Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive... - Page 27

Ian · 30 May 2018, 20:44

Topic closed while I clean up the thread after splitting it.

New topic spawned from this thread is here:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=92858

This thread will reopen when all posts in the other thread are removed.

swinkamor12 · 31 May 2018, 06:23

ok.

UltraNarwhal · 14 October 2023, 17:47

A few years later and Amiga homebrew has increased, ASM coders & game engine users pumping out content.

Still whiners whining why AGA game isn't 256 colours, ignoring a game made with an engine (much like Game Maker was hated ages ago) due to ignorance.

Tigerskunk · 14 October 2023, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraNarwhal

Still whiners whining why AGA game isn't 256 colours, ignoring a game made with an engine (much like Game Maker was hated ages ago) due to ignorance.

What's your problem here?

UltraNarwhal · 14 October 2023, 20:19

After seeing comments on news articles/videos about new games coming to Amiga, some new developers may have a change of heart and not bother making games and cause a drought again.

kriz · 14 October 2023, 20:42

Ahhh if you make something you have to learn to appreciate the positive feedback or any feedback at all, most things goes released without any feedback at all (or 1% commenting or even less).. Sadly...

sokolovic · 14 October 2023, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

What's your problem here?

I suppose this is relative to a post in another thread where someone was considering that Scorpion Engine games weren't real games but usual "Scorpion Engine mess".

Cris1997XX · 14 October 2023, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraNarwhal

A few years later and Amiga homebrew has increased, ASM coders & game engine users pumping out content.

Still whiners whining why AGA game isn't 256 colours, ignoring a game made with an engine (much like Game Maker was hated ages ago) due to ignorance.

That's frickin' hilarious, if people wanted to make games using 256 colors they would program for MS-DOS

UltraNarwhal · 14 October 2023, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I suppose this is relative to a post in another thread where someone was considering that Scorpion Engine games weren't real games but usual "Scorpion Engine mess".

Hadn't seen that, it was more to do with stuff on other sites.
Also not related to any of my stuff or constructive feedback.

Samurai_Crow · 14 October 2023, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

That's frickin' hilarious, if people wanted to make games using 256 colors they would program for MS-DOS

Just because it has 8 bitplanes doesn't mean it needs to use all of them. In fact I would recommend using 7 or less to free up palette registers for sprite tricks and bank selection optimization. (Or double buffering palette bank changes to do both!)

Cris1997XX · 15 October 2023, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

Just because it has 8 bitplanes doesn't mean it needs to use all of them. In fact I would recommend using 7 or less to free up palette registers for sprite tricks and bank selection optimization. (Or double buffering palette bank changes to do both!)

Yeah, I'd say 128 colors are more than enough really. Going beyond that will just bog down the game to a crawl...unless you're using an accelerator

BSzili · 15 October 2023, 13:18

Also using all 8 bitplanes doesn't necessarily mean 256 unique colors. In dual playfield mode you have 15 colors + 1 transparent for both playfields, so you only get 31 unique colors including the background.

A500 · 15 October 2023, 13:42

I'm really happy about the current situation. We get new games and many of them are good or even great!

Some people just can't understand that if a game is not to their liking, they can simply look elsewhere instead of whining about what they think is wrong about the game. Constructive feedback is of course another thing, but that should come with an acceptance of the fact that the author(s) may not agree with it or are unable to take action. We all know the same happens with other arts as well. Some people even pay for tickets to concerts just to be able to try and spoil it for the others by booing at the band.

In the Amiga scene, some people seem to confuse technical achievements and gameplay. If a game is not breaking new boundaries technically or, banish the thought, uses a game engine made by someone else, it's automatically considered rubbish even when the game has entertainment value. I don't know why that is so - maybe some persons just want to relive the days when they could brag about how great Shadow of the Beast is compared to anything other platforms had on offer then, even when the game itself was anything but groundbreaking?

CCCP alert · 15 October 2023, 18:29

It's only really an issue if the game is being charged for, expecting a Shaun Southern quality remake of Amiga Chase HQ for free, if it is ever done, is a bit OTT but if the game is not free then it's a valid concern, certainly wouldn't be something I would buy but YMMV.

You can do a more impressive Chase HQ conversion than the turd shamelessly released by Ocean for the C64 using your brain and compiled BASIC. It depends what the developer's reason was for making a game, like I said if it's just to prove a point then I don't really care if it isn't 100% pushing the host machine to breaking point like Ridge Racer 4 does on a PS1 console (ditto the Ridge Racer 60fps tech demo on the bonus CD it came with).

Coding talent is always rarer, it's relatively easy to do pixel art compared to coding, getting them to move at AAA quality coding levels is a very very rare talent......so no different to back then in the 80s and 90s

Maybe one day ChatGPT will generate machine code sources for us as well as it does for Unity right now.

Tigerskunk · 15 October 2023, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraNarwhal

Hadn't seen that, it was more to do with stuff on other sites.

Where?

UltraNarwhal · 15 October 2023, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

Where?

YouTube & IRN.

Megalomaniac · 15 October 2023, 23:27

This is a pleasingly dated headline now. The last eight years have seen some great stuff - from conversions of existing games (from everything from arcade to PC to mobiles to C64 to MSX), updated backportings, resurfaced old games, sequels by original developers, and wonderful new creations. It's a shame to see people so critical of this work, especially when it's unconstructive. People making these games are doing it as a spare-time hobby, nobody will get rich from it.

Tsak · 16 October 2023, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

This is a pleasingly dated headline now.

True

At least the thread served its purpose being an open call to action back then. And also showcasing the demand.

Bruce Abbott · 16 October 2023, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCP alert

Coding talent is always rarer, it's relatively easy to do pixel art compared to coding, getting them to move at AAA quality coding levels is a very very rare talent......so no different to back then in the 80s and 90s

I'm not sure that's true. In my experience the coding was the easy part.

Perhaps that's why we had so many poor games - too much emphasis on coding and not enough on the rest.

'AAA' quality means what? fast 8 way scrolling at 60fp with huge sprites and parallax affects? That doesn't make a good game. You can make a great game with a lot less, or a poor game with it. Having a competent game engine is just the start...

Samurai_Crow · 16 October 2023, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCP alert

Maybe one day ChatGPT will generate machine code sources for us as well as it does for Unity right now.

The reason art is now more important than coding. Coders are being displaced at a faster rate than game artists by AI.

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30 May 2018, 20:44	#521
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Topic closed while I clean up the thread after splitting it. New topic spawned from this thread is here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=92858 This thread will reopen when all posts in the other thread are removed.

31 May 2018, 06:23	#522
swinkamor12 Banned Join Date: May 2017 Location: Vienna/Austria Posts: 84	ok.

14 October 2023, 17:47	#523
UltraNarwhal Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 300	A few years later and Amiga homebrew has increased, ASM coders & game engine users pumping out content. Still whiners whining why AGA game isn't 256 colours, ignoring a game made with an engine (much like Game Maker was hated ages ago) due to ignorance.

14 October 2023, 20:19	#525
UltraNarwhal Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 300	After seeing comments on news articles/videos about new games coming to Amiga, some new developers may have a change of heart and not bother making games and cause a drought again.

14 October 2023, 20:42	#526
kriz Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: No(R)Way Age: 41 Posts: 3,198	Ahhh if you make something you have to learn to appreciate the positive feedback or any feedback at all, most things goes released without any feedback at all (or 1% commenting or even less).. Sadly...

15 October 2023, 13:18	#532
BSzili old chunk of coal Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hungary Posts: 1,289	Also using all 8 bitplanes doesn't necessarily mean 256 unique colors. In dual playfield mode you have 15 colors + 1 transparent for both playfields, so you only get 31 unique colors including the background.

15 October 2023, 13:42	#533
A500 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Finland Posts: 362	I'm really happy about the current situation. We get new games and many of them are good or even great! Some people just can't understand that if a game is not to their liking, they can simply look elsewhere instead of whining about what they think is wrong about the game. Constructive feedback is of course another thing, but that should come with an acceptance of the fact that the author(s) may not agree with it or are unable to take action. We all know the same happens with other arts as well. Some people even pay for tickets to concerts just to be able to try and spoil it for the others by booing at the band. In the Amiga scene, some people seem to confuse technical achievements and gameplay. If a game is not breaking new boundaries technically or, banish the thought, uses a game engine made by someone else, it's automatically considered rubbish even when the game has entertainment value. I don't know why that is so - maybe some persons just want to relive the days when they could brag about how great Shadow of the Beast is compared to anything other platforms had on offer then, even when the game itself was anything but groundbreaking?

15 October 2023, 18:29	#534
CCCP alert Registered User Join Date: May 2023 Location: essex Posts: 457	It's only really an issue if the game is being charged for, expecting a Shaun Southern quality remake of Amiga Chase HQ for free, if it is ever done, is a bit OTT but if the game is not free then it's a valid concern, certainly wouldn't be something I would buy but YMMV. You can do a more impressive Chase HQ conversion than the turd shamelessly released by Ocean for the C64 using your brain and compiled BASIC. It depends what the developer's reason was for making a game, like I said if it's just to prove a point then I don't really care if it isn't 100% pushing the host machine to breaking point like Ridge Racer 4 does on a PS1 console (ditto the Ridge Racer 60fps tech demo on the bonus CD it came with). Coding talent is always rarer, it's relatively easy to do pixel art compared to coding, getting them to move at AAA quality coding levels is a very very rare talent......so no different to back then in the 80s and 90s Maybe one day ChatGPT will generate machine code sources for us as well as it does for Unity right now.

15 October 2023, 23:27	#537
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 1,014	This is a pleasingly dated headline now. The last eight years have seen some great stuff - from conversions of existing games (from everything from arcade to PC to mobiles to C64 to MSX), updated backportings, resurfaced old games, sequels by original developers, and wonderful new creations. It's a shame to see people so critical of this work, especially when it's unconstructive. People making these games are doing it as a spare-time hobby, nobody will get rich from it.

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