Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[Rochabian]

For me the witch hunt should be closed.
Nintendo is a good example about how they have their copyright respected.
If the rights owners doesn't care about their software be distributed, then.....they doesn't care.
Not everything has to be binary.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

For me the witch hunt should be closed.
Nintendo is a good example about how they have their copyright respected.
If the rights owners doesn't care about their software be distributed, then.....they doesn't care.
Not everything has to be binary.

But my computer only understands binaries....

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

As I said - not my business and I'm fine with that. My point was that there is legally no difference and it makes no sense to point others.

There is a difference...

The Apollo team are a commercial entity in business; and selling hardware bundled with still for sale software i.e. Amiga OS 3.9; amongst other stuff.

...not to mention making it available on their website / forum, one example: http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=22597

EAB is not selling anything or making money. Also, as mentioned numerous times now; show me where there are any commercial / still sold games and software on any EAB resource?

[Turran]

Originally Posted by AMike

Because it is assumed that the more attractive the offer of a site is, the higher the donations are. Access to a large amount of software is obviously attractive and for some probably more valuable than the rest of the site's content. (no offense-I like the work of the EAB) In such cases, it will always be interpreted negatively.

What is the question? How much I make in donations from running the 8TB FTP on a 10GBit line (Shared but mostly unused)?


2020:

May: 1 donation for $5 total ($4.43 received)
Apr: 2 donations for $15 total ($13,74? received)
Mar: 2 donations for $20 total ($18,54 received)
Feb: 0 donations
Jan: 2 donations for $15 total (less received. See above for an average)



2019:
Dec: 0 donations
Nov: 2 donations, $20
Oct: 1 donation, $10
Sep: 1 donation, $10
Aug: 3 donations, $25
Jul: 1 donation, $10


You get the picture. This includes some donations for the WHDLoad downloader (it has a donate button as well) so its not all for the FTP alone.
Also, I have one supporter who almost always donates (Thank you mr R.K) every month, a $10 or €5. At least of the donations above, each month, are from him.

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Gorf

But my computer only understands binaries....

Yes, Binaries are for computers, not humans

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

Yes, Binaries are for computers, not humans

Maybe to some degree ...
(trying to give a non-binary answer)

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

Nintendo is a good example about how they have their copyright respected.

Funny that you should mention Nintendo. It appears that the CoffinOS image also contains a bunch of Nintendo ROMs for the Gameboy, NES and SNES...

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

There is a difference...

As already often written - legally not - and at the end that's the only point that matters, the legal situation is the same for everyone. See name of the topic -> Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team. You can also change it to: Legality of english Amiga Board.

What you try is to say the others are much more evil than us and we have a good intentions and the others not. In the end a personal opinion and very bad position to judge others.

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Funny that you should mention Nintendo. It appears that the CoffinOS image also contains a bunch of Nintendo ROMs for the Gameboy, NES and SNES...

How many Vampire Users ?
Nintendo will surely not move an ear for such a niche...

[E-Penguin]

Originally Posted by BippyM

The fact is, this image will only work with a vampire, and is supplied by the vampire team on their website.. Therefore, they are selling it!!

also

Originally Posted by DamienD

The Apollo team are a commercial entity in business; and selling hardware bundled with still for sale software i.e. Amiga OS 3.9; amongst other stuff.

No they're not; the Vampire-specific stuff (p96 drivers etc) are available on the website as official downloads but CoffinOS isn't. Whether the same people are involved, maybe, but it's neither bundled with the Vampire or officially endorsed. Someone having a posted a link to it on the forum does not make it official.

The Vampire isn't bundled with any software, and the only official software is entirely legal.

<edit> OK it's bundled with a KS3.1 in the flash but that's got a licence

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

How many Vampire Users ?
Nintendo will surely not move an ear for such a niche...

*shrug* Maybe you should ask them and see. But it's not the point I was making, just an observation that made me chuckle.

[Olaf Barthel]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Ok, but do they have the right to include this in their hacked Amiga OS 3.9 distro?

Demo versions of both Roadshow and CygnusEd are safe to distribute in this form.

AmigaOS 3.9 is a different matter altogether since it contains the work of several individuals who contributed to the project. This is not a legacy product fully owned by a company which left the Amiga market almost 20 years ago. The owners of Haage & Partner GmbH cannot abrogate the rights of the contributors.

You might claim, as I would, that the commercial exploitation of AmigaOS 3.9 has run its course and every bit of software that went into it has long had its chance to earn money for its author.

But there's a difference between asking for consent to include this material and maybe even receiving it, and using it without asking for consent first. While you can always ask for forgiveness later, if you believe that your reasons for not having done so in the first place were well and truly justified, you'll miss out on hearing what an author might want to contribute, and maybe why he would be reluctant to do so.

There are plenty of reasons to care or not to care about such matters. In my opinion, the Amiga communities being what they are, it does make a difference if you take something out of the pot without also putting something back into it, so to speak. This is a very risky approach in an environment which has come to depend upon goodwill. Goodwill being hard to build and much more easily eroded.

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

*shrug* Maybe you should ask them and see. But it's not the point I was making, just an observation that made me chuckle.

No problem, i've understood it like that too.

I just mentioned the fact that given the number of Vampire users, enforcing copyright does not help much, it is rather a question of ethics rather than knowing that it is illegal or not

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by E-Penguin

No they're not; the Vampire-specific stuff (p96 drivers etc) are available on the website as official downloads but CoffinOS isn't. Whether the same people are involved, maybe, but it's neither bundled with the Vampire or officially endorsed. Someone having a posted a link to it on the forum does not make it official.

Do you see links on EAB to "Amiga OS" media or "KS ROMs"?

No, because it would be removed immediately by the moderation team as per "Rules & Help" --> "Workbench disks, Kickstart ROMs & software or music files still supported/for sale"...

You say that the Apollo team are not involved etc. but yet they allow this illegal distro to be linked to from their website / forum

I wonder what AndreasM at Amiga Future and APC&TCP would say about these being included in the "CoffinOS" distro?

 
FlyinHigh                    Dir ----rwed 29-Mar-20 21:25:38
CygnusEd                     Dir ----rwed 20-May-19 21:12:57
Directory "dh1:Tools/GoldED" on Monday 01-Jun-20

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

officially AROS is the main system now. That includes RTG, not your beloved P96. Your constant moaning starts to nerve.

Unfortunately, it does not matter what is "officially claimed to be the main system" as long as the "inofficial illegal copy" is made available to customers "as free service".



If the "official system" is AROS, which is likely fine, then they should take down the torrent link. Quite simple, isn't it?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Unfortunately, it does not matter what is "officially claimed to be the main system" as long as the "inofficial illegal copy" is made available to customers "as free service".



If the "official system" is AROS, which is likely fine, then they should take down the torrent link. Quite simple, isn't it?

Exactly

...this is the whole point of the thread; the Apollo team know this distribution of a hacked "Amiga OS 3.9" (which they've probably contributed to) plus other still commercial sold software is going on, has been for years, gets given away personally by Gunnar at Amiga expos (as stated in the amiga-news.de article), and is linked to on their own website / forum.

Yet they do absolutely nothing about it and pretend that they don't support this!!! Absolute bollocks!!!

Again if this stuff was on / linked to from EAB you can make damn sure that it would be removed immediately!!!

[Lord Aga]

Holy hell! I'm not on EAB for one day and everything falls apart. I could barely keep up with it all...

Originally Posted by DamienD

What people do on their Patreon site is none of my business!!! You expect me to police that too?

What's the deal with Coffin then? They are their own site/business. No connection to EAB. Was Coffin uploaded on EAB FTP? Did I miss something?

Originally Posted by DamienD

As I already said in this thread; I wasn't aware of KS ROMs inside these compilations on the EAB File Sever.

This is also a very bad look. An anti-Coffin crusade was mounted before checking in-house.

As stated up there, I don't get what prompted the anti-Coffin/Apollo/Vampire tirade. Were some posts deleted? Could someone sum it up for me? Unless Kolla hacked Damien's account, then everything is clear

Two cents on (il)legality issues... Amiga is a giant grey blob of rights and legality issues. It hardly helps to be the one who casts the first stone.

On OS 3.9... Where can one buy a legal copy? The only place I found is Vesalia. Anywhere else?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

This is also a very bad look. An anti-Coffin crusade was mounted before checking in-house.

As stated numerous times; we at EAB were not aware of compilations hosted on the "EAB File Server" that contain KS ROMs.

We have strict rules regarding this:

Originally Posted by Magix

If you want to upload some files to the server, please consider the following upload rules:

Upload Rules

1. DO NOT upload "Workbench Disks", "Kickstart ROMs/Disks" & software or music files still supported/for sale.
2. DO NOT upload NEVER EVER APC & TCP Software.
3. Upload your files to folder called your FTP User Name in ~Uploads (create one if it does not exist).
4. Post a reply here what you have uploaded or create a thread about it when you have several files to upload.

* * * W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G * * *

Those found in violation of points 1 & 2 of the above rules will automatically earn themselves the following ban:-

1. First Offence a 1 week ban
2. Second Offence a 1 month ban
3. Third offence a permanent ban

and have their EAB File Server accounts suspended until further notice or disabled permanently.

* * * W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G * * *

Now that we've been made aware / notified, we are talking immediate action!!!

• The "EAB File Server" has been taken offline until further notice.
• EAB GMods and FTP Admins will still have access, and be going through everything with a fine comb.

Tell me, you are blaming us for something that we didn't even know about... and we are doing everything we can to rectify!!!

What else do you want us to do exactly???

That's a totally different situation / stance to what the Apollo team are doing isn't it now???

[Lord Aga]

^ Yes I understood that. And I appreciate the consistency regarding that particular action. If you think that's the way to go, I got no beef. I just stated that it is still a very bad look to start a discussion against something before first checking in-house.

[nikosidis]

I guess the Vampire team is in a difficult position. They clearly have nothing good to say about Hyperion. Not that I'm a big fan either, but maybe it would be wise to not be so open about it as a Amiga hardware manufacturer. AROS is being worked on by 1 - 2 persons when they have time. The dream is still to bring AROS to a state where it is compatible, good enough for Amiga 68k but it is just not there and might never be. It is difficult to sell hardware, at least as stand alone hardware without a good enough OS. If they would bring out a statement they will not have anything to do with Coffin where do they stand?