Amiga 500 Office not in TOSEC - Page 3

HymnsomniaK · 09 June 2012, 00:12

Hi prowler

Great news and good job!

I have started working on the dumps today (setting up room for old amigas and workbench disks with dms and diskripper) unfortunately it seems it will take a bit longer.

I set up one of the A600's today and I had to fix the damn thing!

Certain keys not working , disk drive had AWFUL sounding seeking noises , power led not working... After attending to these issues I found a problem while trying to dump with diskripper , I have nowhere to dump a whole .adf file to. I don't have an hdd for it , only an external drive but when I dump to it I get an out of free space error. Any hints on this?

I am using an empty disk btw.

DMS dumps present no issue , of course and I already have one but I'll have to set up the A1200 first and I'll only do it after gathering dumps from the other Amiga's.

HymnsomniaK · 09 June 2012, 23:27

Hi prowler

Get ready for some bad news...

It looks like that I can get you only one dms dump , my other Amiga's disk drives are kinda busted. A500 drive starts dms dumping but for some reason after track 10 it stops reading and dms just skips the rest so only an incomplete dump from this one. A500+ the drive motor does not spin though the system does recognize a floppy being inserted...

Some so-so news...

I have found an old DVD that has dms backups of these disks but for some reason it is full of errors so I'm using recovery software on that. It'll take a while , let you know how that turns out...

prowler · 09 June 2012, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

I found a problem while trying to dump with diskripper , I have nowhere to dump a whole .adf file to. I don't have an hdd for it , only an external drive but when I dump to it I get an out of free space error. Any hints on this?

I am using an empty disk btw.

Do you have a hard drive for your A500s then?

I have never used DiskRipper myself, so I've downloaded the two DiskRipper archives from Aminet this evening to see if I can get some clue how to use them from by reading the executables with a binary file editor.

I will try them in my Amiga tomorrow, but for now it appears that this version ( http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/DiskRipper ) can be run from the CLI and can be used with [start] and [end] parameters to limit the file size so that it will fit on a floppy disk, and then you (or I) can join the halves together later after they've been transferred to a PC.

I'm not sure, but it looks like your version 1.52 ( http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/DiskRipper1.52 ) cannot be run from the CLI, but maybe the GUI provides a similar option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

DMS dumps present no issue , of course and I already have one but I'll have to set up the A1200 first and I'll only do it after gathering dumps from the other Amiga's.

Fair enough, just do what you think is best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

It looks like that I can get you only one dms dump , my other Amiga's disk drives are kinda busted. A500 drive starts dms dumping but for some reason after track 10 it stops reading and dms just skips the rest so only an incomplete dump from this one. A500+ the drive motor does not spin though the system does recognize a floppy being inserted...

That's really bad news

, but even an incomplete dump may still be useful, and one DMS dump is better than none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

I have found an old DVD that has dms backups of these disks but for some reason it is full of errors so I'm using recovery software on that. It'll take a while , let you know how that turns out...

Wow! I'm looking forward to that for sure!

I have now undeleted the Readme.info file on the Page disk, but there is absolutely no trace of a ReadMe file to go with it! The default tool it uses is "PDraw:ShowMe", and that indicates it may belong on a Professional Draw disk.

This disk set is full of surprises like that!

No problems with the PageUtil disk yet...

HymnsomniaK · 10 June 2012, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Do you have a hard drive for your A500s then?

No problems with the PageUtil disk yet...

Good to hear. In the Zone is the only successful dump I was able to get. Enjoy!

prowler · 10 June 2012, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

In the Zone is the only successful dump I was able to get. Enjoy!

Thanks!

Could you upload the partial dump you got from the A500 drive too, please?

That DMS dump contains a capture of bad block 116 with minimal corruption which is different to all the others

, but the bad block 919 capture is identical to all the others

.

HymnsomniaK · 10 June 2012, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Could you upload the partial dump you got from the A500 drive too, please?

It is in the Zone. And now some good news , I was able to retrieve the backups I made about 6 years ago.

They are included in the file for your pleasure.

prowler · 10 June 2012, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

It is in the Zone.

Thanks. I don't know yet if it will be much help, but if you captured it from that disk, it's got to be worth taking a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

And now some good news , I was able to retrieve the backups I made about 6 years ago.

They are included in the file for your pleasure.

Wow! That's fantastic news!

Well done!

Was it difficult? What recovery software did you use?

If those backups were made six years ago, then the disks would have been in better condition then (less bit rot), so those captures could be the best data we'll ever get!

I'll let you know tomorrow how they turn out.

Today, I managed to fix a lot of zeroed out sectors on the PageUtil disk image I started with (the original DMS dump from the internal drive) by importing valid data from the DiskRipper Dumps. All three sets of dumps for this disk are identical, so no more dumps will be needed.

I've only got to check that disk for deleted files now.

[Edit] Regarding using DiskRipper for making partial dumps:

DiskRipper v1.6 - This program is buggy!

Run from the CLI: "diskripper" entered without command line options displays very basic information about the program:
DiskRipper v1.6
By Ralf Huvendiek 1998

Usage: diskripper [-b] [-w] [[-d] -e <Name>] <Device> <Output-file> [Start] [End]

"diskripper df0: Office.adf" dumps a 901120 byte image, "Office.adf" of the disk mounted in df0: into the current directory.

"diskripper df0: Office.adf 0 159" should do the same thing, but an 896000 byte image is dumped instead!

"diskripper df0: Office1.adf 0 79" should dump a 450560 byte image from Tracks 0-79, and "diskripper df0: Office2.adf 80 159" should dump a 450560 byte image from Tracks 80-159, but 445440 byte images are dumped instead!

DiskRipper v1.52
Runs in a Window: Disk Ripper v1.52 ©2009 IcyCool
but there is no provision for partial dumps!

There is a disk imaging tool included with WHDLoad which might be suitable, and Codetapper's TrackTool as well. I'll have a look at them for you next.

However, with any luck, you won't need to do this now!

HymnsomniaK · 10 June 2012, 22:34

I will refrain from making further dumps until you have need for them , seems like the best to do for now.

As for recovering data from that dvd my brother used something called DD Copy to extract a full iso from it. I was a bit surprised when he told me he had successfully extracted an image without errors but so far everything in that iso works fine. I am very glad because that dvd has a lot of files that I gathered either from my own collection or from various sources online , including some stuff that I can't find anywhere else.

Good luck , here's hoping you won't need anymore images.

prowler · 10 June 2012, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

I will refrain from making further dumps until you have need for them , seems like the best to do for now.

Yes, that's the best policy now. That way, you'll save the disks and your drives from unnecessary wear and tear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

As for recovering data from that dvd my brother used something called DD Copy to extract a full iso from it. I was a bit surprised when he told me he had successfully extracted an image without errors but so far everything in that iso works fine. I am very glad because that dvd has a lot of files that I gathered either from my own collection or from various sources online , including some stuff that I can't find anywhere else.

If I were you, I'd consider writing that ISO to another DVD-R (not a DVD-RW; they're more unstable). If the dye is beginning to deteriorate on the original disc, then it won't be long before you won't be able to read it at all!

BTW, DD Copy sounds like the Linux (Unix) command line device copier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

Good luck , here's hoping you won't need anymore images.

Yes, I hope so too.

I've downloaded some TOSEC dumpe of various Gold Disk Office applications (PageSetterII, Professional Draw and Professional Calc) as well as Advantage to help find missing files and understand why other files have been added to the disks instead.

I'll upload the latest set of disks for you soon. I'd like to you have a play around with them and tell me what any error messages you see are saying.

[Edit] TrackTool and Disk2File are suitable disk imaging utilities for making partial dumps by specifying the start and end tracks in floppy-only Amigas. They can be found here:
http://whdloadrules.tripod.com/utilities.html

prowler · 11 June 2012, 23:05

Hi HymnsomniaK,

I've exhausted the information contained in all the dumps you have uploaded for this disk set.

The only remaining problems are corrupted Disk Blocks 116 and 919 on the Office disk.

In every capture bar one, those blocks are corrupted. The exception is the partial DMS dump you uploaded yesterday which has a copy of Disk Block 72 in Block 116.

I would like you to send me that disk for salvaging those two blocks, with my equipment, please. I will, of course, return it to you when I have finished with it.

The DMS dumps from the DVD are almost identical to the present day DMS dumps you have made, confirming that the disks have not measureably deteriorated over the last six years!

Whatever method you've used for storing those disks in the meantime, you'd better stick with it!

HymnsomniaK · 11 June 2012, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Hi HymnsomniaK,

I would like you to send me that disk for salvaging those two blocks, with my equipment, please. I will, of course, return it to you when I have finished with it.

The DMS dumps from the DVD are almost identical to the present day DMS dumps you have made, confirming that the disks have not measureably deteriorated over the last six years!

Whatever method you've used for storing those disks in the meantime, you'd better stick with it!

I agree , please PM me your address so I can send it to you. Storage method I use is basically "Keep away from humidity" rule. They have been inside a disk file all these years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

If I were you, I'd consider writing that ISO to another DVD-R (not a DVD-RW; they're more unstable). If the dye is beginning to deteriorate on the original disc, then it won't be long before you won't be able to read it at all!

BTW, DD Copy sounds like the Linux (Unix) command line device copier.

Yes it is that one my bro used , he said it doesn't access any fat or file system in the CD/DVD but rather scans and dumps raw data straight from the drive itself or whatever that means.
It's not the dye dieing (get it?) but a faulty DVD stack I got a few years back. Every DVD I burned from that stack has errors somehow...

prowler · 11 June 2012, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

I agree , please PM me your address so I can send it to you.

PM sent.

prowler · 15 June 2012, 01:23

Hi HymnsomniaK,

I'm not just waiting for the disk to arrive; I'm still working on this in the meantime.

Recovery of badly corrupted disk blocks in binary files is never straightforward and so, with this in mind, I've been looking at the 'Advantage' and 'Examples' disk images I downloaded from TOSEC, and found matching data for the corrupt Office Disk Block 919 in the Advantage program with which to fix the Office Graph program.

I was particularly concerned about the possibility of recovering that Disk Block, because it was so badly corrupted and every capture you have made of that disk has returned identical data for that block.

Disk Block 116 is somewhat less corrupted, and your captures have returned a few different data for it, so there's a greater chance of its recovery.

However, I've found very closely matching data for Disk Block 117 in the Examples disk image and, by deduction, similarly closely matching data for Disk Block 116.

Office Disk Block 115 contains nothing but Portuguese text strings, and the last of these appears at the beginning of Disk Block 116.

The English version of it is " No entries in directory.". The Portuguese equivalent (according to Google Translate) is " Sem entradas no diretório.".

I am going to try fixing the Office Calc program tomorrow by reconstructing Disk Block 116 based on what I have found on the Examples disk, the Portuguese text string " Sem entradas no diretório." (though a more accurate translation may exist in another program on this disk set) and your different captures for this block.

If that doesn't fix the Calc program, then at least I'll have a much better idea what I'm looking for when trying to salvage it from the original disk on my equipment.

HymnsomniaK · 15 June 2012, 02:23

Still having fun eh?

Portuguese translations of English (or any other language for that matter) usually suck. Sometimes the meaning is lost because of lack of context so something simple like "No entries in directory" can be translated to something other than what google translated it to. Doesn't mean Google is wrong , it actually nailed it , but if the person that did the translation wrote it like "Directório vazio" - means "Empty directory" - you can see how it can become confusing.
This is the reason why I always use English versions , because sometimes error messages fail to convey the correct message.

prowler · 15 June 2012, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

Still having fun eh?

Yep!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

Portuguese translations of English (or any other language for that matter) usually suck. Sometimes the meaning is lost because of lack of context so something simple like "No entries in directory" can be translated to something other than what google translated it to. Doesn't mean Google is wrong , it actually nailed it , but if the person that did the translation wrote it like "Directório vazio" - means "Empty directory" - you can see how it can become confusing.

I see what you mean. I've just had another go at translating "No entries in directory." to Portuguese in Google Translate. This time, the translation given was: "Não em entradas de diretório.".

Actually, it turns out that there is no Portuguese text in Disk Block 116; it finishes before the end of Disk Block 115, and the "Gold Disk" translation is "Não Há entradas na direct."!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HymnsomniaK

This is the reason why I always use English versions , because sometimes error messages fail to convey the correct message.

I don't blame you at all; your understanding of English is quite excellent.

Unfortunately, despite all my effort, I have not been able to fix that block. The Calc program continues to Guru following every change I have made, so it's just as well that you have sent me the disk.

The replacement code I have found must be very close to what is required, but evidently there is some mismatch. Still, it will be useful to refer to when I begin the recovery.

HymnsomniaK · 16 June 2012, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

I don't blame you at all; your understanding of English is quite excellent.

If only I could get a job as translator...

prowler · 16 June 2012, 22:12

Hi HymnsomniaK,

I received the disk this morning.

You made a great job of packing it, so it should be none the worse for its trip.

The disk looks to be in very good condition, so it's hard to believe that dumping it is proving to be problematic.

I see what you mean about the label; you'd never guess that it contains the Portuguese version of the software.

I always leave disks for 24 hours to reach equilibrium with the climate here before trying to read them, so I'll be starting work on it tomorrow.

This disk contains the only sector I have been unable to recover on the whole disk set. If I can get this in the bag, then there's a very good chance that we will soon have a set of images suitable for submission to TOSEC.

HymnsomniaK · 17 June 2012, 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

I received the disk this morning.

That was quick!

Nice to know that the postman didn't sit on it.

Kyroflux baby , do ur thang!

prowler · 18 June 2012, 01:45

Wow, it's a miracle that you got a relatively good set of images from this disk! It has lots of flaky sectors and it's actually very difficult to capture anything at all from Disk Block 116 - the only one I'm interested in.

Disk Block 919 is unrecoverable. It's been overwritten with corrupted data, so it's fortunate that I was able to find matching code on the Advantage disk with which to repair it.

I have not yet captured anything at all resembling good data for Disk Block 116. The data I have found on the Examples disk must be very close indeed to what should be in there so, while this continues, I am comparing each capture with the replacement data to try to find where the mismatch occurs and so far I have confirmed that 209 out of 512 bytes are correct...

What's clear is that, unless I get a lucky break and can capture that sector intact, the task would be hopeless if it weren't for that copy of the Examples disk in TOSEC (only the [a] disk has the relevant data!).

HymnsomniaK · 18 June 2012, 02:24

I hoped for better news... I'm starting to dislike the number 116.

At least you're having fun and learning at the same time.

09 June 2012, 00:12	#41
HymnsomniaK Onezay Riendfay Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 45 Posts: 119	Hi prowler Great news and good job! I have started working on the dumps today (setting up room for old amigas and workbench disks with dms and diskripper) unfortunately it seems it will take a bit longer. I set up one of the A600's today and I had to fix the damn thing! Certain keys not working , disk drive had AWFUL sounding seeking noises , power led not working... After attending to these issues I found a problem while trying to dump with diskripper , I have nowhere to dump a whole .adf file to. I don't have an hdd for it , only an external drive but when I dump to it I get an out of free space error. Any hints on this? I am using an empty disk btw. DMS dumps present no issue , of course and I already have one but I'll have to set up the A1200 first and I'll only do it after gathering dumps from the other Amiga's. Last edited by HymnsomniaK; 09 June 2012 at 01:26.

11 June 2012, 23:05	#50
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi HymnsomniaK, I've exhausted the information contained in all the dumps you have uploaded for this disk set. The only remaining problems are corrupted Disk Blocks 116 and 919 on the Office disk. In every capture bar one, those blocks are corrupted. The exception is the partial DMS dump you uploaded yesterday which has a copy of Disk Block 72 in Block 116. I would like you to send me that disk for salvaging those two blocks, with my equipment, please. I will, of course, return it to you when I have finished with it. The DMS dumps from the DVD are almost identical to the present day DMS dumps you have made, confirming that the disks have not measureably deteriorated over the last six years! Whatever method you've used for storing those disks in the meantime, you'd better stick with it! Last edited by prowler; 12 June 2012 at 00:03.

18 June 2012, 01:45	#59
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Wow, it's a miracle that you got a relatively good set of images from this disk! It has lots of flaky sectors and it's actually very difficult to capture anything at all from Disk Block 116 - the only one I'm interested in. Disk Block 919 is unrecoverable. It's been overwritten with corrupted data, so it's fortunate that I was able to find matching code on the Advantage disk with which to repair it. I have not yet captured anything at all resembling good data for Disk Block 116. The data I have found on the Examples disk must be very close indeed to what should be in there so, while this continues, I am comparing each capture with the replacement data to try to find where the mismatch occurs and so far I have confirmed that 209 out of 512 bytes are correct... What's clear is that, unless I get a lucky break and can capture that sector intact, the task would be hopeless if it weren't for that copy of the Examples disk in TOSEC (only the [a] disk has the relevant data!). Last edited by prowler; 18 June 2012 at 01:54.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
New Amiga Room/Office :)	fitzsteve	Hardware pics	10	06 June 2012 06:11
tosec.amiga.me (Your New TOSEC Source) is open!	Magix	News	31	19 March 2009 18:03
Compatibility with Amiga 500 and 500+ games	ErickDF	Amiga scene	2	23 May 2008 20:16
WTB: Amiga 600, 500, 500 +, 1200 (NTSC)	JeremyDay	MarketPlace	2	30 November 2006 03:27
AMIGAplus 12/2004 (#153) - Amiga Office	Paul	News	0	03 December 2004 17:29

09 June 2012, 23:27	#42
HymnsomniaK Onezay Riendfay Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 45 Posts: 119	Hi prowler Get ready for some bad news... It looks like that I can get you only one dms dump , my other Amiga's disk drives are kinda busted. A500 drive starts dms dumping but for some reason after track 10 it stops reading and dms just skips the rest so only an incomplete dump from this one. A500+ the drive motor does not spin though the system does recognize a floppy being inserted... Some so-so news... I have found an old DVD that has dms backups of these disks but for some reason it is full of errors so I'm using recovery software on that. It'll take a while , let you know how that turns out...

10 June 2012, 22:34	#48
HymnsomniaK Onezay Riendfay Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 45 Posts: 119	I will refrain from making further dumps until you have need for them , seems like the best to do for now. As for recovering data from that dvd my brother used something called DD Copy to extract a full iso from it. I was a bit surprised when he told me he had successfully extracted an image without errors but so far everything in that iso works fine. I am very glad because that dvd has a lot of files that I gathered either from my own collection or from various sources online , including some stuff that I can't find anywhere else. Good luck , here's hoping you won't need anymore images.

15 June 2012, 01:23	#53
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi HymnsomniaK, I'm not just waiting for the disk to arrive; I'm still working on this in the meantime. Recovery of badly corrupted disk blocks in binary files is never straightforward and so, with this in mind, I've been looking at the 'Advantage' and 'Examples' disk images I downloaded from TOSEC, and found matching data for the corrupt Office Disk Block 919 in the Advantage program with which to fix the Office Graph program. I was particularly concerned about the possibility of recovering that Disk Block, because it was so badly corrupted and every capture you have made of that disk has returned identical data for that block. Disk Block 116 is somewhat less corrupted, and your captures have returned a few different data for it, so there's a greater chance of its recovery. However, I've found very closely matching data for Disk Block 117 in the Examples disk image and, by deduction, similarly closely matching data for Disk Block 116. Office Disk Block 115 contains nothing but Portuguese text strings, and the last of these appears at the beginning of Disk Block 116. The English version of it is " No entries in directory.". The Portuguese equivalent (according to Google Translate) is " Sem entradas no diretório.". I am going to try fixing the Office Calc program tomorrow by reconstructing Disk Block 116 based on what I have found on the Examples disk, the Portuguese text string " Sem entradas no diretório." (though a more accurate translation may exist in another program on this disk set) and your different captures for this block. If that doesn't fix the Calc program, then at least I'll have a much better idea what I'm looking for when trying to salvage it from the original disk on my equipment.

15 June 2012, 02:23	#54
HymnsomniaK Onezay Riendfay Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 45 Posts: 119	Still having fun eh? Portuguese translations of English (or any other language for that matter) usually suck. Sometimes the meaning is lost because of lack of context so something simple like "No entries in directory" can be translated to something other than what google translated it to. Doesn't mean Google is wrong , it actually nailed it , but if the person that did the translation wrote it like "Directório vazio" - means "Empty directory" - you can see how it can become confusing. This is the reason why I always use English versions , because sometimes error messages fail to convey the correct message.

16 June 2012, 22:12	#57
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi HymnsomniaK, I received the disk this morning. You made a great job of packing it, so it should be none the worse for its trip. The disk looks to be in very good condition, so it's hard to believe that dumping it is proving to be problematic. I see what you mean about the label; you'd never guess that it contains the Portuguese version of the software. I always leave disks for 24 hours to reach equilibrium with the climate here before trying to read them, so I'll be starting work on it tomorrow. This disk contains the only sector I have been unable to recover on the whole disk set. If I can get this in the bag, then there's a very good chance that we will soon have a set of images suitable for submission to TOSEC.

18 June 2012, 02:24	#60
HymnsomniaK Onezay Riendfay Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 45 Posts: 119	I hoped for better news... I'm starting to dislike the number 116. At least you're having fun and learning at the same time.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)