Different Acard SCSI-IDE/SATA adapters

Calgor · 16 May 2007, 19:38

I know a lot of people have been getting the UltraWide SCSI-IDE Acard adapters (Acard AEC-7720UW) so they can use IDE hard drives/DVD writers.

I was wondering has anyone successfully used the Ultra LVD SCSI-IDE adapter (AEC-7722/7726Q) or the Ultra LVD SCSI-SATA adapter (AEC-7730).

Reason is I am thinking of getting a SATA version of either a hard drive or DVD writer to put onto the CSPPC UWSCSI bus.

Also, the other question has anyone successfully used a CF-IDE adapter on one of these things? (making it a SCSI-IDE-CF adapter!)

For reference, all these products can be found at www.acard.com.

Another question, from the hardware and filesystem side, is it possible to use >147GB say 300GB in this way? (Assuming I am running O/S 3.9)

AMIGAZ · 16 May 2007, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

I know a lot of people have been getting the UltraWide SCSI-IDE Acard adapters (Acard AEC-7720UW) so they can use IDE hard drives/DVD writers.

I was wondering has anyone successfully used the Ultra LVD SCSI-IDE adapter (AEC-7722/7726Q) or the Ultra LVD SCSI-SATA adapter (AEC-7730).

Reason is I am thinking of getting a SATA version of either a hard drive or DVD writer to put onto the CSPPC UWSCSI bus.

Also, the other question has anyone successfully used a CF-IDE adapter on one of these things? (making it a SCSI-IDE-CF adapter!)

For reference, all these products can be found at www.acard.com.

Another question, from the hardware and filesystem side, is it possible to use >147GB say 300GB in this way? (Assuming I am running O/S 3.9)

Have tested the 7722 with both my CSPPC and CS MKIII but I just got a non booting system

I can confirm that the 50pin SCSI---> IDE adapter works well too except with GVP SCSI controllers

keropi · 16 May 2007, 21:52

yeah, better stay away from lvd stuff, my lvd terminators did not work either...

Calgor · 17 May 2007, 06:12

Ok, so it seems it is safer to not go with the LVD SCSI stuff unless you guys don't have your scsi setup properly (unlikely I guess given how much hardware keropi seems to be stashing). Could be a bug in CSPPC or the SCSI-IDE adapter as I thought LVD stuff is supposed to be backwards compatible.

Does anyone have the answers for the other questions?

keropi · 17 May 2007, 07:37

yeah, LVD is supposed to be backwards compatible, maybe the csppc or the acard or maybe the terms where not good... but since the active 68pin terms are cheaper than lvd/se ones and they are certain to work, there is no point in experiments! lol

AMIGAZ · 17 May 2007, 08:49

Most 68pi drives I'm using are LVD U160/U320 drives and the rounded Adaptec SCSI cables I'm using are LVD U320 with LVD terminators...I guess there are bad and good LVD terminators

keropi · 17 May 2007, 09:24

maybe they work OK if all equipment is LVD... ?

AMIGAZ · 17 May 2007, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropi

maybe they work OK if all equipment is LVD... ?

Nah, for example in my A4000 in the Micronik tower I have a 50pin SCSI-2 CD-rom connected to the acard cable with a 68pin-->50pin adapter...and one of the hd's is an IDe drive with the Acard UWSCSI--->IDE adapter

Calgor · 17 May 2007, 20:42

@keropi

There are such things as LVD terminators as opposed to LVD/SE terminators (I didn't know, but so says a webpage). Since the older SCSI are almost always SE mode, you need an LVD/SE (multimode) terminator. Perhaps that was your problem.

Also, you may have needed an LVD/SE cable as well like AMIGAZ?

So does anyone know about SCSI-IDE-CF or using >300GB hard drives? Maybe I should start a new thread with that in the title.

Calgor · 22 May 2007, 11:30

I think you can use >128GB if you use a CSPPC + SCSI-IDE bridge + SFS filesystem. (or FastaATA1200 Mark III + SFS)

Has anyone used the Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE with a IDE DVD Writer with FryingPan to burn DVDRs and DVDRWs???

Calgor · 23 May 2007, 06:19

Since no one has the definitive answer, I have gone and ordered a 7720UW, 7722, and 7726Q (!).

Confirmed report of the 7726Q working on amiga.org or amigaworld.net, but it has no termination working so you need a separate active/SE mode terminator if it is on the end of the chain. This should have the advantage of (hopefully) not being limited to the 33MB/s mode compared with the UW only model according to the ACARD docs.

The 7722 is supposed to be specific for CD and DVD writers, but may only work properly with those with an ACARD SCSI card (like on PCs).

The 7726Q is supposed to be specific to hard drives.

The 7720UW is supposed to be for both hard drives and cd writers, no notes on DVD writers.

I am suspecting that DVD writing will not work without specific support from FryingPan for the adapters.

Will keep you guys posted.

BinoX · 24 May 2007, 12:23

If you get a non booting system with those drives installed, try setting that device to Asynchronos mode (Fixed a problem with a DVD drive I had on a SCSI IDE adapter)

Calgor · 03 June 2007, 18:17

Got the 3 different acard adapters, and installed the 7726Q and 7720UW on the CSPPC.

Happy to say that they both work. The 7726 seems about 1MB/s faster on average through sysinfo, but it has neither term power or termination.

With all settings to Auto on the CSPPC SCSI menu, I got about 10MB/sec with 7720UW and 11MB/sec with 7726. Finally found how to make it faster was to force Synchronous in the CSPPC menu, and leave rest to auto (forcing to 16bit slows it down to 9-10MB/sec strangely). This made it about 25MB/sec for the hard drive with 512 buffer (which should be capable of >40MB/sec according to its stats so it should not be bottleneck).

I will try SFS later I think that may speed it up somewhat(?), hopefully to >30Mb/sec.

The EIDE DVDRW worked with the 7720UW (didn't try it with others), however reading a CD it maxed out at about 2.8MB/sec. This is almost 20X in cd terms, and the drive can go to 48X, so not sure if it's the CD filesystem or something the bottleneck, will need to try different filesystem and also DVDs.

I had no problems using a LVD U320 cable with an LVD/SE terminator on one end and the 7720UW or an active terminator terminating the other end. Maybe I am lucky compared with other people. My cable length was only about 1 metre.

Strangely the chain still worked when i had no device supplying the termination power (no 7720UW, only 7726), but i think non-terminated chains can work if you only have 1 device and the scsi controller on the chain.

Did not have a long enough cable with enough connectors to test the 7722 with the DVDRW.

The A4000T crashes on cold boot with guru 80000004 if an ide and scsi device are used at same time. Other than that no problems mixing ide/scsi.

Hopefully all these details will help someone too.

EDIT: I should add that I haven't yet tried writing CDs or DVDs through these adapters.
EDIT2: I also need a better benchmarking program than sysinfo. aibb crashes on 060, i think sysspeed is one. what is the best?

AMIGAZ · 03 June 2007, 18:32

@Calgor

Cool, glad you hear your results

Don't expect any higher speeds than top 30mb/s

Have tried tons of different hd's/cables/adapters/filesystems etc etc and never got anything higher than around 29mb/s

Calgor · 03 June 2007, 18:39

@AMIGAZ

What did you need to do to get 29MB/sec? Did you use an actual scsi HD and with SFS?

The reason i also got the 7726 is because the 7720UW will max out according to its specs at the 33mb/sec mode whereas the 7726 can (possibly) go higher if it is able to use its other modes.

AMIGAZ · 03 June 2007, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

@AMIGAZ

What did you need to do to get 29MB/sec? Did you use an actual scsi HD and with SFS?

The reason i also got the 7726 is because the 7720UW will max out according to its specs at the 33mb/sec mode whereas the 7726 can (possibly) go higher.

Think I got the highest speed with my 40gig Samsung spin point together with my 7720UW, used PFS3 but I don't think the test prog I used is filesystem dependent

Calgor · 03 June 2007, 18:45

@AMIGAZ

Can you please find out the test program you used?

AMIGAZ · 03 June 2007, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

@AMIGAZ

Can you please find out the test program you used?

Diskspeed and in that archive I used scsispeed

Calgor · 08 June 2007, 16:54

On SCSISpeed (filesystem independent) I got up to 29.5MB/s (31,000,000 bytes/sec) with the 7726Q. Looks like the interface's maximum is the 33MB/s mode with the CSPPC UWSCSI controller.

A real SCSI hard drive without the SCSI-IDE bridge may be able to perform closer to 40MB/s.

zipper · 08 June 2007, 18:04

33 MB/s is probably the highest figure i ever have seen - my own best is "just" 31 MB/s.

16 May 2007, 19:38	#1
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Different Acard SCSI-IDE/SATA adapters I know a lot of people have been getting the UltraWide SCSI-IDE Acard adapters (Acard AEC-7720UW) so they can use IDE hard drives/DVD writers. I was wondering has anyone successfully used the Ultra LVD SCSI-IDE adapter (AEC-7722/7726Q) or the Ultra LVD SCSI-SATA adapter (AEC-7730). Reason is I am thinking of getting a SATA version of either a hard drive or DVD writer to put onto the CSPPC UWSCSI bus. Also, the other question has anyone successfully used a CF-IDE adapter on one of these things? (making it a SCSI-IDE-CF adapter!) For reference, all these products can be found at www.acard.com. Another question, from the hardware and filesystem side, is it possible to use >147GB say 300GB in this way? (Assuming I am running O/S 3.9)

03 June 2007, 18:17	#13
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Got the 3 different acard adapters, and installed the 7726Q and 7720UW on the CSPPC. Happy to say that they both work. The 7726 seems about 1MB/s faster on average through sysinfo, but it has neither term power or termination. With all settings to Auto on the CSPPC SCSI menu, I got about 10MB/sec with 7720UW and 11MB/sec with 7726. Finally found how to make it faster was to force Synchronous in the CSPPC menu, and leave rest to auto (forcing to 16bit slows it down to 9-10MB/sec strangely). This made it about 25MB/sec for the hard drive with 512 buffer (which should be capable of >40MB/sec according to its stats so it should not be bottleneck). I will try SFS later I think that may speed it up somewhat(?), hopefully to >30Mb/sec. The EIDE DVDRW worked with the 7720UW (didn't try it with others), however reading a CD it maxed out at about 2.8MB/sec. This is almost 20X in cd terms, and the drive can go to 48X, so not sure if it's the CD filesystem or something the bottleneck, will need to try different filesystem and also DVDs. I had no problems using a LVD U320 cable with an LVD/SE terminator on one end and the 7720UW or an active terminator terminating the other end. Maybe I am lucky compared with other people. My cable length was only about 1 metre. Strangely the chain still worked when i had no device supplying the termination power (no 7720UW, only 7726), but i think non-terminated chains can work if you only have 1 device and the scsi controller on the chain. Did not have a long enough cable with enough connectors to test the 7722 with the DVDRW. The A4000T crashes on cold boot with guru 80000004 if an ide and scsi device are used at same time. Other than that no problems mixing ide/scsi. Hopefully all these details will help someone too. EDIT: I should add that I haven't yet tried writing CDs or DVDs through these adapters. EDIT2: I also need a better benchmarking program than sysinfo. aibb crashes on 060, i think sysspeed is one. what is the best? Last edited by Calgor; 03 June 2007 at 18:24.

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16 May 2007, 21:52	#3
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	yeah, better stay away from lvd stuff, my lvd terminators did not work either...

17 May 2007, 06:12	#4
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Ok, so it seems it is safer to not go with the LVD SCSI stuff unless you guys don't have your scsi setup properly (unlikely I guess given how much hardware keropi seems to be stashing). Could be a bug in CSPPC or the SCSI-IDE adapter as I thought LVD stuff is supposed to be backwards compatible. Does anyone have the answers for the other questions?

17 May 2007, 07:37	#5
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	yeah, LVD is supposed to be backwards compatible, maybe the csppc or the acard or maybe the terms where not good... but since the active 68pin terms are cheaper than lvd/se ones and they are certain to work, there is no point in experiments! lol

17 May 2007, 08:49	#6
AMIGAZ Amiga-Mad Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,291	Most 68pi drives I'm using are LVD U160/U320 drives and the rounded Adaptec SCSI cables I'm using are LVD U320 with LVD terminators...I guess there are bad and good LVD terminators

17 May 2007, 09:24	#7
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	maybe they work OK if all equipment is LVD... ?

17 May 2007, 20:42	#9
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	@keropi There are such things as LVD terminators as opposed to LVD/SE terminators (I didn't know, but so says a webpage). Since the older SCSI are almost always SE mode, you need an LVD/SE (multimode) terminator. Perhaps that was your problem. Also, you may have needed an LVD/SE cable as well like AMIGAZ? So does anyone know about SCSI-IDE-CF or using >300GB hard drives? Maybe I should start a new thread with that in the title.

22 May 2007, 11:30	#10
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	I think you can use >128GB if you use a CSPPC + SCSI-IDE bridge + SFS filesystem. (or FastaATA1200 Mark III + SFS) Has anyone used the Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE with a IDE DVD Writer with FryingPan to burn DVDRs and DVDRWs???

23 May 2007, 06:19	#11
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Since no one has the definitive answer, I have gone and ordered a 7720UW, 7722, and 7726Q (!). Confirmed report of the 7726Q working on amiga.org or amigaworld.net, but it has no termination working so you need a separate active/SE mode terminator if it is on the end of the chain. This should have the advantage of (hopefully) not being limited to the 33MB/s mode compared with the UW only model according to the ACARD docs. The 7722 is supposed to be specific for CD and DVD writers, but may only work properly with those with an ACARD SCSI card (like on PCs). The 7726Q is supposed to be specific to hard drives. The 7720UW is supposed to be for both hard drives and cd writers, no notes on DVD writers. I am suspecting that DVD writing will not work without specific support from FryingPan for the adapters. Will keep you guys posted.

24 May 2007, 12:23	#12
BinoX Miggy Man Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom Age: 40 Posts: 831	If you get a non booting system with those drives installed, try setting that device to Asynchronos mode (Fixed a problem with a DVD drive I had on a SCSI IDE adapter)

03 June 2007, 18:32	#14
AMIGAZ Amiga-Mad Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,291	@Calgor Cool, glad you hear your results Don't expect any higher speeds than top 30mb/s Have tried tons of different hd's/cables/adapters/filesystems etc etc and never got anything higher than around 29mb/s

03 June 2007, 18:39	#15
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	@AMIGAZ What did you need to do to get 29MB/sec? Did you use an actual scsi HD and with SFS? The reason i also got the 7726 is because the 7720UW will max out according to its specs at the 33mb/sec mode whereas the 7726 can (possibly) go higher if it is able to use its other modes.

03 June 2007, 18:45	#17
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	@AMIGAZ Can you please find out the test program you used?

08 June 2007, 16:54	#19
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	On SCSISpeed (filesystem independent) I got up to 29.5MB/s (31,000,000 bytes/sec) with the 7726Q. Looks like the interface's maximum is the 33MB/s mode with the CSPPC UWSCSI controller. A real SCSI hard drive without the SCSI-IDE bridge may be able to perform closer to 40MB/s.

08 June 2007, 18:04	#20
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,838	33 MB/s is probably the highest figure i ever have seen - my own best is "just" 31 MB/s.

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