01 April 2017, 23:51 | #1 |
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SCSI2SD v6 on A2000 GVP Combo 030 25Mhz
I had a lot of trouble piecing all of the information I needed together, so I want to summarize everything here for others.
My A2000: Rev 6 Motherboard Termination: Note: Do not mix Active and Passive termination, it won't harm anything but it will cause many errors. Also, Active is better than passive if you are deciding between the 2. The SCSI2SD V6 has Active termination with termination power.
SCSI configuration that worked:
Configuration of SCSI2SD V2:Crude diagram : Important Notes:General:
Devices: These settings are mostly preferences. I saw many times to avoid making the boot drive larger than 2GB. Under "SD card start sector" ALWAYS enable the "Auto" feature. Sector Size should remain 512B What is my setup? DH0 = 2GB (Workbench) Last edited by Irl; 17 June 2018 at 20:32. Reason: Forgot the X-Surf 100 in hardware; 2nd edit: Adding suggestions from mark_k, 3rd Edit: Clarifying the termination. |
02 April 2017, 04:04 | #2 |
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SCSI2SD v6 answers
See thread below for my (similar) discoveries with the v6. I too found that keeping the drives at 3gb on a 16GB card avoided the dreaded "last drive" problem with HDTools.
I have just now tinkering with my GVP combo 030 rev4 and will see how that works out. Already, just plugging it in and leaving the A2091 as the HD controller with half (8MB) of the GVP combo RAM mapped into the ZII address space and the A2091 RAM jumpered to zero MB (off), I am just shy of 3 MB/sec transfer. Not sure how much of a boost tying the v6 directly to the accelerator SCSI port will provide above that. Mac http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php...V6-board/page3 Last edited by wmaciv; 02 April 2017 at 04:10. |
02 April 2017, 14:11 | #3 | |
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Could "respond to short selection pulses" being OFF improve compatibility with different terminators etc.? Regarding drive capacity, instead of guessing at the exact drive size, use a program like SCSIUtil or SCSIQuery to tell you the exact number of sectors. Then you can ensure the fake geometry which HDToolBox uses covers the entire drive and no more. |
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03 April 2017, 00:05 | #4 |
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New Firmware 6.1
Okay, just updated to 6.1 firmware; no issues updating, but lost significant speed on the A2091/GuruROM setup. Went from almost 2.95 MB/sec to 2.35. Not sure what happened, but probably going back to 6.0.13 for the time being. |
04 April 2017, 02:32 | #5 |
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This is covered in my other thread, but since you guys seem to know what you're doing - I'm encountering wildly different drive sized between the utility and the Amiga, there seems to be a vague correspondence between the number of cylinders my HD prep utility sees and the size of the drive, but nothing like what what I've configured on the PC (eg: 4gb = 124mb).
Is there somewhere I can read-up on cylinders, sectors, etc. and how they are interpreted by the Amiga (or the SD card adapter?)? Sorry if these are stupid questions, sometimes I think I'm the only person on this forum without a degree in electrical engineering... |
04 April 2017, 02:41 | #6 | |
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The size issue seemed to be reflected in the SCSI2SD utility. It appeared that the utility is measuring the size in powers of 2 whereas the SD is labeled as 16GB calculated in powers of 10. So, If I tried to use more than 16,000,000,000 bytes on the card, the last "drive" would not be usable. And to the scsi2sd utility in windows, 16GiB would be 17179869184 bytes. This is a common issue on modern systems and is why formatting a 250GB drive results in ~232GiB partition. Last edited by Irl; 04 April 2017 at 02:50. |
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04 April 2017, 03:37 | #7 | |
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This Wiki article does a decent job explaining how they work on real disks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector (Excerpt: (512 bytes/sector)×(63 sectors/track)×(255 heads (tracks/cylinder))×(1024 cylinders)=8032.5 MiB) Where the SCSI2SD is concerned, these values are whatever is acceptable by the host (Amiga) and will add up to the total size of the drive. Keep the bytes per sector at 512. This calculator might help: http://www.csgnetwork.com/mediasizecalc.html |
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04 April 2017, 03:43 | #8 |
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04 April 2017, 03:47 | #9 | |
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Unfortunately the SCSI on the GVP Combo 030, 040 cards is pretty slow. On a good day they'll hit 2MB/s. |
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04 April 2017, 18:16 | #10 |
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Apparently so. But they can DMA to the on-board 32-bit RAM (which you can configure to sit outside the lower 16MB address space), so it's still worth using it in preference to a Zorro II controller in that case.
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04 April 2017, 18:48 | #11 | |
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The actual physical layout of cylinders, sectors and number of heads of the drive isn't visible to the computer. But as a kind of historical artifact, when specifying partitions using a mount file (or in the disk RDB area) the Amiga needs (fake/arbitrary) geometry values. The fake geometry values have to satify this: (number of cylinders) × (number of tracks) × (sectors per track) <= total number of sectors HD prep software should choose roughly-good-enough fake geometry, but that may not cover the entire drive, leaving some unused sectors at the end. (With HDToolBox, clicking Read Configuration should do that.) What may be relevant to the "wildly different" drive sizes you mention, is a 4GB wraparound problem. If the prep software works with byte sizes (as opposed to number of sectors), it can get confused if the drive size if over 4GB (or even 2GB). For example, if your actual drive size is 7GB, the prep program may think that the drive size is 3GB (since the calculation "wrapped around" at the 4GB point) and generate fake geometry values accordingly. So I think it's best to manually specify the fake geometry. That way you can be sure it covers the entire drive. (As I mentioned above, use SCSIUtil or SCSIQuery to print the actual number of sectors in the drive, then you can figure out suitable values for cylinders, heads and sectors per track.) |
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05 April 2017, 01:36 | #12 |
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That's both enlightening and helpful, thanks mark_k
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05 April 2017, 16:33 | #13 |
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This is great info. I wasn't able to get >4GB drives to work at all on my A3000... regardless if the drive was at the end of the card or not. (Thread) In the end I may use a CF card solution. However, this info does give me more fodder for testing. Thanks
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06 April 2017, 01:49 | #14 | |
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I was able to setup a single 14GB SCSI2SD drive before I moved on to splitting it up. Workbench* was able to show the correct drive size in the title bar of the drawer, but HDInstTools showed the size as a negative value. I opted to split the drive into smaller chunks to avoid issues with any older applications I may use. I also have one of them formatted FAT for use with my A2286 (Still need to get an OS for it). *Workbench 3.1 using 3.x (45.064) Kickstart Last edited by Irl; 06 April 2017 at 01:56. Reason: Adding versions of ROM and WB |
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06 April 2017, 16:00 | #15 |
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A couple of items to keep in mind for the GVP controllers (and a number of others from the past era):
The FastROM (3.x/4.x) drivers will behave with up to <4GB disks. Step over the 4GB line and you will have wrap problems with the block numbers of the SCSI target. Because of the next issue, file systems, I recommend 'slicing' up any larger flash media in the PC setup tool for 2GB pieces. In any case, I recommend making the first slice, and partition, 2GB to boot from. If you have plans to use a file system that addresses beyond the classic FFS limit of 2GB, keep the actual disk 'slice' under 4GB unless you have access to GuruROM v6.11 or newer, which can go beyond the 4GB device size. This would naturally apply to the A2091 version of the GuruROM, too, or any known revisions of C= scsi.device that have been properly updated for the same reason. I defer to other experts when it comes to patching or updating a Kickstart ROM-based scsi.device driver like that. Classic FFS partitions should be kept to <2GB due to signed 32-bit integer limits in the original code. If you have an updated FFS that can handle beyond that (Read about TD_64 extensions that were proposed and implemented by 3rd parties years since). Be sure it doesn't get contaminated with an older version on a boot floppy when you make changes. In any case, don't go beyond a 4GB partition unless you also have the underlying driver able to go beyond 4GB SCSI block counts. Use of PFS or SFS, which have >2GB functionality, I will defer to other people with more experience, and their docs. I would only caution going >4GB on a controller driver that isn't able to - you are in danger of experiencing integer wrap problems if the file system requests a block over 4GB. On older GVP v1.98 FastPrep disks, there is the Expert mode of the tool that allows one to tick the Sync mode flag. There are other RDP tools that can do it too. For GuruROM, and any board that supports Sync transfers, that rdb flag is typically needed to be able to negotiate above Async SCSI. The GuruROM has a tool (similar to GVPSCSICtrl) called OmniSCSICtrl (IIRC) with an option to turn on Sync negotiation with a target manually. It would be advisable to also make sure Disconnect/Reconnect is enabled if you are using more than one device on the cable. Another item to be aware of is the disk partitioning tools are also mostly 32-bit integer-based, and going beyond 2GB or sometimes 4GB on a partition will result in wrap-around. Know the capabilities of your RDB/Partitioning tools before you go over 4GB. HDToolBox I believe has been updated to handle it in a later version. GVP FastPrep won't be good to use on partitions over 2GB. RDB Last Disk and Last LUN flags are important for some drivers. It's the flag that a driver may interpret, at boot time, whether to look further up the numeric chain for devices. Most drivers scan device ID 0, starting at LUN 0, then LUN 1, LUN 2, etc... Then on to ID1, and scan LUNs, etc, until stopping after finishing ID 6. Setting the Last Disk stops the scan at that SCSI ID. Setting the Last LUN stops the scan at that LUN. Most of the time, drives with no LUNs are actually LUN 0. Adapter boards may implement LUNs. Setting the flag is suggested in many cases to speed up boot time (time to scan the bus for drives, devices, and partitioning), but up to the driver as to how long to wait for timeout. FastROM supports the flags. GuruROM I believe ignores them (come back later with the OmniSCSICtrl tool to find/mount/modify them). Older scsi.device ROMs tended to not be willing to address any devices at addresses after encountering the flag (newer version behavior I have no experience with). I hope that helps with some understanding of what is at play. |
07 April 2017, 03:20 | #16 | |
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Most of the PFS guides I saw simply talked about setting up RDB and partitons and then casually say to format the drives without noting that pfsformat must be used. |
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07 April 2017, 06:32 | #17 |
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I just use sys:system/format with the quick option when I do a pfs3 disk. Pfsformat is handy for setting filename sizes and the sort. I usually just go for the defaults there, so the 3.1 format has served me well.
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07 April 2017, 09:53 | #18 |
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PFSformat does not have to be used; all Amiga filesystems can be formated using the standard Amiga format command (at least if you specify quick format). What PFSformat and SFSformat do is allow you to specify filesystem specific settings such as whether to have a .recycled directory and its name.
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08 April 2017, 01:10 | #19 | |
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10 April 2017, 18:10 | #20 |
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I'm going to add one more item into my GVP notes up above that I forgot to include. Always go with the full Mask value (0xFFFFFFFE), at partition prep time, as the gvpscsi or omniscsi driver knows how to handle DMA to RAM both on the GVP accelerators (and other accelerators), and Zorro II boards. To have anything less will hurt performance. The only times one may have problems is if the RAM is AddMem'd, and doesn't support DMA, and gets placed into the Zorro II RAM space. <br />
<br /> The driver (below the file system level) is the most efficient and reliable way to handle non-DMA supported memory ranges. Mask is a kludge at the file system level (if the file system supports it) that still doesn't fix non-DMA-capable RAM access during direct-SCSI communications (like when you are prepping a boot block, checking for disk changes on removables, tape drives, and possibly emulators that might have their own media layout on a target SCSI ID). |
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