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Old 18 December 2019, 17:44   #3541
kgc210
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Image 971 shows PCIInfo without loading InitPPC
Image 973 shows PCIInfo after loading InitPPC
Image 974 Shows MuScan

If I try and run getinfo after InitPPC nothing happens.

After InitPPC WB indicates about 320MB compared to 192MB

I am running a WarpEngine with 128MB Ram and an 060 @ 80mhz

Edit:

Image 976 shows the extra Ram allocated to WB
Image 978 after a bit the display starts to go corrupt and WB crashes into an error
Image 980 shows error message Error: 8000 0004 Task: 088B7D70
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Last edited by kgc210; 18 December 2019 at 18:00.
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Old 18 December 2019, 18:22   #3542
Hedeon
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Anything in ENVARC:sonnet?
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Old 18 December 2019, 18:24   #3543
kgc210
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Harrier256MB = 0
Debug = 3

Where does Debug output to?

Jumper on pin 11/12 of J2
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Old 18 December 2019, 18:36   #3544
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I think I made an error. It should work when you remove everything from ENVARC:sonnet

Edit: nvm. I don't know atm

Looking at the source after adding the memory a lot more stuff has to happen (in 68K)

Set up the powerpc library base
Set up the powerpc library vector table.
Set up the fake warp.library
Add the various patches to the system
Start the 68k control process
Start the 68k interrupt
Patch the ramib stack
Start the PPC interrupt

As gurus tell almost next to nothing, I cannot tell where the problem lies. I always recommend running COP on the background for debugging. The library just recently went from alpha to beta.

I guess I could add serial output messages.
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Old 18 December 2019, 23:29   #3545
trixster
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A couple of Apocalypse benchmarks (G4 450Mhz)

Hyperion Quake2, ahi sound, software rendering, timedemo demo1.dm2
640x480 8bit - 22.6fps
1024x768 - 11.7fps

Compared to Ragnarok (G3 900mhz) same settings:
640x480 - 30.3fps
1024x768 - 15.7fps

So Apocalypse is 75% of the speed even though it is half the MHz.
—————-

VoxelSpace fullscreen 1280x1024, default settings

Ragnarok 900mhz - 8.4fps
Apocalypse 450Mhz - 8.2fps

Voxelspace fullscreen 640x480, default

Ragnarok - 29.4fps
Apocalypse - 28.4fps

Apocalypse is 97.5% as fast as the Ragnarok here

Last edited by trixster; 19 December 2019 at 00:26.
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Old 18 December 2019, 23:33   #3546
kgc210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
A couple of Apocalypse benchmarks
That's it, rub it in your Apocalypse works

I do often wonder how much Warp 3D is holding performance back though, esp on 68K ports. ( Yes I know you are using Software, just Saying Warp3D in general )

Why the owners can't just release the code, or back port WB 4 Radeon stuff...
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Old 18 December 2019, 23:40   #3547
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Voodoo is definitely holding these cards back in warp3d..
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Old 19 December 2019, 00:38   #3548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amigoun View Post
I can confirm Apocalypse working stable if plugged in correct order.
In A4000 I have
4) empty
3) radeon
2) Apocalypse
1) empty
0) logic board

Working right from the start, no warmup time.
Although I expected the speed to be faster (when I compare to old sonnet 400/512 in emulators like SNES looks to me Apocalypse being even slower). Time to do more benchmarks.
Finally working config! This order finally make Apocalypse card stable

Fast comparison (Ragnarok vs Apocalypse):

Quake SW 320x200: 102 fps vs 89 fps

UltimatePPC bench (lower = better):
50M Add: 34 vs 66
50M Multiply: 44 vs 82
20M Sqrt: 168 vs 261
20M Rnd: 166 vs 300
20M Sin: 136 vs 218
20M Log: 149 vs 229
50M Bounds: 44 vs 83
10M Pow: 108 vs 165
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Old 19 December 2019, 04:46   #3549
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Voodoo is definitely holding these cards back in warp3d..
If you look at Mac G3/G4 benchmarks we can see that at 640x480 even the Sonnet compares pretty well with the same PPC speed, of course this goes all out the window if you increase the resolution past 640x480 or dare to use 32 bit mode.

If you look at my Dosbox thread, the Apocalypse works quite well there as well. Where something might run at 12000 cycles without sound skipping on the Ragnarok, the Apocalypse can run at say 9000 cycles.

There is also a turbo mem option for the Apocalypse, which is basically the same as the Ragnarok.

Regarding WarpSNES and to a lesser extent Amigenerator, there seems to be an issue with the Ragnarok and Apocalypse that it looks like it's running at a lower framerate than the counter would have you believe. These programs really need an update.

Last edited by grelbfarlk; 19 December 2019 at 04:57.
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Old 19 December 2019, 11:06   #3550
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Since I don't think I'll ever get a reply from Elbox, is there any debug stuff I can enable on my Killer M1 to try to understand what is going wrong?

I'm having similar symptoms to what kgc210 is seeing.

Should I install the COP debugger?
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Old 19 December 2019, 14:10   #3551
Hedeon
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I'll try to add some more debugging info to the library coming weekend. Regarding the current debug option, that is ppc functions only, so not kernel or start up
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Old 20 December 2019, 05:38   #3552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbenam View Post
Since I don't think I'll ever get a reply from Elbox, is there any debug stuff I can enable on my Killer M1 to try to understand what is going wrong?

I'm having similar symptoms to what kgc210 is seeing.

Should I install the COP debugger?

What I found with the K1 was that it did not like to be the last card in the slot and seemed like Apocalypse to need another board to "terminate" the PCI bus. Not all cards are good for this. I'd uneducatedly suggest you try the following order:
4) NIC, SCSI, Sound
3) Killer M1
2) Voodoo 2000 SGRAM
1) <something or nothing>
0) Mediator Bridge


Or have you tried that with no success?


The GFX trashing is pretty concerning, what you could try is underclocking your Voodoo a little bit, maybe to 110MHz or less?


Something I found when I was having a flaky system was InitPPC'ing twice. Sometimes I'd see after a brief wait "PPC is not responding", run it again and it's up. This shouldn't happen but many times it was a sign that the system had not finished warming up or some other transient issue.
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Old 20 December 2019, 07:33   #3553
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Somebody tried Apocalypse in Mediator 1200TX yet?
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Old 20 December 2019, 18:31   #3554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k0x View Post
Somebody tried Apocalypse in Mediator 1200TX yet?


Send me one and I’ll try it for you haha
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Old 20 December 2019, 18:53   #3555
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If you have a Ramix handy I have a spare board I can send you
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Old 20 December 2019, 18:57   #3556
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Sonnet 7200 PCI programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
If you have a Ramix handy I have a spare board I can send you


Is that the PCI PMC Carrier board? If it is sadly no I don’t have one, well not a ramix anyway

I do have this but don’t think it will be compatible due to no fan and missing a socket.

Here is a link to what I have.
https://www.acromag.com/shop/embedde...-carrier-card/

Last edited by Timtheloon; 20 December 2019 at 19:20.
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Old 21 December 2019, 00:02   #3557
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timtheloon View Post
Is that the PCI PMC Carrier board? If it is sadly no I don’t have one, well not a ramix anyway

I do have this but don’t think it will be compatible due to no fan and missing a socket.

Here is a link to what I have.
https://www.acromag.com/shop/embedde...-carrier-card/

That may work, I think the 1200TX has 3.3V support, so that part of the Ramix is not needed. Depending on which PPC board he's talking about it may work if it physically fits.
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Old 21 December 2019, 00:05   #3558
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Sonnet 7200 PCI programming

Yes the 1200TX has 3.3v supports
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Old 21 December 2019, 00:36   #3559
jbenam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
What I found with the K1 was that it did not like to be the last card in the slot and seemed like Apocalypse to need another board to "terminate" the PCI bus. Not all cards are good for this. I'd uneducatedly suggest you try the following order:
4) NIC, SCSI, Sound
3) Killer M1
2) Voodoo 2000 SGRAM
1) <something or nothing>
0) Mediator Bridge


Or have you tried that with no success?


The GFX trashing is pretty concerning, what you could try is underclocking your Voodoo a little bit, maybe to 110MHz or less?


Something I found when I was having a flaky system was InitPPC'ing twice. Sometimes I'd see after a brief wait "PPC is not responding", run it again and it's up. This shouldn't happen but many times it was a sign that the system had not finished warming up or some other transient issue.
Good catch on the underclocking. Lowering the Voodoo to 110MHz now allows me to finally use VoodooMemOS.

Sadly, still no go, even with a card terminating the bus.

Either freezing or ramlib error. Back to square one

On the other hand, my Mediator just stopped appearing after a warm reboot - which is something that usually didn't happen.

About InitPPC'ing twice, the same thing happens when I just have the card in slot 2. ramlib error, the memory gets added while the system ultimately freezes.
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Old 21 December 2019, 00:47   #3560
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timtheloon View Post
Yes the 1200TX has 3.3v supports
Yeah so other PMC adapters work other than the Ramix. The Ramix is just preferred. I have one PMC adapter that has a large tantalum cap where the 4th PMC connector would be that physically prevents a PMC board with four connectors from being installed. *Edit* I missed that Trixster and you were talking about the Apocalypse, still it may yet work on that PMC adapter. Rapture would fit it no problem, but cooling might be an issue not insurmountable though.



@jbenam if underclocking the Voodoo actually changed something you have problems elsewhere. As always I suspect power issues. I have one Voodoo 3-2000 when installed in a PowerMac 7200 goes into heat death mode, like you can smell the VRM heating up the board, case, smells like burning. But install it in a dodgy A4000 with an original PSU, and it's warm but not really that warm.

Last edited by grelbfarlk; 21 December 2019 at 04:29.
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