Hack@Home: 16GB mSATA SSD to Amiga IDE - for about £10

[Zetr0]

@Akira / mfilos

The advantages are not immediately apparent - but there definitely a few -

1) we now have an mSATA/SSD solution for native IDE
2) Very Inexpensive high quality 16/32GB SSD modules
3) 1/5th the set up time compared to a 40GB 2.5" Hitachi Desk Star for 12GB Data Shift
4) 1/3rd the set up time compared to a 4GB CF for the same 4GB Data Shift

I do need to have some more tests, such that how it plays with other devices on the chain (I suspect that will be interesting) - as well how it interacts with faster IDE Buses (this does mean setting up the Mediater ZIV and FAST ATA ZIV!)

Also I would like to get something larger than 64GB, perhaps 128GB to see how that presents itself on the IDE Bus


@nogginthenog

Very Nice!

Please let us know what speeds you get, also could you list your system the CPU / RAM and what IDE (Native / Other) you are using.

[LieutLaww]

Well I know Samsung do a 120gb 850 EVO mSATA it's £59.99 on Overclockers.co.uk or £55.59 on Amazon UK if that's what you were looking for

[Zetr0]

@LieutLaww

Cheers for the heads up : - since I am a cheap skate, hence the Hack@Home suffix - I won't likely be buying one for this purpose - that doesn't mean I wont liberate one from my brother later this afternoon

Interestingly overclockers.co.uk also have a 120GB Kingston SSD UV400 for £39.95 - thats getting close to pocket money prices

[LieutLaww]

I take it I could use that Samsung with no problems ?

[Zetr0]

Hmmm, that I am unsure - one would need a SATA to IDE bridge - sadly I have seen these bottle out at 60GB sizes.

Its all about if it can provide PIO 0 mode functionality.

[LieutLaww]

That Samsung is mSATA so should still work with the method you use or is it due to the size ?

[Zetr0]

@LieutLaww

I will be humbly honest - it has not been tested - thats not to say it wont work with the Amiga, but please let there not be an illusion - simply put ones mileage will vary and you should always plan for a worse case scenario if it doesn't work.

The premise in this write up was to see if we could achieve SSD technology cheaply for IDE on the Amiga. I specifically choose SandDisk SSD modules as I have a lot of experience with them and generally find that they support PIO mode 0 (atleast under 64GB) - Given the mSATA -> IDE bridge does - but even this was a subtle gamble - but at £10 all in - it seemed a great way to see what could be done =)

[LieutLaww]

Well I may try the cheap route first and see how it goes then

[nogginthenog]

@Zetr0 I have a 25MHZ A4000/30 with 16Meg fast.

I'm getting odd results with sysspeed. After a drive speed completes the system hangs. Mouse works but it's not possible to do anything, even C-A-A doesn't work. No problems with a 160Gb HDD. Removing the slave makes no difference.

MaxTransfer is correct (0x1fe00). scsi.device is 43.45 (latest patched version).
The strange thing is that I copied the OS from a HDD without problems.

There is something funny going on here. I tried 2 different IDE ribbon cables that I *know* work (1 from my main machine and the other I tested with a HDD). With both these cables the SSD is not recognised at all!!!

The working cable is a round one: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...products_id=44
The non-working ribbon cables are 2 different types 40 wire & 80 wire.

I'll continue testing...

[nogginthenog]

Bit more info:

Tried the SSD in my main Amiga, a 68060 A4000. SysSpeed is faster, but has the same hanging problem.

Back to the '030:
DHx = 160Gb HDD slave
SSx = mSATA master

1. Copied a 1Gb VOB file from a DVD to SS1. Didn't time it but copied without errors.
2. Copied the VOB file from SS1 to DH0 = 20 mins (approx 890Kb/s).

Speeds from SysInfo (which I don't 100% trust)
DH0 = 3,276,000
DH1 = 2,326,000
DH2 = 2,368,000
SS0 = 2,184,000
SS1 = 1,709,000

p.s why would higher drives be slower? DH0 & SS0 are both small 3.5G PFS boot partitions.

3. Copied the VOB file from DH0 to SS0 = 20mins

The result is the drive does seem reliable in general use. I wonder if I my cheapo KingSpec (who?) is the problem.

Zetr0 - it would be interesting if you could test SysSpeed.

[Zetr0]

@nogginthenog

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

Bit more info:

Tried the SSD in my main Amiga, a 68060 A4000. SysSpeed is faster, but has the same hanging problem.

Back to the '030:
DHx = 160Gb HDD slave
SSx = mSATA master

1. Copied a 1Gb VOB file from a DVD to SS1. Didn't time it but copied without errors.
2. Copied the VOB file from SS1 to DH0 = 20 mins (approx 890Kb/s).

Speeds from SysInfo (which I don't 100% trust)
DH0 = 3,276,000
DH1 = 2,326,000
DH2 = 2,368,000
SS0 = 2,184,000
SS1 = 1,709,000

p.s why would higher drives be slower? DH0 & SS0 are both small 3.5G PFS boot partitions.

In a nut shell it comes down to buffers =)

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

3. Copied the VOB file from DH0 to SS0 = 20mins

The result is the drive does seem reliable in general use. I wonder if I my cheapo KingSpec (who?) is the problem.

Zetr0 - it would be interesting if you could test SysSpeed.

Indeed I did -

Originally Posted by Zetr0

Something I forgot to add - some tests

Please note this is with default buffers and PFS3 running on a Vampire 2 : A080 - SILVER 7 Core.

Update : SysSpeed Results in Megabytes per second

Raw Read : 2.83 MB
Raw Write : 2.33 MB



That is a sustained data rate. Interesting thing I have noticed here is that if I run the test 3 times in succession the system locks up and requires a reboot. Obviously I was curious to ensure that this isn't a strange feature so I copied a 180MB archive file from one partition to another other - unpacked it, tested it, then packed it back up and copied over to the other partition. All in all its quite normal except for the peculiar lock up issue with SysSpeed.

This lock-up issue could be a commonality with these types of devices - more testing is required =D

[TuKo]

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

DH0 = 3,276,000
DH1 = 2,326,000
DH2 = 2,368,000
SS0 = 2,184,000
SS1 = 1,709,000

Hi,

I'm very suspicious about SysInfo hard disk results, I sometimes also get exact same result (3,276,000) when the benchmark crash. You can notice it because the result get immediatly shown, like if the benchmark was not ran.

Other results on DH1/DH2 seems ok.

[Havie]

Have tried to set this up using the recommended SATA to PATA adaptor after I found a 16gb ssd in CEX but having problems. Installed fine in Windows and copied Classic Workbench over onto a PFS3 partition.

Put in real 1200 and have had intermittent boots. Generally it just hangs the 1200. Hard rest works but just re-hangs. Sometime the hard drives have shown in early boot memory and others not. Thought it might be a power issue but tried with my wizard powerbox and still the same.

My system is a 1200 with 030@40mhz, power sythoned to external CD and this is connected (as is hard drive) via 4 way ide adpator (have no idea what model and took a bit of setting up - you're right about connecting cables the right way, I experienced a burning smell and smoke when I initially was trying to sort it out but amazingly adaptor and miggy were fine; can't say the same for the very melted cable). Systems works fine with my scandisk 1gb CF card.

Any suggestions or is it just the ssd tha isn't compatible? Strange how sometimes is has shown up and I have been able mess about in workbench...

[Zetr0]

@Havie

That is a very interesting problem.

Firstly do you know what brand the SSD adaptor is - e.g. SanDisk, Kingston etc.
Secondly was this device running intermittently on the Amiga before the IDE cable burn out?

If it is not a compatibility issue with the SSD and the native Amiga I am likely to suggest that its quiet likely the 3.3v LDO Regulator on the IDE-mSATA interface board.

5 Volts in the wrong direction can seriously damage these components so they do not work (correctly) - would you have another adaptor or SSD device to test?

[Havie]

Back@u Zetr0

Sorry - the brand is innodisk possibly this:

http://www.innodisk.com/Product/Prod...bF9JRD0wMDE%3D

Also, I wasn't clear - I burnt an ide cable a while back when I first got the adaptor and had no instrctions. it has been working fine withmy CF card for a few years. The hard disk was showing up sometimes - at first I thought it may have been a software clash between Idefix and PFS3 so I uninstalled Idefix. Then a thought a power issue so I tried a more powerful supply. Then I reformated in Winuae and just copied a basic 3.1 install. Still no luck. Then I reformatted bppt partition to use FFS and did a basic install. No go

It could be the board - this is the second one as the first arrived with a diode floating around in the bag and a screw missing. The second seems fine and works with no problems through the ide to usb adaptor (obviously).

I have the larger hard disk bug so I might try with an old 20gig ide laptop drive but would really like to get the ssd working if possible. My thoughts are that if it has shown up and even booted happily into Workbench then it does work and there is something else I am missing.

One thing I have remembered is that I have never got it to work connected directly to the intenal ide interface and it has only appeared when attached to the buffere 4 way adaptor.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly recieved.

[TroyWilkins]

I have ordered all the bits for this, and hopefully they'll be arriving soon for my A600.

Now, to look up how to install a better file system, hahaha

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by Havie

Back@u Zetr0

Sorry - the brand is innodisk possibly this:

http://www.innodisk.com/Product/Prod...bF9JRD0wMDE%3D

I am considering this brand for a next test =)

Originally Posted by Havie

Also, I wasn't clear - I burnt an ide cable a while back when I first got the adaptor and had no instrctions. it has been working fine withmy CF card for a few years. The hard disk was showing up sometimes - at first I thought it may have been a software clash between Idefix and PFS3 so I uninstalled Idefix. Then a thought a power issue so I tried a more powerful supply. Then I reformated in Winuae and just copied a basic 3.1 install. Still no luck. Then I reformatted bppt partition to use FFS and did a basic install. No go

This sounds like my other recent A600 - I have been testing the Vampire V2 on this 2D (Yes I found one Troy!) - initially it wouldn't work with any hard disk adaptor. I tried changing the cable length and I got intermittent booting - one sec it was there the next boot it wasn't. - This was apparent if I used the SSD solution or Hard disk or even CF card and adaptor - all known to be working fine on other machines.

In the end I discovered that some of the capacitors had leaked / dried up and it required capacitor replacement and clean up.

She now works first time.

Originally Posted by Havie

It could be the board - this is the second one as the first arrived with a diode floating around in the bag and a screw missing. The second seems fine and works with no problems through the ide to usb adaptor (obviously).

I have the larger hard disk bug so I might try with an old 20gig ide laptop drive but would really like to get the ssd working if possible. My thoughts are that if it has shown up and even booted happily into Workbench then it does work and there is something else I am missing.

One thing I have remembered is that I have never got it to work connected directly to the intenal ide interface and it has only appeared when attached to the buffere 4 way adaptor.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly recieved.

I would probably test the following -

Test the native IDE with a known working device -
A simple CF card and or a 2.5" HDD will do - nothing to big, but known working - use a simple workbench install like Classic Workbench 68k

Test again with the IDEFix adaptor.
Test the pieces that worked before

If you develop any intermittent fault using known working equipment I would be inclined to believe it might be the motherboard at fault providing power down the 44 PIN IDE header - at that point I would begin to suspect that the motherboard would need to have the capacitors replaced - a close inspection of the motherboard should tell you this.

Look around the IDE header at the SMD capacitors (small silver ones) If the metal leads from the components in this area are dull or dark - it is a give away that one (or more) capacitors have leaked - these need to be replaced - also if any SMD capacitor has a bubble or dimple on top - this is also a sign the capacitor is malfunctioning.

If you are unsure - take some hi-res pictures of the board (and capacitors next to the IDE and post.

I hope that this can help solve the problem.

[Havie]

Righto - had already reinstalled my 1gb CF card and this works fine through the 4 way adaptor. Will try and find time to try a hard drive as well (will need settig up and preping).

As to the caps - I still have the metal shield on so will have to remove this first. I know that it is not needed so am happy to take off. Any tips as to how to get it off safely?

Then I can have a look at the board and check the caps - more tha happy to upload some photos as not an expert at this stuff!

The other option could be that I send you the ssd - can't imagine it will cost much to post and you could try it out.

PM me if you want me to pop it in the post.

Thanks for all your help so far.

[Zetr0]

@Havie

Sure post is fine - just hit me up in PM my friend =)

I would humbly suggest that you check out the motherboard however - a small terminal flat headed screwdriver is perfect for bending the tabs in the metal shield up (vertical) - from that its quite easy to remove the top shield. Be gentle and take your time =)

[zerohour1974]

This sounds like a project that I could afford and be interested in. But how do yiu know if your mSata card is 5V rather than 3.3?