Copiers/devices capable of duplicating my original commercial game disks? - Page 2

mr.vince · 26 March 2013, 18:16

Did you try duping Stormlord with it?

BarryB · 26 March 2013, 22:55

What happens to the copy of Dragons Breath? I have this as an original and the copy loads past the Piracy warning, does the copy bomb further in the game?

mr.vince · 26 March 2013, 23:51

I think you get trouble with hatching Dragons. Don't remember. But it's a Speedlok. Can't be duped on an Amiga.

Try Terry's Big Adventure. Also impossible to copy (well, KF can

). Bombs before the title screen.
http://hol.abime.net/1347

dlfrsilver · 27 March 2013, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Did you try duping Stormlord with it?

nope but i could

Powercopy with syncmark is able to process any copylock.

I have tried with Ruff'n'Tumble, just perfect.

whiteb · 27 March 2013, 04:37

+1 for Kryoflux, I do not have one, but it was made by the SPS team, and they know what they are doing.

mr.vince · 27 March 2013, 07:48

Denis... Just try Stormlord, ok?

IFW · 15 April 2013, 11:48

You can't copy any disk that contains areas without flux reversals, such as Stormlord (original release).
When you copy such data:
1, drive used for reading transmits no flux reversal at all on the READ signal
2, the drive used for writing keeps the same flux as there is no change on the WRITE line
3, when you read back the data, you will get weak bits instead, as one way of generating weak bits is to exceed a certain amount of time without flux reversals...

That's the idea, it's the ultimate copy-protection, and can only be generated by a commercial duplicator, as you need much higher flux density than what you have with any home-grade equipment.

So why wasn't it used all the time?
On some drives the trick used to generate the data simply does not work... you will have flux reversals read back and the protection will fail even though the disk is original.

BarryB · 17 April 2013, 19:25

The more I read about the complexities of copy protections and the methods used to write them never ceases to amaze me, no wonder there's only a handful of people that truly understand them.

If only Kryoflux existed all those years ago!!

IFW · 19 April 2013, 11:49

...then it would have been sued to oblivion by all the publishers at the time...

Actually everyone can thank the incredible advances in mobile technology for making KryoFlux an affordable solution. Even a few years back it would have been significantly more expensive to produce, and at the heyday of disks it would have been very expensive - at least how it works; dedicated 48MHz computer for copying disks in say 1986...

fryguy · 19 April 2013, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

...then it would have been sued to oblivion by all the publishers at the time...

Actually everyone can thank the incredible advances in mobile technology for making KryoFlux an affordable solution. Even a few years back it would have been significantly more expensive to produce, and at the heyday of disks it would have been very expensive - at least how it works; dedicated 48MHz computer for copying disks in say 1986...

Would it be possible to accomplish the same thing with RPi somehow?
Perhaps that would have been a cheaper solution.

IFW · 19 April 2013, 13:06

No, because there is:
1, no hype
2, no sponsorship, grants, company involvement
3, volume is way too low

Technically might be, with an add-on card that has a hardware based sampler and some device to mux/demux the 8 GPIO lines into a lot more required for the drives and level shifters etc... not worth the effort at all, might as well do a completely new hardware.

IFW · 19 April 2013, 13:14

The KF board also runs most instructions and memory access in 1 clock cycle using SRAM and there is no refresh required.
You wouldn't have that with standard ram types used by RPi - so your clock speed advantage would very quickly disappear and you'd have to roll your own OS to make it somewhat working.

Capitaine · 13 June 2018, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

That's the idea, it's the ultimate copy-protection, and can only be generated by a commercial duplicator, as you need much higher flux density than what you have with any home-grade equipment.

Sorry to necropost, but I've read that Rob Northen interview where he said duplicators have standard PC drives : "The drives would be no different to a floppy drive you'd find in a PC"

Which seems weird to me... Looks like he was mistaken, wasn't he ?

Agilent · 13 June 2018, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitaine

Sorry to necropost, but I've read that Rob Northern interview where he said duplicators have standard PC drives : "The drives would be no different to a floppy drive you'd find in a PC"

Which seems weird to me... Looks like he was mistaken, wasn't he ?

FFS, spell the man's name correctly

27 March 2013, 07:48	#26
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Copiers/devices capable of duplicating my original commercial game disks? Denis... Just try Stormlord, ok?

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26 March 2013, 18:16	#21
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Did you try duping Stormlord with it?

26 March 2013, 22:55	#22
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	What happens to the copy of Dragons Breath? I have this as an original and the copy loads past the Piracy warning, does the copy bomb further in the game?

26 March 2013, 23:51	#23
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	I think you get trouble with hatching Dragons. Don't remember. But it's a Speedlok. Can't be duped on an Amiga. Try Terry's Big Adventure. Also impossible to copy (well, KF can ). Bombs before the title screen. http://hol.abime.net/1347

27 March 2013, 04:37	#25
whiteb Fanatically Amiga. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 54 Posts: 1,557	+1 for Kryoflux, I do not have one, but it was made by the SPS team, and they know what they are doing.

15 April 2013, 11:48	#27
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	You can't copy any disk that contains areas without flux reversals, such as Stormlord (original release). When you copy such data: 1, drive used for reading transmits no flux reversal at all on the READ signal 2, the drive used for writing keeps the same flux as there is no change on the WRITE line 3, when you read back the data, you will get weak bits instead, as one way of generating weak bits is to exceed a certain amount of time without flux reversals... That's the idea, it's the ultimate copy-protection, and can only be generated by a commercial duplicator, as you need much higher flux density than what you have with any home-grade equipment. So why wasn't it used all the time? On some drives the trick used to generate the data simply does not work... you will have flux reversals read back and the protection will fail even though the disk is original.

17 April 2013, 19:25	#28
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	The more I read about the complexities of copy protections and the methods used to write them never ceases to amaze me, no wonder there's only a handful of people that truly understand them. If only Kryoflux existed all those years ago!!

19 April 2013, 11:49	#29
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	...then it would have been sued to oblivion by all the publishers at the time... Actually everyone can thank the incredible advances in mobile technology for making KryoFlux an affordable solution. Even a few years back it would have been significantly more expensive to produce, and at the heyday of disks it would have been very expensive - at least how it works; dedicated 48MHz computer for copying disks in say 1986...

19 April 2013, 13:06	#31
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	No, because there is: 1, no hype 2, no sponsorship, grants, company involvement 3, volume is way too low Technically might be, with an add-on card that has a hardware based sampler and some device to mux/demux the 8 GPIO lines into a lot more required for the drives and level shifters etc... not worth the effort at all, might as well do a completely new hardware.

19 April 2013, 13:14	#32
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	The KF board also runs most instructions and memory access in 1 clock cycle using SRAM and there is no refresh required. You wouldn't have that with standard ram types used by RPi - so your clock speed advantage would very quickly disappear and you'd have to roll your own OS to make it somewhat working.

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