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Old 23 April 2018, 06:39   #481
sandruzzo
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
the arcade is 384x224 for GnG + 192 palettes of 16 colors.
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Old 23 April 2018, 12:23   #482
zero
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What happens if the weaker system wasn't taken into account when the game was designed? Sounds like the game would have to be hacked to bits or significant time would be spent optimising every last cycle. It's easier to port upwards IMHO.
You cut out stuff until it works. That's close to the best that the system can manage.

Porting up means you need to add stuff, which means you need someone to create extra graphics and sound, extra levels, you need to design extra effects in.

Sure, a crappy port upwards is easy and quick, but I was only talking about good ports.
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Old 23 April 2018, 12:30   #483
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the arcade is 384x224 for GnG + 192 palettes of 16 colors.
The main thing with a GnG port would be to get it moving at 50 fps. That game has a lot of very precise timing and movement required, like when the devils attack you.

Even with reduced graphic quality, as long as it moved well it would play well. GnG is actually not too bad in terms of having massive amounts of stuff on screen most of the time. The sprites are relatively small for the most part too.

I'm sure a better port than we got would be possible.
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Old 23 April 2018, 14:35   #484
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The main thing with a GnG port would be to get it moving at 50 fps. That game has a lot of very precise timing and movement required, like when the devils attack you.

Even with reduced graphic quality, as long as it moved well it would play well. GnG is actually not too bad in terms of having massive amounts of stuff on screen most of the time. The sprites are relatively small for the most part too.

I'm sure a better port than we got would be possible.
With reduce screen size 256*192, we could allmost 50hz conversion.
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Old 23 April 2018, 15:46   #485
DanScott
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Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
With reduce screen size 256*192, we could allmost 50hz conversion.
I think that a 50fps conversion could be done at 352x224 quite easily, just requires that certain elements that are non-essential are dropped (eg. Parallax back layer etc..)

It would be terrible to reduce the screen size on a game like this.
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Old 23 April 2018, 16:55   #486
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I think that a 50fps conversion could be done at 352x224 quite easily, just requires that certain elements that are non-essential are dropped (eg. Parallax back layer etc..)

It would be terrible to reduce the screen size on a game like this.
I dont' think so. Look at rygar. With 352x224 you cant' hit 50hz
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Old 23 April 2018, 17:55   #487
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With 352x224 you cant' hit 50hz
Yes you can
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Old 23 April 2018, 18:01   #488
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Yes you can
Yes, maybe if you do a little demo, but game, no way, since you need an extra word for scrolling...So far HW sprite!
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Old 23 April 2018, 18:24   #489
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Possible maybe with the AGA, but as DanScott says... lots of compromises need to be made.

The blowing tree effect mid level 1 is just one example.
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Old 23 April 2018, 18:25   #490
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Yes, maybe if you do a little demo, but game, no way, since you need an extra word for scrolling...So far HW sprite!
Yes, you lose the last hardware sprite's DMA slot.

But this sprite can still be used

Anyway, losing one sprite's DMA does not mean that you can't scroll a 16 colour background in overscan, and draw plenty of blitter objects
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Old 23 April 2018, 18:28   #491
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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Possible maybe with the AGA, but as DanScott says... lots of compromises need to be made.

The blowing tree effect mid level 1 is just one example.
I think AGA could do a pretty spot-on conversion of GnG (with parallax too)

For instance, the blowing tree effect.. you could have a few different versions of your playfield, and just switch which playfield you will display for each "frame" you want to animate the trees for. When plotting your tile data at the edges, you would need to update the "other" playfields, and use an alternate block set for the animated tree parts. It would take more chip-memory.. but it is definitely possible when you have 2mb chip to play with
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Old 23 April 2018, 19:01   #492
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I think AGA could do a pretty spot-on conversion of GnG (with parallax too)

For instance, the blowing tree effect.. you could have a few different versions of your playfield, and just switch which playfield you will display for each "frame" you want to animate the trees for. When plotting your tile data at the edges, you would need to update the "other" playfields, and use an alternate block set for the animated tree parts. It would take more chip-memory.. but it is definitely possible when you have 2mb chip to play with
If you're familiar with AGA then I'll take your word for it, I'm more of an OCS man. I didn't realise the A1200 had stock 2mb chip either.

It would be an interesting challenge... but at least a 2 year project for a single home brew coder with a full time job and a family. And for that amount of time i'd rather spend it doing a hotline Miami type game

I'd be interested to see the performance gains on AGA vs OCS. Do you still lose DMA when all over 4 bitplanes are enabled? I really am tempted to buy an AGA machine.
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Old 23 April 2018, 19:25   #493
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I'm more of an OCS man.
ha! me too

AGA has 64bit bitplane and sprite DMA fetch. I've not really looked into is a great deal. A lot of the AGA games that I did see, did not really look any much better than the good OCS/ECS games.

But I do think that in the right hands, a lot could be done on the base A1200

However I still believe a great version of G&G is possible on A500 (with some slight compromise)
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Old 23 April 2018, 19:27   #494
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with 352 you lost more that one sprite and doing 16 colors game like GnG would be ugly!
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Old Yesterday, 13:01   #495
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320 pixels wide is pretty standard for games, 352 is overscanned the way most people have their computers set up. It's all driven by Workbench being 640 pixels wide by default and the Amiga horizontal scan rate being inflexible.

If you look at the arcade version of GnG I think the collision detection for your weapon is kinda bad, like it uses an 8x8 tile hit box or something. That makes it easier to implement on the Amiga. You could use a sprite for Arthur and dual playfield, with enemies on the foreground playfield for fast blitting and sprite/bitplane collision detection similar to Leander.
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Old Yesterday, 15:53   #496
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Would it not of been better for programmers to offer high resolution back drops with lower resolution sprites or visa versa?

Also could it not be possible to present B&W back drops and use colours on graphical characters, rather than entire game?

Mixing resolution modes is possible when both are singled out. Backdrop high res, Sprite Character low res, meaning faster movement overall.

After all most Amiga backdrops were static anyways without further interaction, with perhaps maybe the exception of door opening, which was added afterwards as an overlay.

Didn't they use these tactics on Ultimate Body Blows and Galactic?
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