14 December 2017, 10:39 | #41 | |||||||||||||
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Each 1mhz is a million cycles per second. The stock A-500/600/1000/2000 is; + (1,000,000 + 1,000,000) cycles per second faster, but, - (1,000,000 + 1,000,000 + 1,000,000) cycles per second slower than the 10mhz PC which probably achieves ~15 frames per second at full screen size which is the bare minimum for someone to consider Wolf3D "playable". Now I don't know if the Motorola 68k can do more instructions per second than Intel's 286 or 8088 at the same mhz speed, but apparently: 10mhz 750,000 instructions per second Intel 8088 8mhz 1,400,000 instructions per second Motorola 68000 12mhz 1,280,000 instructions per second Intel 286 12.5mhz 2,188,000 instructions per second Motorla 68000 I don't know if those figures are accurate (I don't even know where they came from). I'd take it with a grain of salt. Quote:
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As for Mode 7 "like", I'm not sure what you mean. SNES was released in 1990 and I don't recall any Amiga game being able to rotate and scale a single large image quite so fast as the SNES could. It's kinda depressing to keep comparing Commodore-Amiga to systems that were released years later. It might have been ahead of its time, but it wasn't future-proof. Quote:
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Would be worth running a test to see if Binary Space Partitioning is less demanding on the CPU than Raycasting for a simple 2.5D game. Quote:
That can't be true. |
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14 December 2017, 12:20 | #42 | |
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B) Most games programmers are polymaths, we can do a bit of everything because we _have_ to Is this the Wolf3D Mac source code people were talking about using a as a base? https://github.com/Blzut3/Wolf3D-Mac |
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14 December 2017, 12:28 | #43 |
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Why should a game such as Stunt Car Racer use chunky to planar? Doesn't make sense at all and almost all of the A500 3d games use the same technique, i.e. blitter to draw and fill polygons.
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14 December 2017, 12:30 | #44 |
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That's the point he was making - it's using the Amiga's capabilities, rather than with texture mapping where you're replacing missing capabilities with CPU-bound software rendering routines, and thus slowing to a crawl.
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14 December 2017, 12:33 | #45 |
move.l #$c0ff33,throat
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That implies fast texture mapping is not possible on A500 which is not true either!
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14 December 2017, 12:54 | #46 |
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Indeed, but it's a hell of a lot slower than flat polygons, and given the lack of chunky graphics modes, is a much bigger ask of the machine than it would otherwise be.
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14 December 2017, 13:55 | #47 |
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Instructions in theory
8088@4.77 357.000 68000@7.14 1.249.000 68020@14.28 4.326.000 286@12 1.284.000 386@16 2.150.000 |
14 December 2017, 16:58 | #48 | |
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IOW it's hard to directly compare without having two routines doing the same thing. |
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14 December 2017, 17:22 | #49 |
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14 December 2017, 18:39 | #50 |
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Don't be such a loser and asshole Akira. Convert the graphics yourself if you're so damn good?
OP specifically asked for a civilized discussion from people who were interested in the topic, and since you joined you've done nothing but show your usual bully attitude and try to shoot down OP's ideas and motivations. |
14 December 2017, 18:53 | #51 |
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14 December 2017, 18:55 | #52 | |
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The OP has clearly been criticized for not having a single idea and to motivate nothing in anyone, and not just by me. As usual you take the side of anyone I criticize or joke with just to antagonize me, because I see you only mentioning me, not anyone else, just because I made a joke. It's your favorite hobby. I wish you had a real hobby. |
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14 December 2017, 18:59 | #53 |
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14 December 2017, 19:16 | #54 |
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It's not about the graphics, it's about how people join not to contribute or discuss, but to bully and shoot the thread down. It makes people wary of starting new discussions and sharing ideas, and only serves to quiet down the forum.
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14 December 2017, 19:23 | #55 | ||
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EDIT: I mean, in the thread the OP hasn't given any concrete ideas on how to move forward, but rather given demands and "wish lists" that have no basis in reality, and won't acknowledge facts when told. And this will only serve the opposite of what OP is hoping for, that is, discourage people with the required skills from actually helping the OP. Last edited by britelite; 14 December 2017 at 19:30. |
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14 December 2017, 19:34 | #56 |
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Bottom line: if you want to see Wolf 3D on the A500:
DO actually present something you've done yourself and ask for help, or have some other REAL suggestions for cool optimizing tricks that someone might want to try out. DON'T rant on about how awesome the A500 is and how it should be capable of fullscreen 1x1 wolf3d in full framerate with thousands for colors, if you have no way of backing up your claims. You will only be disappointed as that's something that no-one will be able to achieve. |
15 December 2017, 03:14 | #57 | ||||||
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Here's some notes from the person that ported Wolf3D to 8088:
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Does the blitter care how many or how complicated polygons are? Would superimposing unfilled polygons onto doors and walls for detail still be faster than texture mapping on the A500? |
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15 December 2017, 07:49 | #58 | ||||
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15 December 2017, 10:20 | #59 |
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Flat-shaded and unfilled (wireframe) for both PAL and NTSC. Something that fills the screen so that anything missing in the bottom right corner makes it easy to tell if the A500 can't reach a certain number before the next frame. Rows of "right angle" triangles forming squares that fill up the screen, with an equal amount in each row.
Erm, disregard that - that is far too percise. 1 second = 1,000 milliseconds. 50FPS PAL 1 frame every 20 milliseconds (1/50th of a second). 60FPS NTSC 1 frame every 16.6-recuring milliseconds (1/60th of a second). 30FPS Acceptable 1 frame every 33.3-recuring milliseconds (1/30th of a second). 15FPS Playable 1 frame every 66.6-recuring milliseconds (1/15th of a second). Polygon Budget: If we know how many polygons can be drawn per frame (or in milliseconds), and know how much time is left remaining after the minimum amount of game logic is computed, then we'll have our polygon budget. Let's say to maintain a respectable 30 frames per second, in each frame the A500 has only 33.3 milliseconds to compute the game and draw to screen. After the game logic is computed for that frame, whatever time is left over during that 33.3 milliseconds will be how many polygons the A500 might be able to draw/render. All that matters right now is what the Motorola 68000 needs to do at a minimum every frame. If it needs at least 70 milliseconds before the next frame, the battle is already lost. Last edited by LongLifeA1200; 15 December 2017 at 10:48. |
15 December 2017, 10:59 | #60 |
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Have a look at polygon based 3D-games on the A500, that's the approximate framerates and level of detail you'll get. A wolf3d style game with only flat walls is doable if you go with the polygon route. If you want to add a level of detail that is even remotely close to what you'll get with texture mapping, it'll crawl down to a halt.
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