New 68030 accelerators for A1200 - Page 4

McTrinsic · 30 November 2015, 06:17

Yes, there us a hughe difference in warranty if you sell as company or a used item between private person.

Cheers,
McT

Lord Aga · 30 November 2015, 14:35

Every couple of months...

Whiny bit... err I mean fellow Amigans: "Hey Jens, why don't you make this and that?"
Jens: "Because of the possible complications with these and those."
Amigans: "Oh yes, we understand, but why wont you make it?"
Jens: "Again... because of the possible complications with these and those!"
Amigans: "Yes yes, but why wont you make it?"

Daedalus · 30 November 2015, 15:02

Yeah, I couldn't part with my Blizzard 1260 either, it still makes the machine feel "modern" in use. But if you look at the classic market, the majority of people buying new hardware are generally looking for WHDLoad-class machines, and when that's the case they probably won't be playing many games that benefit from faster than an 030.

The problem of reputation being tarnished by some people being incompetent or trying to use fake CPUs is made more of an issue by how small the market is. You just have to look at threads where people ask what X or Y retailer/developer is like, and there'll be plenty of people to volunteer stories of bad experiences. If you look at these enough, you start to see that it's usually the exact same story being trotted out again and again, magnifying the small issue that there was into something that can seem rampant. So, even if you get one person who physically broke their chip because they didn't have the right tools (I've seen this done with PGA chips before!), that same story will show up everywhere because everyone likes to propagate tales of woe.

Given the smaller market and the higher risk involved, I'm not sure I'd bother either.

eXeler0 · 30 November 2015, 18:17

It will be interesting to see what happens once (if) Vampire 1200 hits the market. It will severely shift the CPU/$ value compared to anything icomp has to offer...

Amiga1992 · 30 November 2015, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Every couple of months...

Whiny bit... err I mean fellow Amigans: "Hey Jens, why don't you make this and that?"
Jens: "Because of the possible complications with these and those."
Amigans: "Oh yes, we understand, but why wont you make it?"
Jens: "Again... because of the possible complications with these and those!"
Amigans: "Yes yes, but why wont you make it?"

Too true, sadly.

spudje · 30 November 2015, 20:32

Please explain to me why it still is such a challenge to get an FPGA based board? These CPUs are used in more than used Amigas. They can be emulated in software. So I would expect it the instruction set can be re-translated into VHDL or whathever you need to design a FPGA image???

To me, just implementing the CPU in a FPGA seems a lot easier than a whole amiga in the case of a MiniMig/Mist/Arcade.

kolla · 30 November 2015, 21:20

So how does mounting of the FPU and chrystal socket work, soldering and void warranty required, or not?

Marmes · 01 December 2015, 01:43

I don't think there are many amiga accelerators that memory goes beyond 80 Mhz. These boards can have memory speeds above 100 Mhz, making it as fast as a PC100 memory from those times. Does it compensate to have a 030 wich equals to a 386, going with prices as high as it's asked. Unfortunatly not for my wallet, but you have a unique technology on amiga if you get one.

Schoenfeld · 01 December 2015, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

So how does mounting of the FPU and chrystal socket work, soldering and void warranty required, or not?

Only the ACA1233 has the required preparations for an FPU. And yes, you need to solder. A canned crystal *can* be used, but you can also just close the solder-jumper to route CPU clock to the FPU.

Adding an FPU may make the whole system instable. In that case, it may help to switch off burst mode.

Any soldering on the card(s) will void warranty. I do not recommend adding an FPU.

Jens

kolla · 01 December 2015, 18:20

OK, fair enough, I am better off with my old Blizzard then.

TjLaZer · 01 December 2015, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

No, it wouldn't. Especially at the price it would be at.
Jens explained it before (also here more recently)and it makes a lot of sense. The cheaper, more modestly powered boards are top sellers, NOT the high end models.

It's a shame he won't produce any without a cpu. That would be the only way it would be affordable.

Schoenfeld · 02 December 2015, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

It's a shame he won't produce any without a cpu. That would be the only way it would be affordable.

*sigh*

Yet another person that believes component cost is the main cost factor in such a product. No, it isn't. it's just that I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a CPU that's just not worth it. If I did that, I'd either have to accept that the person selling the CPU gets more money than I would (at much less effort), or I'd have to make the unit extremely expensive (by means of "4-digit amount"). Both isn't acceptable.

Let chip brokers sit on their 040/060 stock. Do not feed them. Do not bid on eBay offerings with these CPUs, as this will drive up prices. Do not play around with a (trial-)broker account and offer lots of $$$ for these processors. This worked fine around 2012/2013 for 68030 processors, and this can work again for 040/060 processors. If there is no movement in these chips for 12-18 months, prices will go down to OK-levels.

Jens

locksmith · 02 December 2015, 11:47

hello I have a blizzard 1230 Iv its not working for some reason just wanted to know how much I would get for it as I hate looking at it love to get it repaired but it may be better to buy a cheap low end one but I love my blizzard maybe why im still looking at it lol

jbenam · 02 December 2015, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Let chip brokers sit on their 040/060 stock. Do not feed them. Do not bid on eBay offerings with these CPUs, as this will drive up prices. Do not play around with a (trial-)broker account and offer lots of $$$ for these processors. This worked fine around 2012/2013 for 68030 processors, and this can work again for 040/060 processors. If there is no movement in these chips for 12-18 months, prices will go down to OK-levels.

Jens

So there are still big enough stocks of 040s and 060s around? Interesting... Fingers crossed that prices will go down and that you'll be able to produce something with 040/060. Even 040s would be good enough as you could at least sell a finished and tested product and then offer a "060 mode" as untested and at buyer's risk

gulliver · 02 December 2015, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by locksmith

hello I have a blizzard 1230 Iv its not working for some reason just wanted to know how much I would get for it as I hate looking at it love to get it repaired but it may be better to buy a cheap low end one but I love my blizzard maybe why im still looking at it lol

If you have enough money to buy a new one, if I were you, I would better get a repair quote from stachu. In the end, if you get it repaired, you may end up with a much better accelerator (FPU + RTC + no motherboard issues to fix).

TjLaZer · 02 December 2015, 22:18

What's too expensive for a 040 or 060 chip today? I've seen plenty of 040's for $20-$30 and 060's in the $100-$160 range. I get that releasing a board with no CPU makes it hard to warranty but that should be stated that there is no warranty for untested CPUs. Keep the costs down and there will be plenty of us that will buy such a board. Just my take. All for an 040/060 that is sold with chips too. Hopefully one day.

Amiga1992 · 02 December 2015, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

What's too expensive for a 040 or 060 chip today?

Dude, he just explained the whole thing to you. Clearly.
"Yet another person that believes component cost is the main cost factor in such a product."

Give it a break.

Schoenfeld · 02 December 2015, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

What's too expensive for a 040 or 060 chip today?

I am accumulating 040s at 2-3 times the gold price (max. 7.50 EUR each) and 060s at up to five times the gold price: The most expensive XC68060 I've bought lately was 16.50 USD.

Rev.6 mask of the 68060 is something different; I pay up to 30,- EUR each. This is the only way to give an outlook on an 060 card for under 800,- EUR.

Jens

TjLaZer · 02 December 2015, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Dude, he just explained the whole thing to you. Clearly.
"Yet another person that believes component cost is the main cost factor in such a product."

Give it a break.

Dude why don't you chill the hell out? We are having a discussion here and some of us are learning. I'm clearly no expert, and neither are you.

Amiga1992 · 02 December 2015, 23:33

You're the one badgering a person with questions that he answered for you already, not me, so chilling is in place for yourself.

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30 November 2015, 06:17	#61
McTrinsic Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 527	Yes, there us a hughe difference in warranty if you sell as company or a used item between private person. Cheers, McT

30 November 2015, 14:35	#62
Lord Aga MI clan prevails Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 1,443	Every couple of months... Whiny bit... err I mean fellow Amigans: "Hey Jens, why don't you make this and that?" Jens: "Because of the possible complications with these and those." Amigans: "Oh yes, we understand, but why wont you make it?" Jens: "Again... because of the possible complications with these and those!" Amigans: "Yes yes, but why wont you make it?"

30 November 2015, 15:02	#63
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Yeah, I couldn't part with my Blizzard 1260 either, it still makes the machine feel "modern" in use. But if you look at the classic market, the majority of people buying new hardware are generally looking for WHDLoad-class machines, and when that's the case they probably won't be playing many games that benefit from faster than an 030. The problem of reputation being tarnished by some people being incompetent or trying to use fake CPUs is made more of an issue by how small the market is. You just have to look at threads where people ask what X or Y retailer/developer is like, and there'll be plenty of people to volunteer stories of bad experiences. If you look at these enough, you start to see that it's usually the exact same story being trotted out again and again, magnifying the small issue that there was into something that can seem rampant. So, even if you get one person who physically broke their chip because they didn't have the right tools (I've seen this done with PGA chips before!), that same story will show up everywhere because everyone likes to propagate tales of woe. Given the smaller market and the higher risk involved, I'm not sure I'd bother either.

30 November 2015, 18:17	#64
eXeler0 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 2,946	It will be interesting to see what happens once (if) Vampire 1200 hits the market. It will severely shift the CPU/$ value compared to anything icomp has to offer...

30 November 2015, 20:32	#66
spudje Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,406	Please explain to me why it still is such a challenge to get an FPGA based board? These CPUs are used in more than used Amigas. They can be emulated in software. So I would expect it the instruction set can be re-translated into VHDL or whathever you need to design a FPGA image??? To me, just implementing the CPU in a FPGA seems a lot easier than a whole amiga in the case of a MiniMig/Mist/Arcade.

30 November 2015, 21:20	#67
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	So how does mounting of the FPU and chrystal socket work, soldering and void warranty required, or not?

01 December 2015, 01:43	#68
Marmes Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Portugal Posts: 105	I don't think there are many amiga accelerators that memory goes beyond 80 Mhz. These boards can have memory speeds above 100 Mhz, making it as fast as a PC100 memory from those times. Does it compensate to have a 030 wich equals to a 386, going with prices as high as it's asked. Unfortunatly not for my wallet, but you have a unique technology on amiga if you get one.

01 December 2015, 18:20	#70
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	OK, fair enough, I am better off with my old Blizzard then.

02 December 2015, 11:47	#73
locksmith Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: south east Posts: 112	hello I have a blizzard 1230 Iv its not working for some reason just wanted to know how much I would get for it as I hate looking at it love to get it repaired but it may be better to buy a cheap low end one but I love my blizzard maybe why im still looking at it lol

02 December 2015, 22:18	#76
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,915	What's too expensive for a 040 or 060 chip today? I've seen plenty of 040's for $20-$30 and 060's in the $100-$160 range. I get that releasing a board with no CPU makes it hard to warranty but that should be stated that there is no warranty for untested CPUs. Keep the costs down and there will be plenty of us that will buy such a board. Just my take. All for an 040/060 that is sold with chips too. Hopefully one day.

02 December 2015, 23:33	#80
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	You're the one badgering a person with questions that he answered for you already, not me, so chilling is in place for yourself.

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