Bridgeboard emulation (x86 CPU, for example A2286)

31 December 2014, 19:57

What about adding Brigdeboard PC Card emulation to WinUAE ?

.
.
.
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Ok, I am joking ;-)

Giuseppe Chillemi

Toni Wilen · 02 January 2015, 20:24

PCI bridge emulation is actually planned. Someday as usually.

It isn't that stupid idea, there may be useful PCI/PCI-e hardware implementations in other open source virtual machines that can be used with PCI bridge emulation in Amiga emulation.

jbenam · 02 January 2015, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

PCI bridge emulation is actually planned. Someday as usually.

It isn't that stupid idea, there may be useful PCI/PCI-e hardware implementations in other open source virtual machines that can be used with PCI bridge emulation in Amiga emulation.

I think Giuseppe meant emulating some of those boards which have got a real x86 on it (like the A2286).

I suppose QEMU should make that kinda easy to do?

Toni Wilen · 03 January 2015, 11:20

Ok, that kind of emulation is getting close to being more than most pointless way to emulate old x86 programs.

Don't need QEMU, some much simpler and much much much less complex x86 emulator should be more than enough to emulate some max 10MHz pre-386 x86 CPU.

Biggest technical issue is, as usual, lack of hardware information. At least there was some PPC board information available (From Linux and NetBSD) but I don't think anyone wanted to reverse-engineer those bridgeboards.

Stupid, pointless and very possible. Maybe. Someday.

03 January 2015, 11:37

Come on ! Re-enacting the 1985's Amiga world premiere would be awesome.

[ Show youtube player ]
(Starting from 10:00)

Jope · 03 January 2015, 13:06

You can already do that, the premiere IBM emulation was done with Transformer.

Noth · 10 January 2015, 20:58

How about PCEM http://pcem-emulator.co.uk/ as a base for the bridgeboard? Could be as good as a GoldenGate Vortex one...

Toni Wilen · 13 January 2015, 08:40

Finding optimal PC/x86 emulator is the very last problem to solve.

IO/memory mappings from both sides of hardware is needed first. (What hardware Amiga side sees and vice versa). I don't think this information is easily available. (as usual).

Locutus · 13 January 2015, 09:35

Isnt the documentation and CPLD code of the Prometheus board open?

One thing i wonder what use it would be though.

Ofcourse you could use existing code for NE2k, CL or S3 VGA, Ensonic audio, PCI-Serial. But all of those are covered by Zorro board emulations.

And writing a PCI VSA100 or R200 emulation does not sound appealing :-P

Toni Wilen · 13 January 2015, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locutus

Isnt the documentation and CPLD code of the Prometheus board open?

x86 bridge boards, not PCI. I also misunderstood it first. Title edited

Quote:

And writing a PCI VSA100 or R200 emulation does not sound appealing :-P

No but some other open source virtual machine/pc emulator may implement something useful in the future.

mark_k · 15 January 2015, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

IO/memory mappings from both sides of hardware is needed first. (What hardware Amiga side sees and vice versa). I don't think this information is easily available. (as usual).

The A500/A2000 Technical Reference Manual has some info starting on page 109.

Leo42 · 17 January 2015, 17:32

This site contains bridgeboard stuff too: disk images, Janus sdk, some documents,...

Toni Wilen · 17 January 2015, 19:47

Technical reference seems to include everything needed to emulate it. (I have had those manual scans for ages but I forgot about bridgeboard info, probably because it is was so uninteresting..)

Of course it is not going to happen any time soon.

Leo42 · 17 January 2015, 19:56

If it's as anytime soon as ppc emulation that's good

Toni Wilen · 19 July 2015, 21:02

"Any time soon" is now proven to be about 6 months.

Locutus · 20 July 2015, 00:46

That's still faster then 'Just 2 more weeks' (-:

Jope · 20 July 2015, 09:06

Seeing this gives me perverse satisfaction. :-D

Kitchen2010 · 20 July 2015, 10:50

Wow, thank you very much Tony Wilen !

It is very nice to see that you have already come so far !

Can you say us what exactly works and where the emulation fails ? Maybe some people owning the real hardware may help you (e.g. finding the real hardware addresses) !

Toni Wilen · 20 July 2015, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Seeing this gives me perverse satisfaction. :-D

It is proper native emulation in emulation experience!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchen2010

Wow, thank you very much Tony Wilen !

It is very nice to see that you have already come so far !

Can you say us what exactly works and where the emulation fails ? Maybe some people owning the real hardware may help you (e.g. finding the real hardware addresses) !

Above screenshot was first test run that didn't fail during bios hardware diagnostics, x86 code wrote something to display ram, Amiga-side code handled it properly and was converted to Amiga window.

For example floppy controller is totally unimplemented, interrupt stuff is not complete, configuration jumpers are not fully decoded. Too early for debugging.

Toni Wilen · 20 July 2015, 17:55

Anyone have Sidecar/A2088 compatible installed MSDOS janus "hardfile"?

(Floppy controller emulation is too boring task, maybe later..)

31 December 2014, 19:57	#1
GiuseppeC Posts: n/a	Bridgeboard emulation (x86 CPU, for example A2286) What about adding Brigdeboard PC Card emulation to WinUAE ? . . . . Ok, I am joking ;-) Giuseppe Chillemi

19 July 2015, 21:02	#15
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	"Any time soon" is now proven to be about 6 months. Attached Thumbnails

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02 January 2015, 20:24	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	PCI bridge emulation is actually planned. Someday as usually. It isn't that stupid idea, there may be useful PCI/PCI-e hardware implementations in other open source virtual machines that can be used with PCI bridge emulation in Amiga emulation.

03 January 2015, 11:20	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Ok, that kind of emulation is getting close to being more than most pointless way to emulate old x86 programs. Don't need QEMU, some much simpler and much much much less complex x86 emulator should be more than enough to emulate some max 10MHz pre-386 x86 CPU. Biggest technical issue is, as usual, lack of hardware information. At least there was some PPC board information available (From Linux and NetBSD) but I don't think anyone wanted to reverse-engineer those bridgeboards. Stupid, pointless and very possible. Maybe. Someday.

03 January 2015, 11:37	#5
Jul Posts: n/a	Come on ! Re-enacting the 1985's Amiga world premiere would be awesome. [ Show youtube player ] (Starting from 10:00)

03 January 2015, 13:06	#6
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	You can already do that, the premiere IBM emulation was done with Transformer.

10 January 2015, 20:58	#7
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	How about PCEM http://pcem-emulator.co.uk/ as a base for the bridgeboard? Could be as good as a GoldenGate Vortex one...

13 January 2015, 08:40	#8
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Finding optimal PC/x86 emulator is the very last problem to solve. IO/memory mappings from both sides of hardware is needed first. (What hardware Amiga side sees and vice versa). I don't think this information is easily available. (as usual).

13 January 2015, 09:35	#9
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 1,176	Isnt the documentation and CPLD code of the Prometheus board open? One thing i wonder what use it would be though. Ofcourse you could use existing code for NE2k, CL or S3 VGA, Ensonic audio, PCI-Serial. But all of those are covered by Zorro board emulations. And writing a PCI VSA100 or R200 emulation does not sound appealing :-P

17 January 2015, 17:32	#12
Leo42 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 134	This site contains bridgeboard stuff too: disk images, Janus sdk, some documents,...

17 January 2015, 19:47	#13
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Technical reference seems to include everything needed to emulate it. (I have had those manual scans for ages but I forgot about bridgeboard info, probably because it is was so uninteresting..) Of course it is not going to happen any time soon.

17 January 2015, 19:56	#14
Leo42 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 134	If it's as anytime soon as ppc emulation that's good

20 July 2015, 00:46	#16
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 1,176	That's still faster then 'Just 2 more weeks' (-:

20 July 2015, 09:06	#17
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Seeing this gives me perverse satisfaction. :-D

20 July 2015, 10:50	#18
Kitchen2010 Registered User Join Date: May 2015 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 25	Wow, thank you very much Tony Wilen ! It is very nice to see that you have already come so far ! Can you say us what exactly works and where the emulation fails ? Maybe some people owning the real hardware may help you (e.g. finding the real hardware addresses) !

20 July 2015, 17:55	#20
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Anyone have Sidecar/A2088 compatible installed MSDOS janus "hardfile"? (Floppy controller emulation is too boring task, maybe later..)

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