the pit). By the time they'll also take the coins, and, yes, bring them to you !

2. Use a minion map. As long as the minion is on the same cell as you are, you'll never get caught.

Didn't know the second one. The first, I do know, actually. But throwing the bones is not allowed in the challenge, as it's Ninja skill.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Certainly. Current dungeon has more than 1400 of them now :-)
Yet I would love getting more feedback from you.

I understand. I'm quite rusty, though, because I haven't been playing Amiga games lately. I'm still busy with peecee games. Terrible, I know, but I've got a whole stack of cool peecee games I haven't really played in a serious manner, but witch I did pay cash for. Not a lot of cash, but still. I'll try to give it priority.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, thanks again

You're welcome

Originally Posted by meynaf

How come ? You got fed up ? Or was it just too hard for you ?

See above.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I won't. You'll have to BEG for hints :-)

I won't, mate! I hate spoilers.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Come on, it's not that costly !

I'm strapped for cash at the moment. As usual. Living on a low income at the moment...

Originally Posted by meynaf

Oh yeah ? I still can't understand why some people can be attached to a peecee :-)

It's the games!

Originally Posted by meynaf

You sure I shouldn't ? Oh, well, yes, ok..

Thank you

Originally Posted by meynaf

Fast, yes. But ugly. (sorry)

Yes, 12bit is quite ugly. It's just an addition to save some chipmem. 18Bit looks much better. Also, I've finally optimized the c2p to give me 12 frames for 8bit to 6bit c2p (1280x512). If I were you, I'd consider adding the 3x1 pixel method as an option. It's a lot faster than 1x1 ham rendering in even the lowest quality, let alone good quality.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hmm, the only problem I have with WinUAE is the graphics speed, witch is caused by my 'slow' peecee.

Don't you find it much less reactive than your miggy ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

That sucks then. Any way to fix it?

Not for now, and it's not urgent anyway.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Odd Do you know what causes it?

060 was said to pre-decrement destination before reading/writing source, and my test just showed the opposite. Strange, but I can't tell more.

Originally Posted by Thorham

But that's not always handy. Not all errors are fatal. Suppose you supply your utility with a list of files to rename. If some of the files don't exist or are moved/deleted before renaming, then the files witch can be renamed will not be renamed. If the error handling is done by hand, the program can simply skip the files witch are not found, and just rename the rest, and tell the user witch files were not renamed.

Another example would be reserving a chipmem buffer and then killing the system. If there isn't enough memory, then handling the error by hand lets you reserve fastmem, kill the system, and copy some chipmem to fastmem. Only if the fastmem reservation fails, it's a fatal error, and the program can exit.

It's true that it sucks to handle the errors by hand, but it creates a greater level of flexibility.

I agree it's not always handy, but it covers more than 90% of cases (in my actual programs).
However, my system allows to catch errors such as failure in renaming or memory allocation. See it as the try...catch of high-level languages.
So I can still handle errors by hand when needed

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's always the same with those formats, isn't it? How difficult is it to properly document a format? Bah

Yes, and for MP3, documenting the binary format isn't even enough...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Right. I guess I'll have to do some more reading up on my 68020+ knowledge

Maybe ;-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

I can't give you a concrete example, but lets just say that the first version of my kernel became quite messy because of register passing. In such programs it's better to pass the parameters through memory, I think

Did your kernel actually work ? Or was it yet another unfinished project ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

The good old sliced ham, cool Also, scaling can be done during loading for large images, allowing images of nearly any size. I have 2+gig of 24bit bmp Boris Vallejo images, and some are 10+mb (no kidding).

Scaling during loading ? You'll have to scale to fastmem, because you can't kill the system before you're finished loading.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I do. Hippo Player can eat up a few hundred kb while playing wavs, and with multiple screens open, the chipmem goes down fast. Copying chip to fast is the only solution for this problem.

You use Hippo Player ??? Doh... Play16 is probably better for playing waves, and for the rest, why not DT ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I havent. I'm just a player here

I find dungeon designing more funny than actually playing it. And that code is the main reason I didn't use DM2.

Originally Posted by Thorham

As far as I know all you have to do is add two lines (patchcontrol and then mcp) to your startup-squence. If I were you, I'd download it from aminet again, and try to get it to work. The program really is worth using. If you're using other patches, try removing them

I don't feel the need of changing my patches. What's so great about it ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's the only right way, as far as I know. Shouldn't cause any troubles... in theory....

Peter Kunath was forced to do this too for DeliTracker, because of bugs in audio.device.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, that's true. It's what make peecees suck so much. Love using them, though

But if given same tech level as peecees, Amigas would be much more powerful.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't agree. This is the very basis of oo. Assembler just doesn't provide any oo directives. Also, consider that oo should be viewed as an extension of structured programming, and not as a different paradigm. Think about it.

This is ONE of the bases of oo, but oo is more than that.
It's supposed to be a different paradigm.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I mean ridiculous as in words such as sick/wicked/bad meaning cool, etc

Ok then.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Just some settings witch have to be taken care of. Hope it's going to get done.

Some settings witch, yeah, old wicked witch

Originally Posted by Thorham

Indeed. Would be cool to have an emulation of that stuff on the Amiga.

An emulation ? It requires hardware to actually run, AFAIK even on PC.
But it certainly would be cool to have that hardware on the Amiga.

Originally Posted by Thorham

A compiler can't be compared to the brains software. Yes, software, the brain is soft, right

You can consider the brain is both hardware and software if you like. But I don't think it can be software as you know it.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Just because evolution came up with a way that requires such brute force, doesn't mean it can't be expressed algorithmically. Furthermore, how many neurons does the brain need to calculate something like 1234+5678?

Nonsense. The brain will always interpret, where the computer will execute. They can't be compared.

How many neurons a computation requires is irrelevant, as it can be very different from people to people.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Ok, in this case you'd have to know all parameters, making it practically impossible.

Same for the brain simulation.

Originally Posted by Thorham

But these are simply problems witch are not well understood, and therefore hard to implement. It doesn't mean it can't be done algorithmically.

It doesn't mean it can be done either.
Btw. it's "which", not "witch"

Originally Posted by Thorham

The brain is thus an analog information processor, while a computer is a discrete one.

Yes. Probably.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Well, elephants have larger brains than humans, and are not capable of real thought, while chimps, witch have a smaller brain than us are capable of real logical thought. In nature, brain size is not everything.

Did you actually ask elephants if they were able to think or not ? Same for chimps ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I have no idea what so ever. I've actually written a simple speed test program, but I didn't want to cheat. I'll have a look at it anyway, but if you want to tell me, please do so

I will tell you.

If you speed-test, #2 will be quicker on your 030. But #1 is quicker on 040 - not to mention it's less instructions.
There are other examples.

This says that no solution is the absolute best, it's just more adapted to some situations.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's a pitty, but I'm not playing BloodNet at the moment. I really have to get away from those peecee games (now it's Kohan: Battles of Ahriman)

Beware of Hopkins-Brie syndrom anyway

Originally Posted by Thorham

Monitor speakers Doh meynaf! Go buy a simple multi media speaker set right now, or I'm coming over to France to [CENSORED] Anyway, my miggy is hooked up to my stereo system. You can here every sound quality flaw on these, of course. But seriously, do yourself a big favor, and buy some simple speakers with amp. Just don't buy the simplest ones. They will make a huge difference

A good old CBM monitor is much better than those - cheap or not - stupid PC multi media speakers !

You certainly hear sound quality flaws, but is that a good thing ? Personnally I do not want to hear them

In the past I tried a good stereo system, with seven-band equalizer I fine tuned for that use. So I know what quality means

Originally Posted by Thorham

The music I listen to, usually contains heavy synthesizer elements (Trance), and that kind of music needs all the quality you can throw at it. At 24khz/16bit stereo played back in 14bit on Amiga, you can hear that two bits have been chopped off, and you can hear it's 24khz and not 44khz. Not that it sounds bad, but reduce the quality any more and it starts to get annoying, unfortunately.

From 24 to 22 you won't hear much difference, especially because the original freq is an integer multiple of it (might even be better if down-sampling didn't use a very good algorithm).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Indeed. I recently downloaded 650mb of jpeg pictures witch I converted using IrfanView. That resulted in 2+gig of 24bit bmps (now you know where they came from). So I simply popped the hd into the peecee. Yup, those peecees are good for something other than games after all

But why performing this conversion ? Just for display speed ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Really? I could've sworn I read on the board that ks3.1 needs a patch to boot from cd...

If you have ks 3.0 in rom, yes. Or it might depend on the type of cd drive that's plugged in, I dunno. I never needed to boot from cd anyway.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, CF is cool. I actually don't prep'm all the time, either. Would be a good idea to just use CF instead of floppies, actually.

I use CF instead of floppies. Silent, faster, more data on them, more reliable, not to mention my floppy drive is out of order...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Actually, I think I did in some other thread!

A thread I didn't read, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I haven't. Only time I've killed him, was the first time I played the game seriously. The whole challenge thing is simply based on the fact that the rest of the game isn't very hard. Try it yourself, and see what I mean.

So you saw him turned into a worm at least once. This called for a sequel but there was none

Originally Posted by Thorham

You could just hack the guy to death

That's what I did a few times

Originally Posted by Thorham

Didn't know the second one. The first, I do know, actually. But throwing the bones is not allowed in the challenge, as it's Ninja skill.

Is stealing objects from other champions allowed in the challenge ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I understand. I'm quite rusty, though, because I haven't been playing Amiga games lately. I'm still busy with peecee games. Terrible, I know, but I've got a whole stack of cool peecee games I haven't really played in a serious manner, but witch I did pay cash for. Not a lot of cash, but still. I'll try to give it priority.

You paid cash for pc games ???

Originally Posted by Thorham

See above.

I see.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I won't, mate! I hate spoilers.

Even when you're blocked ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm strapped for cash at the moment. As usual. Living on a low income at the moment...

That's a shame.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's the games!

So you like the games, not the pc

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, 12bit is quite ugly. It's just an addition to save some chipmem. 18Bit looks much better. Also, I've finally optimized the c2p to give me 12 frames for 8bit to 6bit c2p (1280x512). If I were you, I'd consider adding the 3x1 pixel method as an option. It's a lot faster than 1x1 ham rendering in even the lowest quality, let alone good quality.

Quick and ugly renderer is not in the urgent todo list.
Best for me would be pre-loading of next pics while displaying one.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Don't you find it much less reactive than your miggy ?

Yes, on my old peecee I even need to skip one frame. The emulated cpu is still a lot faster than my miggies, though.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Not for now, and it's not urgent anyway.

Without an actual '60 to work on, it would be a pain to fix anyway.

Originally Posted by meynaf

060 was said to pre-decrement destination before reading/writing source, and my test just showed the opposite. Strange, but I can't tell more.

Strange indeed.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I agree it's not always handy, but it covers more than 90% of cases (in my actual programs).
However, my system allows to catch errors such as failure in renaming or memory allocation. See it as the try...catch of high-level languages.
So I can still handle errors by hand when needed

Cool. How did you implement that? I'll have to take a look to see if that is handy in my own frame.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, and for MP3, documenting the binary format isn't even enough...

Why not?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe ;-)

Definitely! But I've started to use '20+ instructions now. Simple things like divu.l and mulu.l. My system frame is still fully 68000 compatible, though.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Did your kernel actually work ? Or was it yet another unfinished project ?

Although unfinished, it does actually work. You can create processes that run at different priorities, there is some basic memory management, of course, and some basic library handling. Currently the message handling system needs to be implemented. The whole project was started about 10 years ago, and although it could still be finished, I'd rather try to make a c++ replacement and write an os in that. Much more fun, and also much easier said than done. Not going to happen any time soon

Originally Posted by meynaf

Scaling during loading ? You'll have to scale to fastmem, because you can't kill the system before you're finished loading.

True, but it's the only way for handling bmp files which are too large to pre-load completely.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You use Hippo Player ??? Doh... Play16 is probably better for playing waves, and for the rest, why not DT ?

Play16 doesn't have a gui, and Hippo plays wavs just fine. I guess I can give Delitracker a try.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I find dungeon designing more funny than actually playing it. And that code is the main reason I didn't use DM2.

Hmm, I'll have to give dungeon making a try then.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I don't feel the need of changing my patches. What's so great about it ?

Read the feature list

Originally Posted by meynaf

Peter Kunath was forced to do this too for DeliTracker, because of bugs in audio.device.

Still, doesn't seem to bad. However, if system bugs make people have to hit the hardware, I suppose it is actually bad

Originally Posted by meynaf

But if given same tech level as peecees, Amigas would be much more powerful.

Perhaps, although I don't see how they would be very different from peecees.

Originally Posted by meynaf

This is ONE of the bases of oo, but oo is more than that.
It's supposed to be a different paradigm.

I know. I just don't see it as a different paradigm, but more like an extension of the structured paradigm.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Some settings witch, yeah, old wicked witch

Yeah, yeah. Very funny

Originally Posted by meynaf

An emulation ? It requires hardware to actually run, AFAIK even on PC.
But it certainly would be cool to have that hardware on the Amiga.

I don't see why it would need hardware, although I don't think an emulation would be very efficiant.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You can consider the brain is both hardware and software if you like. But I don't think it can be software as you know it.

It's not. The mechanics are too different.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Nonsense. The brain will always interpret, where the computer will execute. They can't be compared.

But it's just a bunch of firing neurons! How can neurons interpret anything?

Originally Posted by meynaf

How many neurons a computation requires is irrelevant, as it can be very different from people to people.

I suppose so.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Same for the brain simulation.

In todays world that's quite true.

Originally Posted by meynaf

It doesn't mean it can be done either.

That's true. It's currently unknown. It's just that algorithmic solutions are in these cases the unobvious solutions, and these are very interesting to me.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Btw. it's "which", not "witch"

I know, I know! Don't know why I was making such mistakes, though

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes. Probably.

Hey, we're agreeing on something here

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Did you actually ask elephants if they were able to think or not ? Same for chimps ?

No, I haven't, but they have been tested for intelligence, and the results suggest that elephants lack the chimps logic capability.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I will tell you.

If you speed-test, #2 will be quicker on your 030. But #1 is quicker on 040 - not to mention it's less instructions.
There are other examples.

I've actually read that recently. Something about minimizing the number of instructions on '60s. Pity I don't have one.

Originally Posted by meynaf

This says that no solution is the absolute best, it's just more adapted to some situations.

Yes, but does it mean that evolution will always come up with the best adaptations, or just ones that are good enough?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Beware of Hopkins-Brie syndrom anyway

I don't think that's going to be a problem

Originally Posted by meynaf

A good old CBM monitor is much better than those - cheap or not - stupid PC multi media speakers !

I've recently installed some of those speakers, with sub-woofer, on my moms peecee, and if you're saying that the simple CBM monitor speaker is better than that installed speaker set, then I'm going to

Originally Posted by meynaf

You certainly hear sound quality flaws, but is that a good thing ? Personnally I do not want to hear them

Yes, actually. It means that you get to hear more. In other words, if you have very high quality sound files, then those will actually take advantage of your system.

Originally Posted by meynaf

In the past I tried a good stereo system, with seven-band equalizer I fine tuned for that use. So I know what quality means

Cool, but why aren't you using it any more? I hope it didn't break

Originally Posted by meynaf

From 24 to 22 you won't hear much difference, especially because the original freq is an integer multiple of it (might even be better if down-sampling didn't use a very good algorithm).

But there should be a difference between 24 and 28, right?

Originally Posted by meynaf

But why performing this conversion ? Just for display speed ?

Yes, just for that. Using irfanview on my peecee, the whole conversion process was done quite quickly for so many files. Seemed to be worth it. Also, with a large hd, using bmps on the Amiga is more convenient than jpeg, especially if you're loading them into adpro.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If you have ks 3.0 in rom, yes. Or it might depend on the type of cd drive that's plugged in, I dunno. I never needed to boot from cd anyway.

I don't know, either. It's not a big problem. It would just be cool to be able to boot cds from cold start.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I use CF instead of floppies. Silent, faster, more data on them, more reliable, not to mention my floppy drive is out of order...

That's something I'm going to have to consider using myself, because it sounds good.

Originally Posted by meynaf

A thread I didn't read, I suppose.

I'm almost sure I did tell you.

Originally Posted by meynaf

So you saw him turned into a worm at least once. This called for a sequel but there was none

I vaguely remember something like that. But it's been a long time since I finished the game, so don't blame me. And a sequal might have been nice.

Originally Posted by meynaf

That's what I did a few times

The real mans method

Originally Posted by meynaf

Is stealing objects from other champions allowed in the challenge ?

Isn't that only possible because of a bug? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think it will make it easier.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You paid cash for pc games ???

Oh yes! Quality games such as Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo 2, and a bunch of others. Those games are worth the money, and weren't actually that expensive when I bought them. Warcraft 2 with expansion for six euros anyone?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Even when you're blocked ?

Yes, even then. I always regret reading solutions just because I'm stuck. I really don't like doing it, and have therefore stopped doing it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

That's a shame.

It's not too bad. It gets the rent paid, and I certainly don't have to go hungry. That's more then a lot of people have, so it's ok for a while.

Originally Posted by meynaf

So you like the games, not the pc

You could put it like that.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Quick and ugly renderer is not in the urgent todo list.
Best for me would be pre-loading of next pics while displaying one.

May I suggest that you do implement scaling for larger than screen images? Two advantages: 1. Less chipmem needed to show the image. 2. Faster ham rendering.

Have you considered using 4x1 ham to display 320x256 images? No ham rendering algorithm can beat 4x1 ham for 320x256!

[meynaf]

I've found a new game. It's... merge the two posts !
Will you be able to continue ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I haven't, but they have been tested for intelligence, and the results suggest that elephants lack the chimps logic capability.

Maybe this is simply because they don't need it.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've actually read that recently. Something about minimizing the number of instructions on '60s. Pity I don't have one.

But your 030 fits well in your A1200 and doesn't need a cooling fan.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, but does it mean that evolution will always come up with the best adaptations, or just ones that are good enough?

I am not sure it will be the best adaptations, but I think they will be better than what technology can give.
Anyway life evolves and adapts, and for this it can not be surpassed by machines, which are fixed.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't think that's going to be a problem

I didn't know you had a neural implant

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've recently installed some of those speakers, with sub-woofer, on my moms peecee, and if you're saying that the simple CBM monitor speaker is better than that installed speaker set, then I'm going to

Perhaps. But CBM monitor has two speakers and is bigger than your woofer.

BTW I am not the one who uses composite video output

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, actually. It means that you get to hear more. In other words, if you have very high quality sound files, then those will actually take advantage of your system.

MP3 aren't what I can call high quality sound files, whatever system plays them...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Cool, but why aren't you using it any more? I hope it didn't break

It wasn't mine.

Originally Posted by Thorham

But there should be a difference between 24 and 28, right?

Depends on what you're playing.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, just for that. Using irfanview on my peecee, the whole conversion process was done quite quickly for so many files. Seemed to be worth it. Also, with a large hd, using bmps on the Amiga is more convenient than jpeg, especially if you're loading them into adpro.

And what do you do after loading them in adpro ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't know, either. It's not a big problem. It would just be cool to be able to boot cds from cold start.

Provided you have bootable CDs...

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's something I'm going to have to consider using myself, because it sounds good.

Then feel free to break your DF0

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm almost sure I did tell you.

If so, please tell me where !

Originally Posted by Thorham

I vaguely remember something like that. But it's been a long time since I finished the game, so don't blame me. And a sequal might have been nice.

I would have loved making such a game, but I don't have the gfx. Anyway I have an animation player so that I can see this end sequence without playing :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

The real mans method

Sure, even though I like having a woman in my team

Originally Posted by Thorham

Isn't that only possible because of a bug? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think it will make it easier.

Bug abuse, yes. Take the object, then press space.
And beware, as this may crash the game

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oh yes! Quality games such as Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo 2, and a bunch of others. Those games are worth the money, and weren't actually that expensive when I bought them. Warcraft 2 with expansion for six euros anyone?

Bah, after all it was your money...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, even then. I always regret reading solutions just because I'm stuck. I really don't like doing it, and have therefore stopped doing it.

Sometimes you just can't do otherwise, e.g. on Amberstar.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's not too bad. It gets the rent paid, and I certainly don't have to go hungry. That's more then a lot of people have, so it's ok for a while.

Yes, life doesn't cost much if you have no girlfriend
Having no car helps a lot, too.

Originally Posted by Thorham

You could put it like that.

I do.

Originally Posted by Thorham

May I suggest that you do implement scaling for larger than screen images? Two advantages: 1. Less chipmem needed to show the image. 2. Faster ham rendering.

It's planned, but I have other things to do as well and I can't be everywhere !

I am actually doing the PNG support. Someone else was supposed to do it, but probably never will. Who was the guy again ? I don't remember

Originally Posted by Thorham

Have you considered using 4x1 ham to display 320x256 images? No ham rendering algorithm can beat 4x1 ham for 320x256!

Perhaps this is just using too much chipmem ; I have too few 24bit images that would fit in 320x256 anyway.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, on my old peecee I even need to skip one frame. The emulated cpu is still a lot faster than my miggies, though.

For raw computations, yes. But try some interrupt stuff and you'll be deceived.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Without an actual '60 to work on, it would be a pain to fix anyway.

Certainly !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Cool. How did you implement that? I'll have to take a look to see if that is handy in my own frame.

Remember those old "zcall" macro calls everywhere in my code ? Just add one parameter to them, which is the label to branch to if an error occurs.
Note : still unimplemented on most functions, though, but at least planned.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Why not?

It would just leave you with a bunch of cofficients you don't know what to do with.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Definitely! But I've started to use '20+ instructions now. Simple things like divu.l and mulu.l. My system frame is still fully 68000 compatible, though.

As strange as might seem, I've just put my first bfextu in a program. I feel weird...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Although unfinished, it does actually work. You can create processes that run at different priorities, there is some basic memory management, of course, and some basic library handling. Currently the message handling system needs to be implemented. The whole project was started about 10 years ago, and although it could still be finished, I'd rather try to make a c++ replacement and write an os in that. Much more fun, and also much easier said than done. Not going to happen any time soon

A c++ replacement ? You want to write a slow os ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

True, but it's the only way for handling bmp files which are too large to pre-load completely.

They must be VERY large not to fit in 32 MB

Originally Posted by Thorham

Play16 doesn't have a gui, and Hippo plays wavs just fine. I guess I can give Delitracker a try.

DT2 is the right choice if you have a lot of mods in exotic formats (this is my case). Is good for MP3 too.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hmm, I'll have to give dungeon making a try then.

Yes, good idea.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Read the feature list

I already did. 'Found nothing so great in it...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Still, doesn't seem to bad. However, if system bugs make people have to hit the hardware, I suppose it is actually bad

But our OS allows to do so in a neat manner. Most others don't !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Perhaps, although I don't see how they would be very different from peecees.

Get an old 386 and compare with your 030. Now extrapolate...

Originally Posted by Thorham

I know. I just don't see it as a different paradigm, but more like an extension of the structured paradigm.

For me this just messes things up a little bit more.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, yeah. Very funny

This was just too easy

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't see why it would need hardware, although I don't think an emulation would be very efficiant.

Maybe it can be simulated, but I can't imagine how inefficient that would be !

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's not. The mechanics are too different.

Damn. We seem to agree on a few things after all

Originally Posted by Thorham

But it's just a bunch of firing neurons! How can neurons interpret anything?

That we do not know.

Originally Posted by Thorham

In todays world that's quite true.

May remain true for much longer, as Moore's law has reached its end.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's true. It's currently unknown. It's just that algorithmic solutions are in these cases the unobvious solutions, and these are very interesting to me.

You want to be replaced by a machine one day ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I know, I know! Don't know why I was making such mistakes, though

And, of course, I didn't miss them

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hey, we're agreeing on something here

There must be a mistake then

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

I've found a new game. It's... merge the two posts !
Will you be able to continue ?

I'll try

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe this is simply because they don't need it.

That's not the point. The point is their brains are bigger than ours, while they're not even smarter then chimps.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But your 030 fits well in your A1200 and doesn't need a cooling fan.

Hmm, I thought the '60 didn't need a fan?

Originally Posted by meynaf

I am not sure it will be the best adaptations, but I think they will be better than what technology can give.
Anyway life evolves and adapts, and for this it can not be surpassed by machines, which are fixed.

Machines are not fixed, they're designed by humans . Life's pace of improving is so slow that technology surely can't always be behind.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I didn't know you had a neural implant.

Now you've lost me. Remember, I haven't played BloodNet.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Perhaps. But CBM monitor has two speakers and is bigger than your woofer.

Still, the speaker set I've installed at my moms place sounds better than a 1084s monitor. To me, monitors always sound dreadful for some reason.

Originally Posted by meynaf

BTW I am not the one who uses composite video output.

I've got no choice at the moment

Originally Posted by meynaf

MP3 aren't what I can call high quality sound files, whatever system plays them...

The files obtained from a CD are usually quite good, and they stay good when you encode them to 320kb mp3 files. But not using lossy compression is always better, of course.

Originally Posted by meynaf

It wasn't mine.

That sucks then

Originally Posted by meynaf

Depends on what you're playing.

For the music I usually play it probably will.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And what do you do after loading them in adpro ?

I make IFFs out of them. Now they'll load fast, be in high quality and they don't need to be scaled.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Provided you have bootable CDs...

I would make one. Something like a rescue disk.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Then feel free to break your DF0.

I might

Originally Posted by meynaf

If so, please tell me where !

I think it was in one of your old threads. I can look it up, but do you really want to know?

Originally Posted by meynaf

I would have loved making such a game, but I don't have the gfx. Anyway I have an animation player so that I can see this end sequence without playing :-)

I've seen that program, too, I'm sure of it. If you're looking for DM/CSB/DM2 graphics, they can be obtained.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sure, even though I like having a woman in my team.

My team is the one man team

Originally Posted by meynaf

Bug abuse, yes. Take the object, then press space.
And beware, as this may crash the game.

I'm certainly not going to use/try this

Originally Posted by meynaf

Bah, after all it was your money...

Why bah? Do you hate peecees that much?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sometimes you just can't do otherwise, e.g. on Amberstar.

Yeah, or Riven. Boy was I stuck there. I still regretted looking up parts of the solution.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, life doesn't cost much if you have no girlfriend
Having no car helps a lot, too.

Indeed

Originally Posted by meynaf

I am actually doing the PNG support. Someone else was supposed to do it, but probably never will. Who was the guy again ? I don't remember.

Sorry for taking forever I was actually still going to do it. I'm just having trouble with making a good Huffmann decoder, that's all. To me there's no point in making one if it's going to be slower/as fast as existing ones. Anyway, if you haven't started on the PNG decoding yet, and are still busy doing Huffmann decoding, then I do have a PNG decoder part for you.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Perhaps this is just using too much chipmem ; I have too few 24bit images that would fit in 320x256 anyway.

Me neither. It's just for completeness.

Originally Posted by meynaf

For raw computations, yes. But try some interrupt stuff and you'll be deceived.

I'll try. I've got some code that I can use for that.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Remember those old "zcall" macro calls everywhere in my code ? Just add one parameter to them, which is the label to branch to if an error occurs.
Note : still unimplemented on most functions, though, but at least planned.

In my frame it's now implemented like this:

bra.err	macro
	cmp.l	#-1,-68(a5)
	beq	\1
	endm

call	macro
	bsr	\1
	bra.err	exit
	endm
	
catch	macro
	bsr	\1
	bra.err	\2
	endm

Originally Posted by meynaf

It would just leave you with a bunch of cofficients you don't know what to do with.

Then I guess they should explain exactly how it works, instead of making those sloppy docs about it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

As strange as might seem, I've just put my first bfextu in a program. I feel weird...

Cool

Originally Posted by meynaf

A c++ replacement ? You want to write a slow os ?

No, I don't. Is slowness always a compilers fault? Are peecee programs today bloated just because of compilers? No. It's usually the human who gets it wrong. And just improving the way coding is done would already make a huge difference.

Originally Posted by meynaf

They must be VERY large not to fit in 32 MB.

Not everyone has 32mb or more

Originally Posted by meynaf

DT2 is the right choice if you have a lot of mods in exotic formats (this is my case). Is good for MP3 too.

Exotic formats, eh? I'll download it right away

Originally Posted by meynaf

I already did. 'Found nothing so great in it...

So, what patches are you using then?

Originally Posted by meynaf

But our OS allows to do so in a neat manner. Most others don't !

Absolutely right, mate

Originally Posted by meynaf

Get an old 386 and compare with your 030. Now extrapolate...

Yes, but that doesn't mean a modern Amiga would be that much more powerful then a peecee.

Originally Posted by meynaf

For me this just messes things up a little bit more.

How so?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe it can be simulated, but I can't imagine how inefficient that would be !

Still good enough for learning how to use such a system without needing any extra hardware.

Originally Posted by meynaf

May remain true for much longer, as Moore's law has reached its end.

Unless those tera herz transistors become usable.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You want to be replaced by a machine one day ?

No, I want to enter a machine one day

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's not the point. The point is their brains are bigger than ours, while they're not even smarter then chimps.

Maybe they're not smart, ok. And so ? Is being smart a necessity in life ? What is being smart anyway ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hmm, I thought the '60 didn't need a fan?

I think some 060 need it, while others don't. But anyway it doesn't correctly fit in the A1200 (too high).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Machines are not fixed, they're designed by humans . Life's pace of improving is so slow that technology surely can't always be behind.

What I was saying is that machines don't evolve by themselves.
Moreover, life's pace of improvement isn't that slow. It can adapt quite quickly : see the viruses which become resistant to antibiotics, see the incredible wild life that appeared at Tchernobyl (they've never seen boars so big !).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Now you've lost me. Remember, I haven't played BloodNet.

Well, ok. Never mind ;-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

Still, the speaker set I've installed at my moms place sounds better than a 1084s monitor. To me, monitors always sound dreadful for some reason.

I'm not sure 1084 monitors have stereo sound. Anyway my 1083S is good enough for me.
What did you compare to actually prove which one sounds better ? If it's not the same music with the same replay freq (and maybe the same machine) then it's not fair !

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've got no choice at the moment

Isn't that moment starting to be a little bit long ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

The files obtained from a CD are usually quite good, and they stay good when you encode them to 320kb mp3 files. But not using lossy compression is always better, of course.

Quite good, but not high quality. CDs aren't perfect either.
However when I play an MP3 on my miggy I usually can't tell if that's the mp3 or a pre-decoded wave.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That sucks then

And it was long ago. Doesn't miss me a lot anyway.

Originally Posted by Thorham

For the music I usually play it probably will.

For trance ? I don't think so. Synthesizer doesn't need that much quality.

BTW did you calibrate your 14 bit output ? If yes, did you change your HippoPlayer settings after that ? Did you actually hear the difference ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I make IFFs out of them. Now they'll load fast, be in high quality and they don't need to be scaled.

So you don't need a particular viewer then. And can't adpro directly load jpegs ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I would make one. Something like a rescue disk.

You don't need a CD for that. Or it will be 99% empty

Originally Posted by Thorham

I might

Originally Posted by Thorham

I think it was in one of your old threads. I can look it up, but do you really want to know?

Yes, I really want to know if my memory is able to eat such an information () or if you indeed didn't tell that to me.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've seen that program, too, I'm sure of it. If you're looking for DM/CSB/DM2 graphics, they can be obtained.

I've seen no program which does that, just tricks to see the end sequence by renaming files.
About the program I use, I made it and didn't release so you certainly can't have seen it ;-)

DM/CSB/DM2 graphics are easy for me to get, perhaps I could do something with them, but I'd prefer new graphics.

Originally Posted by Thorham

My team is the one man team

But, mate, I can't live without my dear Het !

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm certainly not going to use/try this

I've read that if you press space twice you can actually duplicate a character. Also, some DM versions (e.g. v3.6) allow you to go through walls under some conditions. But you don't want to try this, ok

Originally Posted by Thorham

Why bah? Do you hate peecees that much?

You already know the answer to that ;-)
But I just meant you don't need to pay to get flooded by lots of games you have no time to play.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, or Riven. Boy was I stuck there. I still regretted looking up parts of the solution.

Strangely I didn't regret looking in a solution. Especially when I discovered I would never have been able to find the clue myself !
For Amberstar it's even worse, because a bug inverted two riddle answers...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sorry for taking forever I was actually still going to do it. I'm just having trouble with making a good Huffmann decoder, that's all. To me there's no point in making one if it's going to be slower/as fast as existing ones.

I started from JPEG's decoder code, but I have to admit that vPNG is bloody fast...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Anyway, if you haven't started on the PNG decoding yet, and are still busy doing Huffmann decoding, then I do have a PNG decoder part for you.

Ahem... Huffman decoding is done. Not that complex after all. If you're speaking about Paeth stuff and so, I have done it already too.
However, PNGs encoded with all possible settings would be handy, e.g. 16-bit sampled ones, grayscale, progressive, alpha channel, and nasty combinations of these.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Me neither. It's just for completeness.

Sorry, completeness isn't in the todo list

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'll try. I've got some code that I can use for that.

Yes, please try. Coding a lot on peecees will make you understand a few things about them.

Originally Posted by Thorham

In my frame it's now implemented like this:

May be dangerous if A5 gets trashed !
And I wonder what the "exit" label points to. When an error occurs you still need to display some message explaining it, not just exiting ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Then I guess they should explain exactly how it works, instead of making those sloppy docs about it.

Yes. But if they explain and you haven't enough math knowledge to fully understand, it's the same as if they didn't explain.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Cool

And guess where it has been put ? Right in the png's bit reader !

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I don't. Is slowness always a compilers fault? Are peecee programs today bloated just because of compilers? No. It's usually the human who gets it wrong. And just improving the way coding is done would already make a huge difference.

Still, c++ will be 2-4 times slower than asm, not because of the compiler (which does what it can), but because of its mere architecture.
Program are bloated for various reasons. One may be the limits of the programming language.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Not everyone has 32mb or more

Maybe, but fastmem isn't a real problem (for a viewer) even if you're short of it. Chipmem is.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Exotic formats, eh? I'll download it right away

There are also lots of extensions for it (e.g. more supported formats), that you may wish to look at.

Originally Posted by Thorham

So, what patches are you using then?

MultiCX (small, easy to start/stop - and no mui for config !).
Also, SetPatch 40.14, and... err... a little rom patch I wrote myself ;-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, but that doesn't mean a modern Amiga would be that much more powerful then a peecee.

Much more powerful, maybe not. But certainly much more user-friendly, easier to configure and reliable. Without suppleness, strength is nothing.

Originally Posted by Thorham

How so?

Because object-oriented code isn't maintainable. If you've ever worked as a professionnal programmer needing to add something in a hurry (as I did), then you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Still good enough for learning how to use such a system without needing any extra hardware.

Right.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Unless those tera herz transistors become usable.

There are limits anyway. Perhaps you should know that you can't give an important information to a single particle, which is subject to disintegrate without warning. Speed of light can be a problem, too...
For now it seems to be the frequency of lasers used to carve the circuitry.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I want to enter a machine one day

Wanna merge into a machine ? Right. Let me know when you'll do it ; I'll come to hack/reprogram you

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe they're not smart, ok. And so ? Is being smart a necessity in life ? What is being smart anyway ?

The point was optimization, and how brain size isn't directly linked to inteligence, showing evolution doesn't just produce optimal results all the time, thus there being room for improvement.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I think some 060 need it, while others don't. But anyway it doesn't correctly fit in the A1200 (too high).

It doesn't fit right? I've seen those Blizzard 1260s and they look like they fit.

Originally Posted by meynaf

What I was saying is that machines don't evolve by themselves.
Moreover, life's pace of improvement isn't that slow. It can adapt quite quickly : see the viruses which become resistant to antibiotics, see the incredible wild life that appeared at Tchernobyl (they've never seen boars so big !).

Yes, but where is it going? This sort of thing can go on and on without actually going anywhere interesting.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I'm not sure 1084 monitors have stereo sound. Anyway my 1083S is good enough for me.

Isn't the 1084s supposed to be the stereo version?

Originally Posted by meynaf

What did you compare to actually prove which one sounds better ? If it's not the same music with the same replay freq (and maybe the same machine) then it's not fair !

I didn't compare directly. It's just from memory

Originally Posted by meynaf

Isn't that moment starting to be a little bit long ?

A bloody week would've been too long

Originally Posted by meynaf

Quite good, but not high quality. CDs aren't perfect either.
However when I play an MP3 on my miggy I usually can't tell if that's the mp3 or a pre-decoded wave.

CDs could be better if they just increased sampling rate and nr of bits per sample. But the space on a CD is limited. I've also heard they filter the music that goes on CDs on purpose About mp3 decoding; it uses up to much cpu time to use it while doing other things.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And it was long ago. Doesn't miss me a lot anyway.

I would certainly miss it. Music sounds richer from a stereo system.

Originally Posted by meynaf

For trance? I don't think so. Synthesizer doesn't need that much quality.

Still, I like to keep music sounding as clean as possible.

Originally Posted by meynaf

BTW did you calibrate your 14 bit output ? If yes, did you change your HippoPlayer settings after that ? Did you actually hear the difference ?

Yes, I did. Didn't notice much of an improvement, though.

Originally Posted by meynaf

So you don't need a particular viewer then. And can't adpro directly load jpegs ?

Adpro is too slow, especially for jpegs That little viewer I'm working on is very fast for bmps, and since I have 2+ gigs of them, speed is important. When I find a nice image, I use Adpro for producing a high quality iff from the image.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You don't need a CD for that. Or it will be 99% empty

You can have a whole working system on a CD. Booting from one beats floppies. The cf card route is probably the best way to go, though.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, I really want to know if my memory is able to eat such an information () or if you indeed didn't tell that to me.

Perhaps I didn't I'll have a look anyway.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I've seen no program which does that, just tricks to see the end sequence by renaming files.
About the program I use, I made it and didn't release so you certainly can't have seen it ;-)

I remember there being a way to play the animation, I just can't remember what is was.

Originally Posted by meynaf

DM/CSB/DM2 graphics are easy for me to get, perhaps I could do something with them, but I'd prefer new graphics.

New graphics are always better. So, how are your drawing skills?

Originally Posted by meynaf

But, mate, I can't live without my dear Het !

What's so cool about her?

Originally Posted by meynaf

I've read that if you press space twice you can actually duplicate a character. Also, some DM versions (e.g. v3.6) allow you to go through walls under some conditions. But you don't want to try this, ok

Most certainly not.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You already know the answer to that ;-)
But I just meant you don't need to pay to get flooded by lots of games you have no time to play.

They're just games I've bought over the years since I got my peecee.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Strangely I didn't regret looking in a solution. Especially when I discovered I would never have been able to find the clue myself !
For Amberstar it's even worse, because a bug inverted two riddle answers...

I can see how that would require a solution.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Ahem... Huffman decoding is done. Not that complex after all. If you're speaking about Paeth stuff and so, I have done it already too.
However, PNGs encoded with all possible settings would be handy, e.g. 16-bit sampled ones, grayscale, progressive, alpha channel, and nasty combinations of these.

Hey, I was still going to do it. I had a lot of trouble figuring out a very fast method though, and have been putting it off. However, I have been working on the PNG part, which is actually almost finished. The thing it needs most right now is testing. You should have asked me about this, because my PNG code does the things you would like to see.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, please try. Coding a lot on peecees will make you understand a few things about them.

Must admit I haven't programmed peecees a lot.

Originally Posted by meynaf

May be dangerous if A5 gets trashed !
And I wonder what the "exit" label points to. When an error occurs you still need to display some message explaining it, not just exiting ?

A5 trashing wouldn't be good, no. Currently, no messages are displayed, because I'm working from within AsmOne. All the routines in the frame currently always return the same error values, for messages, that would have to change.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes. But if they explain and you haven't enough math knowledge to fully understand, it's the same as if they didn't explain.

How hard can that math business be anyway? It's probably just the notation.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And guess where it has been put ? Right in the png's bit reader !

Thought so

Originally Posted by meynaf

Still, c++ will be 2-4 times slower than asm, not because of the compiler (which does what it can), but because of its mere architecture.
Program are bloated for various reasons. One may be the limits of the programming language.

Not a very well designed language, if it causes bloat.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe, but fastmem isn't a real problem (for a viewer) even if you're short of it. Chipmem is.

Isn't it always

Originally Posted by meynaf

There are also lots of extensions for it (e.g. more supported formats), that you may wish to look at.

Sounds good

Originally Posted by meynaf

MultiCX (small, easy to start/stop - and no mui for config !).
Also, SetPatch 40.14, and... err... a little rom patch I wrote myself ;-)

You're telling me about MCX? Used to use that program until I switched to MCP And what's wrong with mui?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Because object-oriented code isn't maintainable. If you've ever worked as a professionnal programmer needing to add something in a hurry (as I did), then you'll see what I mean.

When programming, in a hurry shouldn't exist. It's such a shame that they screw up these simple things in professional environments. Maintainable? What's maintainable? A one million line source code? People still have to learn the meaning of the word.

Originally Posted by meynaf

There are limits anyway. Perhaps you should know that you can't give an important information to a single particle, which is subject to disintegrate without warning. Speed of light can be a problem, too...
For now it seems to be the frequency of lasers used to carve the circuitry.

But who knows how much the circuitry itself can bee improved. Also, what's going to be invented in the next 50 years? No one knows.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

The point was optimization, and how brain size isn't directly linked to inteligence, showing evolution doesn't just produce optimal results all the time, thus there being room for improvement.

But perhaps intelligence isn't a goal of life, and evolution sometimes simply doesn't need it. If so, it won't come.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It doesn't fit right? I've seen those Blizzard 1260s and they look like they fit.

In original, unmodified A1200 case ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, but where is it going? This sort of thing can go on and on without actually going anywhere interesting.

Interesting for whom ? And should it be going anywhere at all ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Isn't the 1084s supposed to be the stereo version?

If it's really 1084S, yes, but not if it's just 1084. On the other hand, maybe it's just not as good as a 1083.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I didn't compare directly. It's just from memory

If that's old memory...

Originally Posted by Thorham

A bloody week would've been too long

So when is that going to change ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

CDs could be better if they just increased sampling rate and nr of bits per sample. But the space on a CD is limited. I've also heard they filter the music that goes on CDs on purpose

I've read they interpolate what can not be read. Or maybe filtering is mandatory : even if you can't hear the unavoidable 44100 hz buzz, you would hear its harmonics.

Originally Posted by Thorham

About mp3 decoding; it uses up to much cpu time to use it while doing other things.

If you do it while you type text, then it's enough
Also, perhaps you can benefit of putting that jumper back for 60ns timing...

Originally Posted by Thorham

I would certainly miss it. Music sounds richer from a stereo system.

And sometimes it just sounds bad because it wasn't made for it (can be the case with soundtracker music).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Still, I like to keep music sounding as clean as possible.

Ahem... now I wonder who suggested me to just drop that mpeg audio frequency anti-alias filter

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I did. Didn't notice much of an improvement, though.

You simply can't hear the difference between 14 and 16 bits and not notice a major change after the 14 bit calibration, I even heard it on my second machine, which is plugged to an old Atari SC1435 monitor !
This could be HippoPlayer. Please try Play16, and tell me if you hear a difference. Also, please post its output here (configure its icon tooltypes to have VERBOSITY=1 or add verbosity 1 to its command line).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Adpro is too slow, especially for jpegs That little viewer I'm working on is very fast for bmps, and since I have 2+ gigs of them, speed is important. When I find a nice image, I use Adpro for producing a high quality iff from the image.

Well, I guess it's your way. But it can't be mine, as I have 1.9 (formerly 2+) gigs of jpegs...

Originally Posted by Thorham

You can have a whole working system on a CD. Booting from one beats floppies. The cf card route is probably the best way to go, though.

You can have a whole working system on a floppy too. You have an Amiga, remember. It's not a pc.
The cf card is only useful for backups.
But I never needed to boot on anything but my HD for now. If one partition is out of order (never happened), then another also contains the relevant tools.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Perhaps I didn't I'll have a look anyway.

Yes, please.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I remember there being a way to play the animation, I just can't remember what is was.

Then it was that. Just rename the ENDA.DAT file into TITL.DAT, and you will see the end.
Note that my player also handles CSB's intro/end (same anim format).

Originally Posted by Thorham

New graphics are always better. So, how are your drawing skills?

My drawing skills are very poor. New graphics would also allow to do things that weren't in the original game. Like, say, going outside and take a boat to go to another land ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

What's so cool about her?

Very good magic caster, and good-looking too

Originally Posted by Thorham

They're just games I've bought over the years since I got my peecee.

And you didn't play them right after you bought them ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

I can see how that would require a solution.

Sure. The man who did it had to phone to the game's authors in Germany !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hey, I was still going to do it. I had a lot of trouble figuring out a very fast method though, and have been putting it off. However, I have been working on the PNG part, which is actually almost finished. The thing it needs most right now is testing. You should have asked me about this, because my PNG code does the things you would like to see.

I'm sorry, but after 6 months of "I'm going to do it", a day comes when I want to do things myself (took me 4 days or so).
Anyway almost everything is already present in my PNG decoder, but I do not want to release untested code.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Must admit I haven't programmed peecees a lot.

Apart from the peecees, I programmed a lot of things ranging from cell phone (Symbian) to big computer occupying a whole building's level (IBM C370), and the more I did, the more I loved my Miggy.

Originally Posted by Thorham

A5 trashing wouldn't be good, no. Currently, no messages are displayed, because I'm working from within AsmOne. All the routines in the frame currently always return the same error values, for messages, that would have to change.

For me this is done... even though the messages are in french

Originally Posted by Thorham

How hard can that math business be anyway? It's probably just the notation.

Well, if you can tell me what's the difference between Fourier transform and Discrete Cosine Transform...
But you may also grab ISO 11172-3 and tell me what you think of it.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Thought so

But you're still welcome to find something that does the same as bfextu d3{d2:d5},d1 in less than 10 clock cycles. (d3 stream data, d2 bits available, d5 bits required, d1 result)

Originally Posted by Thorham

Not a very well designed language, if it causes bloat.

Any language but asm will give you (variable amout of) bloat. This won't be seen for small functions if you have a good compiler, but for whole programs it makes a lot of difference.
C++ will be slower than C if you use OO features, and C is among the fastest languages - even though there might be lots of things to say about its not-so-readable syntax...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Isn't it always

Not always, at least for me. Of course badly written programs eat more of it than they should

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sounds good

Yes, and what's even better is that if you find an unsupported format, you can write your own player module for it ! (I did a few)
I also suggest you grab the fantastic 14-bit Noteplayer from Chris Hodges.

Originally Posted by Thorham

You're telling me about MCX? Used to use that program until I switched to MCP And what's wrong with mui?

Yes, I'm telling about MCX. But not the last versions, which aren't as good as the 2.57 I'm using.
And you dare to ask what's wrong with that bloatware called mui ???

Originally Posted by Thorham

When programming, in a hurry shouldn't exist. It's such a shame that they screw up these simple things in professional environments. Maintainable? What's maintainable? A one million line source code? People still have to learn the meaning of the word.

When you code as a professionnal, you're always in a hurry because of the business model. What's sold to customers is a solution that must cost as little as possible for them to accept buying, and reducing costs is reducing time.
Now you end up with ugly, buggy code. But you still have your customer.
About being maintainable, some languages are more readable than others, and right comments at right places improve it. Of course it won't be perfect, but even a one million lines source code can be very readable if correctly split into modules, and modular approach, even though an OO concept, is better done IMO without OO.

Originally Posted by Thorham

But who knows how much the circuitry itself can bee improved. Also, what's going to be invented in the next 50 years? No one knows.

Who knows ? I think Intel engineers know a lot about that and I wouldn't want to be at their place.
Also, what'll be invented will certainly not be what we imagine now. Still, I'm ready to bet we won't see quantum computers replacing our desktops even in 50 years from now. But that's just my opinion, of course ;-)

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Interesting for whom ? And should it be going anywhere at all ?

Originally Posted by meynaf

But perhaps intelligence isn't a goal of life, and evolution sometimes simply doesn't need it.

No, it's not. Life's goal seems to be just to keep spreading. A simple cycle of life, procreation and death. From a human viewpoint, this isn't very interesting.

Originally Posted by meynaf

In an unmodified A1200 case?

As far as I know, but that's just from old magazine reviews, and as I've never had one, I might be wrong.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If it's really 1084S, yes, but not if it's just 1084. On the other hand, maybe it's just not as good as a 1083.

I've had both. From memory, they sound about the same.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If that's old memory...

Yes, it is.

Originally Posted by meynaf

So when is it going to change?

When I have the money, and I have to find a good solution, too. May take a while unfortunately

Originally Posted by meynaf

I've read they interpolate what can't be read. Or maybe filtering is mandatory: even if you can't hear the unavoidable 44100 hz buzz, you would hear its harmonics.

From what I've heard, they filter frequencies lower than 50 hertz away. Guess there's always going to be something to complain about in the digital audio department.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If you do it while you type text, then it's enough.
Also, perhaps you can benefit of putting that jumper back for 60ns timing.

I don't just type text, I work with some other apps as well. That jumper was broken, and I've simply hardwired the jumper connection, so it's back to 60ns again.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And sometimes it just sounds bad because it wasn't made for it (can be the case with soundtracker music).

Never had a problem with that. Tracked music with good eight bit samples actually sounds quite good on my system.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Ahem. now I wonder who suggested me to just drop that mpeg audio frequency anti-alias filter.

Hehe, I did, didn't I

Originally Posted by meynaf

You simply can't hear the difference between 14 and 16 bits and not notice a major change after the 14 bit calibration, I even heard it on my second machine, which is plugged to an old Atari SC1435 monitor!
This could be HippoPlayer. Please try Play16, and tell me if you hear a difference. Also, please post its output here.

Yes, it could well be HippoPlayer. This needs testing. I've downloaded Play16 and will try it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, I guess it's your way. But it can't be mine, as I have 1.9 (formerly 2+) gigs of jpegs...

Now that's a lot of jpegs. I can see how you're not interested in my method

Originally Posted by meynaf

You can have a whole working system on a floppy too.
The cf card is only useful for backups.
But I never needed to boot on anything but my HD for now. If one partition is out of order, then another also contains the relevant tools.

Yes, but on a cd, you can also have the backups, which seems convenient to me.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, please.

I did, and guess what? I couldn't find it! I'm starting to think it's a false memory Anyway, until I remembered that I didn't complete the game in the challenge, I thought I did! Man, I think I used to drink too much beer

Originally Posted by meynaf

Then it was that. Just rename the ENDA.DAT file into TITL.DAT, and you will see the end.
Note that my player also handles CSB's intro/end (same anim format).

Yes, that might be it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

My drawing skills are very poor. New graphics would also allow to do things that weren't in the original game. Like, say, going outside and take a boat to go to another land ?

That's a shame. I used to get reasonable grades in mandatory art class in high school, but I'm only really capable of copying objects with a pencil. Editing bitmap graphics is something I can do, too, but drawing good game graphics is something I've never tried. Being able to travel around like in Ultima, would be quite cool, and would unfortunately need new graphics. Pity really.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Very good magic caster, and good-looking too.

Can't you swap her with Torham somehow?

Originally Posted by meynaf

And you didn't play them right after you bought them ?

Not all of them. They're good games, which is why I bought them. When I'm fed up with a game, I simply move on to the next one

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sure. The man who did it had to phone to the game's authors in Germany !

Now that

Originally Posted by meynaf

I'm sorry, but after 6 months of "I'm going to do it", a day comes when I want to do things myself (took me 4 days or so).
Anyway almost everything is already present in my PNG decoder, but I do not want to release untested code.

I'm very sorry for putting it off for so long However, the PNG decoding part only needs testing with the various image formats, and because that code is quite simple, that would've been easy enough. The point is, it could've saved you some time and effort not having to write that part yourself.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Apart from the peecees, I programmed a lot of things ranging from cell phone (Symbian) to big computer occupying a whole building's level (IBM C370), and the more I did, the more I loved my Miggy.

Wow, does everything suck that badly?

Originally Posted by meynaf

For me this is done... even though the messages are in french

Good idea, and very easy to implement in my frame. It's just that AsmOne makes such functions a little bit useless, unless I would just open my own output window, that is.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, if you can tell me what's the difference between Fourier transform and Discrete Cosine Transform...
But you may also grab ISO 11172-3 and tell me what you think of it.

No, I can't. But once you know math notation well enough, how hard could it be? As for the ISO spec, I'll look at it, but it probably won't do any good with my current knowledge.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But you're still welcome to find something that does the same as bfextu d3{d2:d5},d1 in less than 10 clock cycles. (d3 stream data, d2 bits available, d5 bits required, d1 result)

I'll have to look that instruction up. I still think it's possible to do it faster by using a table, so you can decode multiple smaller symbols at the same time.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Any language but asm will give you (variable amout of) bloat. This won't be seen for small functions if you have a good compiler, but for whole programs it makes a lot of difference.
C++ will be slower than C if you use OO features, and C is among the fastest languages - even though there might be lots of things to say about its not-so-readable syntax...

Yes, but the problem with asm is that it's not very portable. Sure, high level function written in asm can be translated to another cpu, but you'll end up with crappy code, of course. That's why I want a c++ replacement if I would ever try to write my own os again. Besides, 68k is the only cpu I would actually want to do that in asm anyway, so a compiler is needed.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Not always, at least for me. Of course badly written programs eat more of it than they should.

My viewer only uses too much chipmem, because I haven't written a fully functional screen open routine yet. It only handles full screen at the moment. It just hasn't been a priority for me yet.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, and what's even better is that if you find an unsupported format, you can write your own player module for it ! (I did a few)
I also suggest you grab the fantastic 14-bit Noteplayer from Chris Hodges.

Ah, yes, I will certainly do that. How's Delitracker's wav playback?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, I'm telling about MCX. But not the last versions, which aren't as good as the 2.57 I'm using.
And you dare to ask what's wrong with that bloatware called mui ???

The reason I use MCP now, is that it does what I needed from MCX and more, like making the gui look better and taking care of all the assigns. Very handy. And about mui, yes it's bloated, but it works well enough for me, even though I don't like it that much.

Originally Posted by meynaf

When you code as a professionnal, you're always in a hurry because of the business model. What's sold to customers is a solution that must cost as little as possible for them to accept buying, and reducing costs is reducing time.

About being maintainable, some languages are more readable than others, and right comments at right places improve it. Of course it won't be perfect, but even a one million lines source code can be very readable if correctly split into modules, and modular approach, even though an OO concept, is better done IMO without OO.

That's what I what I thought. Those silly customors are demanding too much for too little They don't realize that it takes time to create something that is of a good quality level. But what can you do when you're running a business? Tell the customer that they're wrong No one is going to do that.

Anyway, I do like to know what it is you dislike about oop so much that you don't want to use it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Who knows ? I think Intel engineers know a lot about that and I wouldn't want to be at their place.

Me neither For some of them it's probably just a challenge anyway. People can do these things for the fun of it and not just for the money.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Also, what'll be invented will certainly not be what we imagine now. Still, I'm ready to bet we won't see quantum computers replacing our desktops even in 50 years from now. But that's just my opinion, of course ;-)

That's fur sure. Remember flying cars? Except for photographs of prototypes, I've never seen one And quantum computers might not be that far away, then again, who knows indeed

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, it's not. Life's goal seems to be just to keep spreading. A simple cycle of life, procreation and death. From a human viewpoint, this isn't very interesting.

Yes, man, this is Life. But without any living entity, there is nothing and there cannot be anything.

Originally Posted by Thorham

As far as I know, but that's just from old magazine reviews, and as I've never had one, I might be wrong.

I never saw one either, I just heard the A1200 needed to be raised up afterwards because of the height of this.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've had both. From memory, they sound about the same.

I had two 1083S and they didn't exactly sound the same, so I can't tell

Originally Posted by Thorham

When I have the money, and I have to find a good solution, too. May take a while unfortunately

Money again, yeah. Decadent capitalism

Originally Posted by Thorham

From what I've heard, they filter frequencies lower than 50 hertz away. Guess there's always going to be something to complain about in the digital audio department.

I don't think things under 50 hz are even hearable at all, but if they are, are they anything but parasites ?
Maybe we just need to go back to vinyl ;-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't just type text, I work with some other apps as well.

Are they apps that need a lot of cpu power ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

That jumper was broken, and I've simply hardwired the jumper connection, so it's back to 60ns again.

Good thing. Now perhaps that mpega library needs to be worked on again...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Never had a problem with that. Tracked music with good eight bit samples actually sounds quite good on my system.

Of course they sound good, but you have nothing else to compare (apart memory, ok ).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hehe, I did, didn't I

Yes. Maybe this deserves a punishment, but I won't. (you're too far away )

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, it could well be HippoPlayer. This needs testing. I've downloaded Play16 and will try it.

And now ? How does it sound, what does it say when playing ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Now that's a lot of jpegs. I can see how you're not interested in my method

Certainly. That whole lot of jpegs was the main reason I needed to write my picture viewer !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, but on a cd, you can also have the backups, which seems convenient to me.

Not all the backups if your hd is full enough ! Of my 20 gigs, perhaps 3 are still free...
However, on a floppy you can write things. On a CD everything's fixed.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I did, and guess what? I couldn't find it! I'm starting to think it's a false memory Anyway, until I remembered that I didn't complete the game in the challenge, I thought I did! Man, I think I used to drink too much beer

Are you sure it's really beer ? Maybe you need to stop with those nice smelling herbs too

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's a shame. I used to get reasonable grades in mandatory art class in high school, but I'm only really capable of copying objects with a pencil. Editing bitmap graphics is something I can do, too, but drawing good game graphics is something I've never tried. Being able to travel around like in Ultima, would be quite cool, and would unfortunately need new graphics. Pity really.

Well, good game graphics aren't required to just start a project, readable graphics are enough (that is, perhaps not cute, but understandable ; you can't admire but you clearly see what it is).

I like Ultima-style, not Ultima itself but games with a similar system and a dungeon view, such as Ambermoon (I'm currently playing Dragonflight).

I dream of making one huge game, with many locations, many dungeons, many monsters, many objects, many characters... <sigh>

Originally Posted by Thorham

Can't you swap her with Torham somehow?

Swap a cute girl with a man ? No way !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Not all of them. They're good games, which is why I bought them. When I'm fed up with a game, I simply move on to the next one

If you got fed up with some, then perhaps they're not that good :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm very sorry for putting it off for so long However, the PNG decoding part only needs testing with the various image formats, and because that code is quite simple, that would've been easy enough. The point is, it could've saved you some time and effort not having to write that part yourself.

May be it could have saved me some time and effort, but the delay just seemed too long

It's not as simple as it ought to, especially when that progressive stuff comes into play (yeah I support it).

What's needed now is testing, with all possible formats. Do you have various PNGs for that ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Wow, does everything suck that badly?

I can't say everything sucked, but nothing was at level with the miggy.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Good idea, and very easy to implement in my frame. It's just that AsmOne makes such functions a little bit useless, unless I would just open my own output window, that is.

But perhaps some programs will need to be run separately from AsmOne one day...

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I can't. But once you know math notation well enough, how hard could it be? As for the ISO spec, I'll look at it, but it probably won't do any good with my current knowledge.

You can understand math notation without understanding too much of what it means... Anyway there aren't many notations in the spec. It just speaks about things such as hybrid filter without explaining what they are.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'll have to look that instruction up. I still think it's possible to do it faster by using a table, so you can decode multiple smaller symbols at the same time.

If you want to try that, be warned : bits that follow a symbol depend on that symbol (can be a size, a distance, another symbol or just be meaningless because it was the last symbol).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, but the problem with asm is that it's not very portable. Sure, high level function written in asm can be translated to another cpu, but you'll end up with crappy code, of course. That's why I want a c++ replacement if I would ever try to write my own os again. Besides, 68k is the only cpu I would actually want to do that in asm anyway, so a compiler is needed.

"Portable" is meaningless nowadays. It just means something can work on PC, PC and PC.

Moreover, operating systems aren't portable by essence. If you want to make a portable os, you'll be limited to what's common between architectures.

Originally Posted by Thorham

My viewer only uses too much chipmem, because I haven't written a fully functional screen open routine yet. It only handles full screen at the moment. It just hasn't been a priority for me yet.

But other programs eat a lot. Say, things like MUI ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Ah, yes, I will certainly do that. How's Delitracker's wav playback?

Probably not poorer than Hippo :-)

But it is unequaled when playing, say, 30-voc XM.

Originally Posted by Thorham

The reason I use MCP now, is that it does what I needed from MCX and more, like making the gui look better and taking care of all the assigns. Very handy. And about mui, yes it's bloated, but it works well enough for me, even though I don't like it that much.

For making the gui look better, maybe but I don't need it. I like my ugly WB
For the assigns, I just refuse to do that. My system isn't overloaded with all those per-application assigns ; for (the stupid) apps that need some, I just add an assign script or rely on the AssignWedge patch, so those asns are
temporary.

I don't like MUI because it uses lots of memory and I suspect it of crashing sometimes.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's what I what I thought. Those silly customors are demanding too much for too little They don't realize that it takes time to create something that is of a good quality level. But what can you do when you're running a business? Tell the customer that they're wrong

You're speaking about quality and it means all. We live in a world today that's based on quantity, not quality.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No one is going to do that.

I did a few times, and was told by managers to talk otherwise

Originally Posted by Thorham

Anyway, I do like to know what it is you dislike about oop so much that you don't want to use it.

It isn't that I refuse to use it, but for some people oo just seems to be mandatory and everything else sucks. Now that is what I really dislike.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Me neither For some of them it's probably just a challenge anyway. People can do these things for the fun of it and not just for the money.

Maybe this challenge is less amusing now... They promised 20 ghz for 2005 and what do we have ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's fur sure. Remember flying cars? Except for photographs of prototypes, I've never seen one

No, I don't remember

Originally Posted by Thorham

And quantum computers might not be that far away, then again, who knows indeed

Oh, they're certainly very close. But they can only handle 7 bits (well, qbits, ok) and perform one single computation before dying.

Nowadays, already, there are some memory chips which may unexpectedly lose bits because of solar rays / ambient radioactivity / whatever. So, sorry, but that mere concept of quantum computers just makes me laugh.
Of course I can change my mind if I actually see one running, but I don't fear for that.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, man, this is Life. But without any living entity, there is nothing and there cannot be anything.

You got that right!

Originally Posted by meynaf

I had two 1083S and they didn't exactly sound the same, so I can't tell.

I've only used those monitors internal sound when I didn't have an amp with speakers, so I have little experience with them.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Money again, yeah. Decadent capitalism

Yup, I've got a low paid job. I've got little money for extras. It's simple outside work, which is completely stress-less and the hours are good, so I guess the disadvantage actually has an advantage!

Originally Posted by meynaf

I don't think things under 50 hz are even hearable at all, but if they are, are they anything but parasites ?
Maybe we just need to go back to vinyl ;-)

Frequencys below 50 hertz can be heard properly. The human hearing reange is 20 to 20000 hertz As humans get older, their upper frequency bound reduces. Mine at age 32 is 16000 hertz. The lower bound doesn't seem to change.

As for vinyl, this has other problems. With digital storage media, one can simply increase the sample rate and the number of stored bits. With dvds this means a significant increase in audio quality.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Are they apps that need a lot of cpu power ?

Sometimes. But I've noticed that the whole system becomes stuttery when the cpu is hogged by an application. That's why I'm sticking to wav.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Good thing. Now perhaps that mpega library needs to be worked on again...

That might not be a bad idea. 70ns really sucks

Originally Posted by meynaf

Of course they sound good, but you have nothing else to compare (apart memory, ok ).

Yes, I do. 16Bit 44khz music on the peecee

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes. Maybe this deserves a punishment, but I won't. (you're too far away )

Oh, come on, the Netherlands are practically around the corner

Originally Posted by meynaf

And now ? How does it sound, what does it say when playing ?

14bit and 14bit calibrated sound the same. At verbosity level 1 it says:

Filetype is RIFF-WAVE.

Number of tracks	:2
Bits per sample	:16
Compression		:none
Total playback time	:77:48
Recording frequnecy	:24000

Half playback rate	:off
Playback device	:Amiga

This output is the same for both paula14 and paula14c options.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Certainly. That whole lot of jpegs was the main reason I needed to write my picture viewer !

I can understand why! What kind of pictures are they, by the way?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Not all the backups if your hd is full enough ! Of my 20 gigs, perhaps 3 are still free...
However, on a floppy you can write things. On a CD everything's fixed.

Wow, what do you have on your hd that only three gigs are still free?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Are you sure it's really beer ? Maybe you need to stop with those nice smelling herbs too

Yes, I am. I used to drink a whole case a day regularly years ago. This is sure to have caused some damage

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, good game graphics aren't required to just start a project, readable graphics are enough (that is, perhaps not cute, but understandable ; you can't admire but you clearly see what it is).

That's true. No need for fancy graphics without any code to make'm do anything.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I like Ultima-style, not Ultima itself but games with a similar system and a dungeon view, such as Ambermoon (I'm currently playing Dragonflight).

So do I. The graphics from the Fire Emblem series are similar, but much better than the old Ultimas. Great game, too, Fire Emblem.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I dream of making one huge game, with many locations, many dungeons, many monsters, many objects, many characters... <sigh>

So do I I want an rpg world that's the size of a whole planet!

Originally Posted by meynaf

Swap a cute girl with a man ? No way !

I meant to swap Torham out, and your favorite character in! Requires some hacking, but should be possible.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If you got fed up with some, then perhaps they're not that good :-)

I get fed up with the best games when I play them too long, and have to leave them alone for a while. This is one of the reasons I haven't been playing Dungeon Master recently. It's one of my favorite games, though!

Originally Posted by meynaf

May be it could have saved me some time and effort, but the delay just seemed too long.

The png decoding was actually done quite fast, but you didn't ask. Oh noes! It's 'only' the inflate part that has been delayed!

Originally Posted by meynaf

It's not as simple as it ought to, especially when that progressive stuff comes into play (yeah I support it).

I actually thought the decoding parts weren't too hard to do.

Originally Posted by meynaf

What's needed now is testing, with all possible formats. Do you have various PNGs for that ?

I've tried using IrfanView to convert to various different settings, but it can't seem to output progressive pngs or uncompressed pngs. Alpha channel shouldn't be a problem, and there should be some programs for the peecee that can output all relevant formats. I'll see if I can find some.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I can't say everything sucked, but nothing was at level with the miggy.

Hehe, 68k really does spoil the programmer, doesn't it

Originally Posted by meynaf

But perhaps some programs will need to be run separately from AsmOne one day...

My simple viewer already does. I just haven't needed output messages yet. I know I will though, and it's easy to implement.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You can understand math notation without understanding too much of what it means... Anyway there aren't many notations in the spec. It just speaks about things such as hybrid filter without explaining what they are.

Yuk

Originally Posted by meynaf

If you want to try that, be warned : bits that follow a symbol depend on that symbol (can be a size, a distance, another symbol or just be meaningless because it was the last symbol).

Yes, and it means the table has to have multiple entries that have the same output, so that incomplete codes are ignored.

Originally Posted by meynaf

"Portable" is meaningless nowadays. It just means something can work on PC, PC and PC.

That's not completely true. If you write a high level program in c on the peecee, and compile it on the Amiga, then it simply works if only standard libs are used. I've already tried it with a c based system frame for memory and file handling. Same goes for the programs I've written to convert different Japanese dictionaries to a format usable by my Japanes Dictionary program in VisualBasic Express. All this stuff is 100% portable (between peecee and Amiga).

Originally Posted by meynaf

Moreover, operating systems aren't portable by essence. If you want to make a portable os, you'll be limited to what's common between architectures.

The low level parts aren't. An os still contains quite a few high level parts, and I suspect many to be reusable.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But other programs eat a lot. Say, things like MUI ?

I must admit that I don't use a lot of mui software. A few prefs programs. That's it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Probably not poorer than Hippo :-)

Hippo actually plays back fine. Because I don't have many exotic formats, I think I'll stick with Hippo for a little while longer. I only really play wavs, mods and sids.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But it is unequaled when playing, say, 30-voc XM.

Right! But I don't have any

Originally Posted by meynaf

For making the gui look better, maybe but I don't need it. I like my ugly WB .
For the assigns, I just refuse to do that. My system isn't overloaded with all those per-application assigns ; for (the stupid) apps that need some, I just add an assign script or rely on the AssignWedge patch, so those asns are
temporary.

My system isn't either. I always make scripts for app assigns. Only permanent assigns, such as the system assigns and mui are hndled by mcp.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I don't like MUI because it uses lots of memory and I suspect it of crashing sometimes.

I've never seen it crash. Then again I don't have a lot of mui apps.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You're speaking about quality and it means all. We live in a world today that's based on quantity, not quality.

That really sucks At least we can always write our own software

Originally Posted by meynaf

I did a few times, and was told by managers to talk otherwise.

Those fools, d'oh

Originally Posted by meynaf

It isn't that I refuse to use it, but for some people oo just seems to be mandatory and everything else sucks. Now that is what I really dislike.

Same here. I love oop, but it's not needed all the time. To much oop is poo

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe this challenge is less amusing now... They promised 20 ghz for 2005 and what do we have ?

It may just take longer than expected.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Oh, they're certainly very close. But they can only handle 7 bits (well, qbits, ok) and perform one single computation before dying.

It's going to take a while. As long as the principle is sound.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Nowadays, already, there are some memory chips which may unexpectedly lose bits because of solar rays / ambient radioactivity / whatever.

Hasn't this always been a possible problem?

By the way, what do you think of this 2x2 down scale idea?

	move.l	#%00000000111111001111110011111100,d7
.loop
	move.l	(a0),d2
	addq.l	#3,a0
	and.l	d7,d2

	move.l	(a0),d3
	addq.l	#3,a0
	and.l	d7,d3
	add.l	d3,d2
	
	move.l	(a1),d3
	addq.l	#3,a1
	and.l	d7,d3
	add.l	d3,d2
	
	move.l	(a1),d3
	addq.l	#3,a1
	and.l	d7,d3
	add.l	d3,d2
	
	lsl.l	#6,d2
	move.l	d2,(a2)
	addq.l	#3,a2
	
	dbra	d6,.loop

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've only used those monitors internal sound when I didn't have an amp with speakers, so I have little experience with them.

I regret my old 1083S anyway. Best monitor I've ever had.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yup, I've got a low paid job. I've got little money for extras. It's simple outside work, which is completely stress-less and the hours are good, so I guess the disadvantage actually has an advantage!

If work becomes enjoyable then it no longer is work. If so, yes, you're right in keeping that one.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Frequencys below 50 hertz can be heard properly. The human hearing reange is 20 to 20000 hertz As humans get older, their upper frequency bound reduces. Mine at age 32 is 16000 hertz. The lower bound doesn't seem to change.

As for vinyl, this has other problems. With digital storage media, one can simply increase the sample rate and the number of stored bits. With dvds this means a significant increase in audio quality.

The main advantage of digital storage isn't quality (a vinyl is still better than a CD - the first time you play it), but the fact it can be duplicated without any loss.

But do 20 to 50 hz buzz have their place in music ? I dunno.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sometimes. But I've noticed that the whole system becomes stuttery when the cpu is hogged by an application. That's why I'm sticking to wav.

If an app is eating lots of cpu power, you can just lower its priority.
I've seen my system at 100% cpu usage with its reactivity unaffected.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That might not be a bad idea. 70ns really sucks

So... Hippo can play mpeg audio but isn't good. You can use DT2's Mpegaplayer and tell me which settings you are able to use.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I do. 16Bit 44khz music on the peecee

But this isn't tracker music. Peecees never have really played tracker musics correctly anyway, even DP2 on PC has a bad rendering.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oh, come on, the Netherlands are practically around the corner

You want it, eh ? But you won't have it. This time it is because I'm too lazy

Originally Posted by Thorham

14bit and 14bit calibrated sound the same. At verbosity level 1 it says:
(...)
This output is the same for both paula14 and paula14c options.

You're not playing with calibrated output. There should have been an additionnal line telling this.

You may have a look with Snoopdos. Perhaps your calibration file ended up at the wrong place.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I can understand why! What kind of pictures are they, by the way?

Errrh... Ahem... Heheh... Can't you guess ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Wow, what do you have on your hd that only three gigs are still free?

Apart the jpegs, I have loads of mp3 (perhaps 5 gigs or more), thousands of mods (several Aminet CDs), some waves/flacs, lots of games (including some pc games waiting for an hypothetical port), lots of programs (sometimes with huge sources), some demos...

It really needs a whole lot of clean-up

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I am. I used to drink a whole case a day regularly years ago. This is sure to have caused some damage

A whole case a day

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's true. No need for fancy graphics without any code to make'm do anything.

So, are you able to do some "place holder" graphics for a game ?

Apart from games, I also need some gfx for a GUI (for my audio player project).
Some icons are easy to do (play, stop...) but others are not.

Originally Posted by Thorham

So do I. The graphics from the Fire Emblem series are similar, but much better than the old Ultimas. Great game, too, Fire Emblem.

I don't know Fire Emblem... Probably another pc game.

Originally Posted by Thorham

So do I I want an rpg world that's the size of a whole planet!

The best I've found for that is Ambermoon.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I meant to swap Torham out, and your favorite character in! Requires some hacking, but should be possible.

This would need some hacks in the dungeon file, to put Torham back to sleep (there IS a place for that !). Now the game wouldn't even need a character to start, as like old DM it can start with none (it just takes whoever is at 0,0
of the starting level, could be no-one).

However, this cutie gives all her power when protected behind strong warriors...

Originally Posted by Thorham

I get fed up with the best games when I play them too long, and have to leave them alone for a while. This is one of the reasons I haven't been playing Dungeon Master recently. It's one of my favorite games, though!

Ok then. About Dm : I don't believe that. You're just afraid to get into that custom dungeon and get your ass kicked again

Originally Posted by Thorham

The png decoding was actually done quite fast, but you didn't ask. Oh noes! It's 'only' the inflate part that has been delayed!

But you can't test if you haven't any real case, and this requires doing everything. Sorry again, but the delay was just too large.

Anyway you can still give me what you already have, even though I doubt one can make a paeth routine faster than mine

Originally Posted by Thorham

I actually thought the decoding parts weren't too hard to do.

Yes. Apart that progressive stuff, which needed to rewrite the whole main loop.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've tried using IrfanView to convert to various different settings, but it can't seem to output progressive pngs or uncompressed pngs. Alpha channel shouldn't be a problem, and there should be some programs for the peecee that can output all relevant formats. I'll see if I can find some.

Yes, I'd be happy if you could find/encode some.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hehe, 68k really does spoil the programmer, doesn't it

68k was made by programmers, and they knew what they needed. It has some flaws, but nothing better exists. It's just too bad it got abandoned !

Originally Posted by Thorham

My simple viewer already does. I just haven't needed output messages yet. I know I will though, and it's easy to implement.

Easy to implement, maybe. But what if they need to be translated ?
I'm still looking for a locale.library-like solution.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yuk

Yes, yuk. I agree.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, and it means the table has to have multiple entries that have the same output, so that incomplete codes are ignored.

My table gives actual value to be output, and the number of bits to be returned to the bit reader. I can't see how it could have given two values at once.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's not completely true. If you write a high level program in c on the peecee, and compile it on the Amiga, then it simply works if only standard libs are used. I've already tried it with a c based system frame for memory and file handling. Same goes for the programs I've written to convert different Japanese dictionaries to a format usable by my Japanes Dictionary program in VisualBasic Express. All this stuff is 100% portable (between peecee and Amiga).

If only standard libs are used. That means : no graphics, no sound, just plain console and file i/o. You can't get far with that !

Originally Posted by Thorham

The low level parts aren't. An os still contains quite a few high level parts, and I suspect many to be reusable.

But the low level parts can change drastically to be correctly adapted to an architecture, which, in turn, affects what's on top of them.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I must admit that I don't use a lot of mui software. A few prefs programs. That's it.

I use more. Nearly all Internet-related stuff (MiamiDx, IBrowse, Yam...) use it.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hippo actually plays back fine. Because I don't have many exotic formats, I think I'll stick with Hippo for a little while longer. I only really play wavs, mods and sids.

But Hippo's just ugly ;-)
And some mods aren't played correctly.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Right! But I don't have any

See Aminet/mods.

Originally Posted by Thorham

My system isn't either. I always make scripts for app assigns. Only permanent assigns, such as the system assigns and mui are hndled by mcp.

So you don't really need a particular program for your assigns. The os in itself doesn't require many of them.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've never seen it crash. Then again I don't have a lot of mui apps.

When put in my hands, LOTS of apps crash

Originally Posted by Thorham

That really sucks At least we can always write our own software

Yes, but software probably isn't enough. If we really wanted quality, IMO we'd have to redesign the whole machine !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Those fools, d'oh

Originally Posted by Thorham

Same here. I love oop, but it's not needed all the time. To much oop is poo

It may be true that too much oop kills oop.
Also I do not like mixing code with data and oop is just that.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It may just take longer than expected.

Isn't it already starting to be a little bit too long ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's going to take a while. As long as the principle is sound.

But I continue to say that this principle can't work.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hasn't this always been a possible problem?

Maybe, but the more data you fit in, the more likely the problems will come !

Originally Posted by Thorham

By the way, what do you think of this 2x2 down scale idea?

Looks good, even though it might have looked better with a few comments saying what things are ;-)
Now you just have to do that for 8 bpp and less, and you'll have everything you need.

[Thorham]

I've asked the post size to be increased, and RCK has increased it to 20000 chars

Originally Posted by meynaf

I regret my old 1083S anyway. Best monitor I've ever had.

Same here... for Amiga There are most certainly better monitors available today.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If work becomes enjoyable then it no longer is work. If so, yes, you're right in keeping that one.

Originally Posted by meynaf

The main advantage of digital storage isn't quality (a vinyl is still better than a CD - the first time you play it), but the fact it can be duplicated without any loss.

I must admit that I do want to hear that for my self

Originally Posted by meynaf

But do 20 to 50 hz buzz have their place in music ? I dunno.

In very heavy bass sounds, such as in some house music, which I like, by the way.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If an app is eating lots of cpu power, you can just lower its priority.
I've seen my system at 100% cpu usage with its reactivity unaffected.

Yeah, Dopus doesn't always give accurate readings. Still, wav is so low on the cpu that I prefer it. I don't like my system to start behaving choppy or having to reduce the amount of cpu time an app gets.

Originally Posted by meynaf

So... Hippo can play mpeg audio but isn't good. You can use DT2's Mpegaplayer and tell me which settings you are able to use.

I'll have it tested by Friday.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But this isn't tracker music. Peecees never have really played tracker musics correctly anyway, even DP2 on PC has a bad rendering.

Except for their own formats, like xm and s3m. But who needs a peecee for mod and sid anyway

Originally Posted by meynaf

You want it, eh ? But you won't have it. This time it is because I'm too lazy.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You're not playing with calibrated output. There should have been an additionnal line telling this.

Odd, I'm sure I've done everything properly. I'll try again and post the findings on Friday.

Originally Posted by meynaf

You may have a look with Snoopdos. Perhaps your calibration file ended up at the wrong place.

Oh gee, I keep forgetting that program. Installing it this week.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Errrh... Ahem... Heheh... Can't you guess ?

No, I can't. Enlighten please

Originally Posted by meynaf

Apart the jpegs, I have loads of mp3 (perhaps 5 gigs or more), thousands of mods (several Aminet CDs), some waves/flacs, lots of games (including some pc games waiting for an hypothetical port), lots of programs (sometimes with huge sources), some demos...

Now it makes sense. That's a lot of data you have there!

Originally Posted by meynaf

It really needs a whole lot of clean-up.

I just cleaned up mine, and I really just tend to dump stuff in a dump partition, so the other partitions stay quite clean.

Originally Posted by meynaf

A whole case a day.

Yeah, thats 7.2 litres in 12 hours

Originally Posted by meynaf

So, are you able to do some "place holder" graphics for a game ?

I'm not even going to try. However, I've had a look on the net, and I've found plenty of tilesets and sprite sheets. Get them here: TileSet.zip This include two character classes. I have over 60.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Apart from games, I also need some gfx for a GUI (for my audio player project).

Maybe WinAmp 5's modern skin could do. If you have a nice image of a stereo system, you might use that, and you can make all the knobs work.What do you have in mind for this?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Some icons are easy to do (play, stop...) but others are not.

True. There's probably plenty of decent stuff available on-line.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I don't know Fire Emblem... Probably another pc game.

Nope. It's a strategic rpg series which I think started on snes and got continued on the gameboy advance, Get some screen shots here: FireEmblemScreens.zip

Originally Posted by meynaf

The best I've found for that is Ambermoon.

Sounds good!

Originally Posted by meynaf

This would need some hacks in the dungeon file, to put Torham back to sleep (there IS a place for that !). Now the game wouldn't even need a character to start, as like old DM it can start with none (it just takes whoever is at 0,0
of the starting level, could be no-one).

Sounds simple enough.

Originally Posted by meynaf

However, this cutie gives all her power when protected behind strong warriors...

In my challenge, Torham wouldn't be very strong at all, either, and when you simply try playing as normal, but just with one character, that charcter will become very strong at all classes except Ninja. Try it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Ok then. About Dm : I don't believe that. You're just afraid to get into that custom dungeon and get your ass kicked again.

No, trust me, when I play any game I really like for too long, I have to put it down for a few months.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But you can't test if you haven't any real case, and this requires doing everything. Sorry again, but the delay was just too large.

I understand. I'm sorry for taking too long

Originally Posted by meynaf

Anyway you can still give me what you already have, even though I doubt one can make a paeth routine faster than mine

You got it. I'll post them Friday. My cd rewriter is currently in my peecee, and until I'm done using it, it's not coming out. I hate opening that thing.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes. Apart that progressive stuff, which needed to rewrite the whole main loop.

Hmm, I didn't think it was too difficult. Then again, my code might just be faulty. I'll have to try and see.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, I'd be happy if you could find/encode some.

I've got something better. It's called Png Suite and it has 157 differently encoded png images and comes with a doc file as well. Most of the images are also small, just 32x32 pixels.Get them here: PngSuite.zip

Originally Posted by meynaf

68k was made by programmers, and they knew what they needed. It has some flaws, but nothing better exists. It's just too bad it got abandoned !

No wonder it's so damned good. And you're right, it's a shame

Originally Posted by meynaf

Easy to implement, maybe. But what if they need to be translated ?
I'm still looking for a locale.library-like solution.

Locale is a standard Workbench feature. Why not use it?

Originally Posted by meynaf

My table gives actual value to be output, and the number of bits to be returned to the bit reader. I can't see how it could have given two values at once.

It can if there is more then one complete code in a read word. The table has to be set up to ignore extra bits at the end. It's all just theory, however.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If only standard libs are used. That means : no graphics, no sound, just plain console and file i/o. You can't get far with that !

Depends on what you want to make. It's great for command line utilities that you may want to use on multiple systems.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But the low level parts can change drastically to be correctly adapted to an architecture, which, in turn, affects what's on top of them.

Still, there's probably quite a lot of code that's still portable. Correct me if I'm wrong

Originally Posted by meynaf

I use more. Nearly all Internet-related stuff (MiamiDx, IBrowse, Yam...) use it.

Right. Because I use my peecee for internet, I don't need these.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But Hippo's just ugly ;-)
And some mods aren't played correctly.

Yeah, it is ugly, isn't it? Which format are those mods in?

Originally Posted by meynaf

See Aminet/mods.

Yeah, I remember them having a nice selection. Any change of playing Digibooster mods properly?

Originally Posted by meynaf

So you don't really need a particular program for your assigns. The os in itself doesn't require many of them.

Yes, I know, but if a patch like mcp or mcx is loaded anyway, then why not have mcp handle them. Here's my startup-sequence:

C:IDEfix start quiet
C:SetPatch QUIET

copy >nil: sys:prefs/ramdisk/ ram: all

c:patchcontrol
c:mcp

c:fblit >nil:
c:ftext >nil:

c:mountenv >nil:
sys:devs/monitors/pal >nil:

C:IPrefs
C:ConClip

Path >NIL: RAM: C: SYS:Utilities SYS:Rexxc SYS:System S: SYS:Tools
Run <NIL: >NIL: c:NewIcons

assign CON: dismount >nil:
mount CON:

Execute S:User-Startup

C:LoadWB
EndCLI >NIL:

Nice and clean, isn't it?

Originally Posted by meynaf

When put in my hands, LOTS of apps crash.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yes, but software probably isn't enough. If we really wanted quality, IMO we'd have to redesign the whole machine !

Maybe, but well written code is well written code, regardless of which machine it's written for.

Originally Posted by meynaf

It may be true that too much oop kills oop.
Also I do not like mixing code with data and oop is just that.

It only looks like that in the source code. What's the real difference with making a structure in assembler and then accessing it with a bunch of routines which are specifically written to use that structure? Happens all the time in assembler.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Isn't it already starting to be a little bit too long ?

Some times progress happens quickly, and some times it doesn't. Fact of life.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But I continue to say that this principle can't work.

I don't even really know how it works, so I can't really offer any input

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe, but the more data you fit in, the more likely the problems will come !

That's true. Time to shield those computers from radiation!

Originally Posted by meynaf

Looks good, even though it might have looked better with a few comments saying what things are ;-)
Now you just have to do that for 8 bpp and less, and you'll have everything you need.

Basically it simply reads longwords in one go, three byte aligned, and removes the extra gun color, and makes space in the remaining gun colors so they can be added up three at a time. Saves a lot of cycles. As for indexed scaling, here's indexed to 24 bit downscaling:

;
; 8 bits per pixel indexed color to 24 bit color 2x2 down sampling.
;
; a0=even scan lines of 8bpp bmp file.
; a1=odd scan lines of 8bpp bmp file.
; a2=24 bpp output buffer for c2p.
; a3=color table in 00rrrrrr00gggggg00bbbbbb00000000 format.
; d0=scan line length in pixels.

	moveq	#0,d3
.loop
	move.b	(a0)+,d3
	move.l	(a3,d3.w*4),d2

	move.b	(a0)+,d3
	add.l	(a3,d3.w*4),d2

	move.b	(a1)+,d3
	add.l	(a3,d3.w*4),d2

	move.b	(a1)+,d3
	add.l	(a3,d3.w*4),d2

	move.l	d2,(a2)
	addq.l	#3,a2

	dbra	d0,.loop

Very simple to do, as you can see

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've asked the post size to be increased, and RCK has increased it to 20000 chars

Wow. Now we just need the number of images to be increased too...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Same here... for Amiga There are most certainly better monitors available today.

If there are, then I've never seen one. Peecee monitors just give a somewhat colorless image, and don't tell me about those flat screens. Yukk !

I remember that 17 inch monitor I once had at work. Every time it switched resolution it made such a noise that it gave the impression to be imploding. Not to mention the several-seconds black out.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I must admit that I do want to hear that for my self

You can't. Vinyls are no longer sold, and existing ones are old (quality is only better the very first time you play it).

Originally Posted by Thorham

In very heavy bass sounds, such as in some house music, which I like, by the way.

Must be very heavy then. Don't get in trouble with your neighbors :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, Dopus doesn't always give accurate readings. Still, wav is so low on the cpu that I prefer it. I don't like my system to start behaving choppy or having to reduce the amount of cpu time an app gets.

But wav isn't that low because of lots of disk accesses, and those can make the machine very choppy. Not to mention Dopus probably eats some cycles too.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'll have it tested by Friday.

I assume you'll have done it when reading this. So now ?

Originally Posted by Thorham

Except for their own formats, like xm and s3m. But who needs a peecee for mod and sid anyway

Who needs ? This whole lot of people who don't have anything but a peecee (the poor mites).
And the other poor mites who used to have a miggy but no longer have.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Odd, I'm sure I've done everything properly. I'll try again and post the findings on Friday.

Dunno what you've found now, but if needed then maybe I can give you a small proggy that will just refuse to work if not calibrated and tell you what's missing.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oh gee, I keep forgetting that program. Installing it this week.

Take care about last versions. For me they're just crap. Snoopdos 1.7 is better.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, I can't. Enlighten please

Partition is called "xxx:". Now try to guess again

Originally Posted by Thorham

Now it makes sense. That's a lot of data you have there!

Oh, yeah ! And most of it is just unsorted and probably a big part should end up deleted. Easy for images/audio (when I'm not just too lazy) but for games it's much harder.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I just cleaned up mine, and I really just tend to dump stuff in a dump partition, so the other partitions stay quite clean.

That's what I do... until I'm out of disk space.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, thats 7.2 litres in 12 hours

Holy shit
I'm glad you stopped that now.

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm not even going to try. However, I've had a look on the net, and I've found plenty of tilesets and sprite sheets. Get them here: Attachment 19289 This include two character classes. I have over 60.

Not exactly what I need...

Originally Posted by Thorham

Maybe WinAmp 5's modern skin could do. If you have a nice image of a stereo system, you might use that, and you can make all the knobs work.

Winamp skins are made for winamp and nothing else. They don't provide all the stuff I need. Do winamp support subsongs, prev/next patt, play speed ? I doubt. Moreover, it's too colorful (and probably too big) for WB interface.

Originally Posted by Thorham

What do you have in mind for this?

In fact I'm just looking for 6 different icons (all the rest - knobs and tapedeck - is done) :
1. show players (say, data types, or codecs) window
2. show genies/engines/whatever other type of plugin window
3. show config window
4. show play list window
5. show module information window
6. show scopes window
(all of them in standard wb colors, of course)

Originally Posted by Thorham

True. There's probably plenty of decent stuff available on-line.

On-line stuff is useless for me. It's not for WB but for peecees. Too big, too many colors.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Nope. It's a strategic rpg series which I think started on snes and got continued on the gameboy advance, Get some screen shots here: Attachment 19287

Rpg on consoles ? Doh ! I can't imagine playing an rpg without a mouse.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sounds good!

Main world is 800x800 tiles (as far as I remember), not counting the dungeons and cities, so that's something to explore. My fave RPG btw.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Sounds simple enough.

Maybe this has already been made by others, but it doesn't really interest me.

Originally Posted by Thorham

In my challenge, Torham wouldn't be very strong at all, either, and when you simply try playing as normal, but just with one character, that charcter will become very strong at all classes except Ninja. Try it.

Thanks but no thanks. I don't like this type of challenge. This just turns the rpg into an arcade game.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No, trust me, when I play any game I really like for too long, I have to put it down for a few months.

Then the few months are over, eh ? You'll have to find something else

Originally Posted by Thorham

You got it. I'll post them Friday. My cd rewriter is currently in my peecee, and until I'm done using it, it's not coming out. I hate opening that thing.

I don't see the link with the cd writer, but I'm waiting.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Hmm, I didn't think it was too difficult. Then again, my code might just be faulty. I'll have to try and see.

Because you did it ???

Originally Posted by Thorham

I've got something better. It's called Png Suite and it has 157 differently encoded png images and comes with a doc file as well. Most of the images are also small, just 32x32 pixels.Get them here: Attachment 19288

May well be exactly what I need... or not. I'll see.

Originally Posted by Thorham

No wonder it's so damned good. And you're right, it's a shame

Could have been better though. If I were able to change things, I'd have some ideas !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Locale is a standard Workbench feature. Why not use it?

Because my program shouldn't even know about Workbench !
(btw it's not WB in itself but locale.library)
My lib is designed to be all the program needs, so I need some neat API for that.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It can if there is more then one complete code in a read word. The table has to be set up to ignore extra bits at the end. It's all just theory, however.

Then it's very theoretical, because :
1. a read word is a byte and due to the file format it cannot be anything else, which severely limits the amount of data you can pre-read (thus the time gain may be null)
2. bits change signification depending of the meaning of the previous code (may be a completely different huff table, or even direct bits to be read), so there'll be lots of particular cases to slow you down

Originally Posted by Thorham

Depends on what you want to make. It's great for command line utilities that you may want to use on multiple systems.

But we were talking about OSes, not command-line utils.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Still, there's probably quite a lot of code that's still portable. Correct me if I'm wrong

I probably won't correct you
But you might have to give me some examples !

Originally Posted by Thorham

Right. Because I use my peecee for internet, I don't need these.

So you can run all those nice viruses that lie out there. Doh, I can't

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, it is ugly, isn't it? Which format are those mods in?

Some ProTracker aren't played correctly (yeah). And I wouldn't even bother trying a MED or a TFMX.

Now if you want a nice player, then grab EaglePlayer 2.x from Aminet, and activate the Empy Gui. This had me totally stumped.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, I remember them having a nice selection. Any change of playing Digibooster mods properly?

Are you talking about Digibooster or Digibooster Pro ?
Anyway I had no trouble with DT2.34 (apart that damn DBpro still uses that damn AHI).

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I know, but if a patch like mcp or mcx is loaded anyway, then why not have mcp handle them. Here's my startup-sequence:
(...)
Nice and clean, isn't it?

Maybe. Then again, maybe not

A few remarks :
. who knows what horror lurks in s:user-startup (not me, I have none)
. aren't fblit/ftext already handled by mcp ?
. what is "mountenv" ? your env assigns don't seem standard, may be the cause of 14bit file not found
. running PAL monitor isn't needed (if you don't have any other monitor)
. "Run <NIL: >NIL: c:NewIcons" could have been "Run <>NIL: c:NewIcons" (but that's just to be shorter )

Originally Posted by Thorham

Maybe, but well written code is well written code, regardless of which machine it's written for.

That's what YOU think.

Originally Posted by Thorham

It only looks like that in the source code. What's the real difference with making a structure in assembler and then accessing it with a bunch of routines which are specifically written to use that structure? Happens all the time in assembler.

The source code is what you read, so that's important anyway.

In asm, you hardly have to write a routine just to access a structure. Read or write its fields, and that's all. And remember to use the RS directive :-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

Some times progress happens quickly, and some times it doesn't. Fact of life.

Seems to be on the slower side this time...

Originally Posted by Thorham

I don't even really know how it works, so I can't really offer any input

A lot about it can probably be read on the net, but maybe this won't interest you.

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's true. Time to shield those computers from radiation!

And how will you shield something against radiations that can potentially traverse the whole Earth ?
How can you protect yourself against radiations that come from the shield itself (such as ambiant radioactivity) ?

Remember : a SINGLE particle disintegration will be enough to change the status of one bit, hence some random data losses, so you need more than a shield.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Basically it simply reads longwords in one go, three byte aligned, and removes the extra gun color, and makes space in the remaining gun colors so they can be added up three at a time. Saves a lot of cycles.

I've guessed that. But perhaps comments would have been good anyway ;-)

Originally Posted by Thorham

As for indexed scaling, here's indexed to 24 bit downscaling:
(...)
Very simple to do, as you can see

And only works in ONE case : chunky 8-bit. No good for IFFs, that is. Of couse we could apply a p2c before, but low-bpp images will simply look ugly when rendered in ham.

Perhaps you can try this in your bmp viewer and see what it gives for 16-color images.