14 January 2019, 16:39 | #41 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 51
Posts: 2,871
|
Very interesting, Roondar. Very interesting indeed...
Over to you, Hewitson. |
15 January 2019, 09:46 | #42 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 3,771
|
Compact Disc vs Vinyl:
CD and quality don't even belong in the same sentence. Look at the waveform, it's almost constantly clipped. The record doesn't clip one single time. As I said, a giant step backwards in sound quality. Which admittedly, has more to do than brainless fuckwits "mastering" the CD rather than differences between the actual formats themselves. Last edited by Hewitson; 15 January 2019 at 09:52. |
15 January 2019, 10:23 | #43 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 51
Posts: 2,871
|
Quote:
Last edited by Foebane; 15 January 2019 at 10:34. |
|
15 January 2019, 11:13 | #44 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,408
|
Quote:
Did you mean to include an example? As is, I can't agree with that statement. First off, I'm 100% sure that, say, classical music on CD (or even older (say 1980's-early 1990's) pop recordings) has plenty of dynamic range and equally sure that pop music re-released on vinyl these days is likely to also be heavily compressed. Secondly, you didn't counter any of the points I made on the elements of vinyl audio reproduction that are objectively (as in you can simply measure it) worse than CD's. And thirdly, the only reason that CD's can have such a 'loud' mixes to begin with is that they don't suffer from the non-flat frequency response curve, poor signal to noise ratio and variable dynamic range* that vinyl does. Or in other words, the crap mixes (which I also dislike!) are a consequence of CD's ability to play back audio with far fewer compromises than vinyl can. *) DR on vinyl is strongly dependent on what frequencies you record and where on the record the stylus is. High DR music does best at the beginning of the record, as dynamic range reduces the closer you get to the center of the record due to the smaller tracks and constant velocity of the record (which is analogous to slowly lowering the sampling rate as you go from one side of a CD to the other). -- Quote:
Interestingly, some smaller CD labels/producers are 'fighting back' against this loudness war. Then there are hybrid SACDs, which usually have a very good plain CD layer as they too let the dynamic range be as big as needed rather than compressing it to hell. |
||
15 January 2019, 11:23 | #45 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 439
|
Quote:
As much as I like vinyl for various reasons, it is technically clearly inferior to CD audio. |
|
15 January 2019, 11:42 | #46 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,408
|
I should add here that I love the experience of playing a record and feel it's a wonderful way to get 'closer' to the act of playing back music (the sheer physicality of seeing the needle move and being able to hear the sounds coming from the actual stylus even when no amplification is used just 'work' for me). My points have nothing to do with me being 'against' vinyl. It's just that I disagree with pretending it's 'better' than everything else regardless of what technical or scientific facts actually tell us.
|
15 January 2019, 11:53 | #47 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,303
|
The two waveforms of a song show a normal one and a ramped (clipping). 16bit and 32bit. That is all the information I can extrapolate.
|
19 January 2019, 00:07 | #48 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Norwich
Posts: 60
|
Quote:
|
|
19 January 2019, 02:29 | #49 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Italy
Age: 49
Posts: 2,942
|
WinUAE does a PERFECT job with audio emulation
Just try this by yourself : Take a module which you like Make a recording in .WAV with WinUAE option Create a .MP3 from the resulting .WAV Then go to this site http://www.paula8364.com/ Download the "same" .MP3 you created with WinUAE and make comparison I can ensure you that i tried this by myself with some different modules Well, result is that the real thing sounds exactly like the emulated thing Or, at least, my ears are not able to spot the difference |
19 January 2019, 17:26 | #50 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 1,153
|
I think part of it is also that people want to be able to listen to music in their cars and other noisy environments. The low dynamic range means that more of the song is audible over road noise.
|
19 January 2019, 19:52 | #51 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,837
|
Radio senders (commercial) were competing of listeners - louder one got more attention.
|
20 January 2019, 00:46 | #52 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Norwich
Posts: 60
|
As someone said on here, answered my thought about analog and 8bit merging together (ie. Octamed) better than modern digital, means you don't need to over compress the shit out of everything to make it louder and lose dynamic range. Really interesting subject though as modern methods require a lot of EQ and work to make mix work where-as everything sounds amazing in Octamed or similar (8 bit tracker) Analog vs Digital argument proven right here ...
|
20 January 2019, 02:35 | #53 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 1,153
|
Quote:
That's mainly because modern mixes have many more channels to deal with. A naive method of mixing channels is to add the signals together and divide by the number of channels. That will obviously result in each channel getting quieter as more channels are added, requiring more advanced EQ, compression, etc. The Amiga has it easy by only having to mix 2 channels for each side of the stereo image. |
|
20 January 2019, 05:00 | #54 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: I
Posts: 338
|
I have an old version of winamp which can play Amiga modules using an old plugin called in_mod.dll
this is very precise and the sound obtained playing modules is identical to my Amiga 1200 |
23 January 2019, 21:41 | #55 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ames, IA, USA
Posts: 521
|
Yeah, I used to use that too, but there is one MOD that it never was able to play correctly, i.e. same as an actual Amiga or with Deliplayer. The mod is called "Dirt.MOD". Something it did with the tempo setting just wasn't handled by that WinAmp module correctly.
|
23 January 2019, 21:46 | #56 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 3,771
|
|
29 January 2019, 21:41 | #57 |
TinkerTailorContentMaker
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 45
Posts: 1,205
|
To the posters original question... Back in the day I had a decent HI-FI system that the Amiga was hooked up to, it sounded great. These days I`m running WinUAE through a similar HI-FI, and it sounds as if it's lacking some bass frequency along with high end frequencies? It's quite subtle, just sounds weaker.
To remedy this (maybe) I record the sound module in WinUAE using NVIDIA capture (MP4 at highest bitrate, dump the video file into Sony Vegas, then use post processing on PC. Adjusting the EQ, restoring the bass and higher range frequencies. Bit of a pain but can yield better results, to my ear anyway. I guess it comes down to how you want to consume Amiga audio in the modern era. Real hardware, emulated hardware, PC mod players, YouTube, MP3s, CD's, cassette tapes etc.. Too much choice!!! |
30 January 2019, 02:52 | #58 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 372
|
A problem with digital audio, IMHO, is with the belief that because we have all the samples necessary for perfect reconstruction we get perfect reconstruction when those samples are output through some simple filter.
But this is incorrect. Absolutely perfect reconstruction requires that all samples be read before the first value is output. Anything less will not give perfect reconstruction. Practically, perfect reconstruction isn't usually necessary, but any filter shorter than the entire length of the sample is going to introduce some amount of interpolation error. How this error manifests itself depends on the playback hardware. Of course all the typical abuses, clipping, etc, don't help either. |
30 January 2019, 14:08 | #59 |
OctaMED Music Composer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Venice - Italy
Age: 49
Posts: 666
|
Because Paula DACs have an unique sound texture.
|
13 February 2019, 11:45 | #60 | ||
Music lord
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liverpool, UK
Age: 50
Posts: 630
|
Quote:
Quote:
I've just been reading back at some of the other comments from the past few weeks and there is some extraordinary misinformation in there. "everything sounds amazing in Octamed or similar". You've got to be joking. Most of it sounds like it came out of someone's arse. If you think it all sounds amazing it's because your level of expectation for how it should sound is so low. Last edited by FromWithin; 13 February 2019 at 16:05. |
||
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Amiga Modules with original sound (DC-BASS Source filter MOD) | technick | support.Other | 0 | 21 February 2012 22:40 |
Trapped 2 music modules | s2325 | request.Modules | 11 | 04 October 2011 11:17 |
oldest music modules | s2325 | request.Modules | 10 | 12 November 2008 11:55 |
Amiga music modules | fsx | Amiga scene | 0 | 13 November 2007 11:28 |
World of Sound (1994)(U. S. Dreams), MODules from Amiga | dax | Amiga scene | 0 | 26 January 2007 13:08 |
|
|