Periodic "stuttering" and large CPU usage

mark_k · 28 August 2016, 20:18

I was going to post this in the 3.4 beta thread but then noticed it happens with 3.3.0 too... I suppose this could be graphics driver or OS bug.

Dell D830, Nvidia Quadro NVS135M driver 341.96, Windows 10 1511 x86-64. Windows desktop 1920x1200 50Hz.

A500-like cycle-exact config, just sitting at the insert Workbench screen.

Line mode set to double, fields+ because that shows up any timing glitches very clearly.

D3D, no buffering or triple buffering, no vsync: initially CPU% ~20 with FPS ~49.8. But after a few seconds, goes to CPU% 100%, FPS dips to about 27. When that happens, the display seems to only/mostly show odd fields (or only even). Then it returns to the normal CPU and FPS again for a while.

There doesn't seem to be anything relevant in the log.

The problem doesn't seem to occur when line mode is set to Double. In fact it only seems to happen with Double, fields+ line mode.

Toni Wilen · 28 August 2016, 20:40

Power saving getting confused or some kind of CPU throttling?

mark_k · 28 August 2016, 22:21

I don't know, it's strange. Only happens with double, fields+ line mode. Happens with Windows power mode set to either balanced or high performance.

Looking at the actual CPU usage (as shown in Task Manager), when the WinUAE CPU% rises and FPS falls, actual CPU usage falls.

I see a similar periodical effect in Wine, at least in terms of WinUAE CPU%. Hopefully I'll post a screenshot showing Task Manager CPU history tomorrow.

mark_k · 29 August 2016, 21:25

This screenshot shows the Windows Task Manager CPU usage as WinUAE runs. The dips pointed out with arrows correspond to the WinUAE CPU% going up (and FPS going down) periodically.

Can anyone duplicate this?

mark_k · 29 August 2016, 21:54

And this is a screenshot on Linux/Wine. Here when the CPU usage shown in the graph jumps, the WinUAE CPU% indicator jumps & FPS falls.

mark_k · 04 September 2016, 22:32

The strange thing is, I can have the system sitting at the insert Workbench screen and see the CPU usage (and FPS) cycling up/down. If I then insert a disk (some demo) and it boots, FPS and CPU% return to stability almost immediately once the demo starts.

Could there be some issue with WinUAE when the CPU is idle? (I guess Exec issues STOP instructions then?)

Toni Wilen · 05 September 2016, 09:55

Does 3.3 and 3.4 work exactly the same? If yes, it can't be CPU idle because 3.4 works totally differently in CPU idle mode. (3.4 = count number of stopped state scanlines, if enough during last 1s -> idle mode)

mark_k · 11 September 2016, 19:40

I was using a cycle-exact config so maybe it's nothing to do with CPU idle. I also tested some older WinUAE versions and they all show this issue back to 2.8.1 (which was the first with the "double, fields+" non-interlaced line mode).

I did some more testing today, and noticed that the problem also occurs with scanlines line mode! Here are some screenshots.

The problem happens on the insert Workbench screen, but not when the CLI window is showing. It still happened with Windows set to powersave as opposed to high performance.

You definitely can't reproduce this behaviour?

mark_k · 11 September 2016, 21:14

Since the problem happens with scanlines line mode too, I tested some older WinUAE versions. Problem is present with 2.1.0, not present with 2.0.1.

Are the 2.1.0 betas still online? I was going to test some of those but (for example) http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_2100b13.zip is no longer there.

prowler · 11 September 2016, 21:20

There was a set of 2.0.2 betas (1-12) as well as 2.1.0 betas (13-25).

I can supply them for test purposes if required.

mark_k · 11 September 2016, 21:41

Sure, if you could upload them to The Zone or elsewhere that would be good.

mark_k · 12 September 2016, 22:13

An update on this...

It seems the stuttering is caused by GPU throttling. I'm not sure why it's throttling though. Look at the two attached pics. According to CPUID HWMonitor there are two GPU temperature monitors, both labelled TMPIN0. The lower one moves between ~70℃ when unthrottled and ~96℃ when throttled.

Strangely, the displayed temp jumps from ~70℃ immediately to ~96℃ then after a few seconds straight back down again. Which surely can't be right, since the system fan just stays on constantly (not at full speed either).

Anyway, it's still a bit of a mystery why this issue only happens:
(a) When line mode is Scanlines or Double, fields+. (Not with Single, Double, or Double, fields.)
(b) At the insert Workbench screen. It doesn't happen when CLI window is showing or (as far as I can tell) in most other cases like when a demo is running.

Is there some optimisation or difference in behaviour of those two line modes compared to the others? And what could have changed between WinUAE 2.0.1 and 2.1.0 to produce this strange problem?

prowler · 12 September 2016, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

Sure, if you could upload them to The Zone or elsewhere that would be good.

I shall upload the entire set for you tomorrow.

I have them on an old hard drive and I have been too busy to retrieve them today.

mark_k · 12 September 2016, 23:32

I repeated the tests using a patched version of Kickstart 1.2 which always forces interlace mode. With that, I saw periodic throttling with double, fields+ (interlaced) line mode at the insert Workbench screen, no throttling when idling at CLI (e.g. after booting a disk with no startup-sequence). And no throttling with any other line mode.

[If anyone cares about the details of the force-interlace Kickstart patch I can give some details.]

Toni Wilen · 13 September 2016, 11:43

Driver optimizations (and bugs) can be mysterious. It probably triggers some (mis)optimization in texture handling or something.

prowler · 14 September 2016, 00:10

I have uploaded the WinUAE 2.0.2 and 2.1.0 Betas to help with debugging this issue.

29 August 2016, 21:25	#4
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	This screenshot shows the Windows Task Manager CPU usage as WinUAE runs. The dips pointed out with arrows correspond to the WinUAE CPU% going up (and FPS going down) periodically. Can anyone duplicate this? Attached Thumbnails

29 August 2016, 21:54	#5
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	And this is a screenshot on Linux/Wine. Here when the CPU usage shown in the graph jumps, the WinUAE CPU% indicator jumps & FPS falls. Attached Thumbnails

11 September 2016, 19:40	#8
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	I was using a cycle-exact config so maybe it's nothing to do with CPU idle. I also tested some older WinUAE versions and they all show this issue back to 2.8.1 (which was the first with the "double, fields+" non-interlaced line mode). I did some more testing today, and noticed that the problem also occurs with scanlines line mode! Here are some screenshots. The problem happens on the insert Workbench screen, but not when the CLI window is showing. It still happened with Windows set to powersave as opposed to high performance. You definitely can't reproduce this behaviour? Attached Thumbnails

12 September 2016, 22:13	#12
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	An update on this... It seems the stuttering is caused by GPU throttling. I'm not sure why it's throttling though. Look at the two attached pics. According to CPUID HWMonitor there are two GPU temperature monitors, both labelled TMPIN0. The lower one moves between ~70℃ when unthrottled and ~96℃ when throttled. Strangely, the displayed temp jumps from ~70℃ immediately to ~96℃ then after a few seconds straight back down again. Which surely can't be right, since the system fan just stays on constantly (not at full speed either). Anyway, it's still a bit of a mystery why this issue only happens: (a) When line mode is Scanlines or Double, fields+. (Not with Single, Double, or Double, fields.) (b) At the insert Workbench screen. It doesn't happen when CLI window is showing or (as far as I can tell) in most other cases like when a demo is running. Is there some optimisation or difference in behaviour of those two line modes compared to the others? And what could have changed between WinUAE 2.0.1 and 2.1.0 to produce this strange problem? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mark_k; 12 September 2016 at 23:34.

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28 August 2016, 20:40	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,503	Power saving getting confused or some kind of CPU throttling?

28 August 2016, 22:21	#3
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	I don't know, it's strange. Only happens with double, fields+ line mode. Happens with Windows power mode set to either balanced or high performance. Looking at the actual CPU usage (as shown in Task Manager), when the WinUAE CPU% rises and FPS falls, actual CPU usage falls. I see a similar periodical effect in Wine, at least in terms of WinUAE CPU%. Hopefully I'll post a screenshot showing Task Manager CPU history tomorrow.

04 September 2016, 22:32	#6
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	The strange thing is, I can have the system sitting at the insert Workbench screen and see the CPU usage (and FPS) cycling up/down. If I then insert a disk (some demo) and it boots, FPS and CPU% return to stability almost immediately once the demo starts. Could there be some issue with WinUAE when the CPU is idle? (I guess Exec issues STOP instructions then?)

05 September 2016, 09:55	#7
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,503	Does 3.3 and 3.4 work exactly the same? If yes, it can't be CPU idle because 3.4 works totally differently in CPU idle mode. (3.4 = count number of stopped state scanlines, if enough during last 1s -> idle mode)

11 September 2016, 21:14	#9
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Since the problem happens with scanlines line mode too, I tested some older WinUAE versions. Problem is present with 2.1.0, not present with 2.0.1. Are the 2.1.0 betas still online? I was going to test some of those but (for example) http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_2100b13.zip is no longer there.

11 September 2016, 21:20	#10
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	There was a set of 2.0.2 betas (1-12) as well as 2.1.0 betas (13-25). I can supply them for test purposes if required.

11 September 2016, 21:41	#11
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Sure, if you could upload them to The Zone or elsewhere that would be good.

12 September 2016, 23:32	#14
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	I repeated the tests using a patched version of Kickstart 1.2 which always forces interlace mode. With that, I saw periodic throttling with double, fields+ (interlaced) line mode at the insert Workbench screen, no throttling when idling at CLI (e.g. after booting a disk with no startup-sequence). And no throttling with any other line mode. [If anyone cares about the details of the force-interlace Kickstart patch I can give some details.]

13 September 2016, 11:43	#15
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,503	Driver optimizations (and bugs) can be mysterious. It probably triggers some (mis)optimization in texture handling or something.

14 September 2016, 00:10	#16
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	I have uploaded the WinUAE 2.0.2 and 2.1.0 Betas to help with debugging this issue.

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