EHB problems

Galahad/FLT · 23 April 2014, 01:44

Where time stood still is nearly finished, and I want to include a 64 EHB picture that Greyfox did, but i'm having problems with it.

On AGA in Winuae, I can get it to display properly when run from assembly in Devpac, but external running of it, and the colours are completely fucked.

So I thought maybe my settings for EHB were wrong, but either EHB is very fussy or theres something fundamentally wrong with the iff file.

Now I can get it to display properly in my code, but external its buggered.
If I try to display the IFF in Iffmaster, the colours are wrong.
If I load it into PPaint, its correct.

If I try and load using Viewtek as IFF, its wrong.

If I try my code on A500 ECS WinUAE, the colours are wrong.

So I thought, ok, so obviously i'm doing something wrong, so I sought out a EHB game, and Rolling Ronny has a EHB title screen, so I ripped that and it displays perfectly in every piece of software i've tried it in, so clearly theres something fundamentally wrong with the image Greyfox has provided.

Is there a piece of software on the Amiga that perfectly displays all the contents of the IFF file so I can try and figure out what the hell the problem is, because its just silly bullshit like this which is stopping it being released!

dlfrsilver · 23 April 2014, 03:53

Yes : deluxe paint V. I used it on Lionheart original graphics files to help DJ Thunder when he was remaking Lionheart on PC from the amiga source files. the caves graphics are IFF 64 colors, and those were not displaying external properly.

NovaCoder · 23 April 2014, 06:25

Hiya,

This might be a really stupid suggestion, but couldn't just load up the IFF in PPaint and then save it as a new file. Wouldn't that fix it up the colour formats?

Coagulus · 23 April 2014, 08:30

I had problems in my game where some graphics saved in PPaint weren't loading in Blitz, I loaded them into DPaint and saved them out again and all was fine then.

Leffmann · 23 April 2014, 12:01

You're either trying to display a 64 color image as EHB, or you (or the Copper program output from IFF-Master) are trying to set a 24-bit RGB palette, which will result in messed up colors on ECS and OCS which only have 12-bit RGB.

Steve · 23 April 2014, 14:51

Can you upload the iff file to the zone. I'll take a quick look to see if I can figure out what is wrong with it. There could be a mask interleaved in the image which isn't being correctly removed in the reader.

StingRay · 23 April 2014, 15:46

If PPaint can load the picture correctly just save it using PPaint and convert it again.

Galahad/FLT · 23 April 2014, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

If PPaint can load the picture correctly just save it using PPaint and convert it again.

I tried that, and it just won't work properly, its proper doing my head in.

PPaint displays it perfectly.

Viewtek won't
Filemaster won't
Iffmaster won't

But if I take the EHB Rolling Ronny Picture, EVERYTHING displays it properly.

The picture displays properly when used in Devpac and assembled in AGA environment, but outside of Devpac (i.e. running the .exe file) it won't, and it definately won't on OCS.

Are there two variants of EHB mode? One for ECS and one thats actually not EHB but a standard 64 colour format for AGA?

I'll dig out the IFF and stick it in the zone so people can have a look.

Image in the zone now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Hiya,

This might be a really stupid suggestion, but couldn't just load up the IFF in PPaint and then save it as a new file. Wouldn't that fix it up the colour formats?

Already tried that, and still no joy.

Just tried it again just to be sure I wasn't going mental, and again, only PPaint displays it natively properly, everything else has a massive issue with it.

Occasionally the pallete even fucks up in my code as well, so obviously I can't release until this bug or problem is tracked down.

Leffmann · 23 April 2014, 18:42

It's just like I suspected: a 64 color image using 24-bit RGB. You can actually see this immediately by opening the picture in DPaint or PPaint and looking at the palette.

Retroplay · 23 April 2014, 18:42

Does the image I zoned work ?

Thorham · 23 April 2014, 18:44

The problem is that the image is a plain 64 color image and not EHB. It's also not possible to convert the image to EHB without color loss (tried it with Adpro 2.5.1).

StingRay · 23 April 2014, 18:46

Leffmann and Thorham are right, this is not a valid EHB picture.

Galahad/FLT · 23 April 2014, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

Leffmann and Thorham are right, this is not a valid EHB picture.

Fantastic.... actually not, but at least it solves my mystery of why it wouldn't work on OCS because obviously its not true EHB therefore it won't display.

Thanks chaps, looks like its back to the drawing board for this one, as Thorham said, it looks crap converted down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

Does the image I zoned work ?

Yes mate, it works perfectly.

What did you do to it?

Retroplay · 23 April 2014, 18:56

Hehe, I did a little cheating to be honest.

I loaded the .iff in Photoshop and saved it as a .bmp, then loaded the .bmp in PPaint and saved it as .iff

But as Sting and Thorham said, isn't it just a plain 64 colour picture ?

Galahad/FLT · 23 April 2014, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

Hehe, I did a little cheating to be honest.

I loaded the .iff in Photoshop and saved it as a .bmp, then loaded the .bmp in PPaint and saved it as .iff

But as Sting and Thorham said, isn't it just a plain 64 colour picture ?

It is, but that would make it AGA only, and Where Time Stood Still i'm doing to work on OCS/ECS as well.

I just assumed it was EHB as pretty much no Amiga software when displaying the image gives any indication its not, they don't seem to be able to distinguish between the two formats, just interprets both as 64 half brite.

Retroplay · 23 April 2014, 19:12

I reduced it to 32 colours in DPaint 4.
It looks fine to me, the changes are minimal tbh, see for yourself image is in the zone.

adrdesign · 23 April 2014, 19:31

I've found how to retain quality. I think the picture isn't using the colors from the EHB palette, only the real 32 colors. Check it.

1) Open Ppaint 320x256 32colors
2) Open the EHB image as a brush and take the colors from it (alt b)
3) You can see the picture is the same as in png, no color loss.
4) paste the brush and save as iff.

Galahad/FLT · 23 April 2014, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

I reduced it to 32 colours in DPaint 4.
It looks fine to me, the changes are minimal tbh, see for yourself image is in the zone.

There are some noticeable differences, but I agree, its still better than the ST original screen, so thanks for your help, and i'll probably include it

Steve · 23 April 2014, 23:06

Strange. My IFF analyser program loads it fine although IrfanView shows a dodgy image. My program doesn't read it as 24 bit and does load it as a 64 colour image. Strange that there is a reserved setting which should be 0 but this image has it registered as 128. I wonder if this is fooling some image programs? It certainly isn't 24 bit.

Just had a closer look at my source code and the reserved setting is in the bitmap header and is called 'pad'. It should be 0 and is 128. I think this was reserved for future use. Could this be the reason the image is failing on some programs?

Ok, I have edited the file in a hex editor and changed the value in this byte back to zero. It didn't fix the image. Its weird this!

Codetapper · 24 April 2014, 01:03

What about resaving the original as a HAM image? Some images look really good in HAM, others not so hot. But worth a shot.

23 April 2014, 01:44	#1
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 9,004	EHB problems Where time stood still is nearly finished, and I want to include a 64 EHB picture that Greyfox did, but i'm having problems with it. On AGA in Winuae, I can get it to display properly when run from assembly in Devpac, but external running of it, and the colours are completely fucked. So I thought maybe my settings for EHB were wrong, but either EHB is very fussy or theres something fundamentally wrong with the iff file. Now I can get it to display properly in my code, but external its buggered. If I try to display the IFF in Iffmaster, the colours are wrong. If I load it into PPaint, its correct. If I try and load using Viewtek as IFF, its wrong. If I try my code on A500 ECS WinUAE, the colours are wrong. So I thought, ok, so obviously i'm doing something wrong, so I sought out a EHB game, and Rolling Ronny has a EHB title screen, so I ripped that and it displays perfectly in every piece of software i've tried it in, so clearly theres something fundamentally wrong with the image Greyfox has provided. Is there a piece of software on the Amiga that perfectly displays all the contents of the IFF file so I can try and figure out what the hell the problem is, because its just silly bullshit like this which is stopping it being released!

23 April 2014, 14:51	#6
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	Can you upload the iff file to the zone. I'll take a quick look to see if I can figure out what is wrong with it. There could be a mask interleaved in the image which isn't being correctly removed in the reader. Last edited by Steve; 23 April 2014 at 16:14.

23 April 2014, 23:06	#19
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	Strange. My IFF analyser program loads it fine although IrfanView shows a dodgy image. My program doesn't read it as 24 bit and does load it as a 64 colour image. Strange that there is a reserved setting which should be 0 but this image has it registered as 128. I wonder if this is fooling some image programs? It certainly isn't 24 bit. Just had a closer look at my source code and the reserved setting is in the bitmap header and is called 'pad'. It should be 0 and is 128. I think this was reserved for future use. Could this be the reason the image is failing on some programs? Ok, I have edited the file in a hex editor and changed the value in this byte back to zero. It didn't fix the image. Its weird this! Last edited by Steve; 23 April 2014 at 23:21.

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23 April 2014, 03:53	#2
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,424	Yes : deluxe paint V. I used it on Lionheart original graphics files to help DJ Thunder when he was remaking Lionheart on PC from the amiga source files. the caves graphics are IFF 64 colors, and those were not displaying external properly.

23 April 2014, 06:25	#3
NovaCoder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne/Australia Posts: 4,400	Hiya, This might be a really stupid suggestion, but couldn't just load up the IFF in PPaint and then save it as a new file. Wouldn't that fix it up the colour formats?

23 April 2014, 08:30	#4
Coagulus Gets there in the end... Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 863	I had problems in my game where some graphics saved in PPaint weren't loading in Blitz, I loaded them into DPaint and saved them out again and all was fine then.

23 April 2014, 12:01	#5
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	You're either trying to display a 64 color image as EHB, or you (or the Copper program output from IFF-Master) are trying to set a 24-bit RGB palette, which will result in messed up colors on ECS and OCS which only have 12-bit RGB.

23 April 2014, 15:46	#7
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	If PPaint can load the picture correctly just save it using PPaint and convert it again.

23 April 2014, 18:42	#9
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	It's just like I suspected: a 64 color image using 24-bit RGB. You can actually see this immediately by opening the picture in DPaint or PPaint and looking at the palette.

23 April 2014, 18:42	#10
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,085	Does the image I zoned work ?

23 April 2014, 18:44	#11
Thorham Computer Nerd Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands Age: 47 Posts: 3,764	The problem is that the image is a plain 64 color image and not EHB. It's also not possible to convert the image to EHB without color loss (tried it with Adpro 2.5.1).

23 April 2014, 18:46	#12
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	Leffmann and Thorham are right, this is not a valid EHB picture.

23 April 2014, 18:56	#14
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,085	Hehe, I did a little cheating to be honest. I loaded the .iff in Photoshop and saved it as a .bmp, then loaded the .bmp in PPaint and saved it as .iff But as Sting and Thorham said, isn't it just a plain 64 colour picture ?

23 April 2014, 19:12	#16
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,085	I reduced it to 32 colours in DPaint 4. It looks fine to me, the changes are minimal tbh, see for yourself image is in the zone.

24 April 2014, 01:03	#20
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	What about resaving the original as a HAM image? Some images look really good in HAM, others not so hot. But worth a shot.

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