Underground Arcade

[Cammy]

Is anyone still interested? For a while there, things seemed to be looking good. Then our forum disappeared for a while, then it just went dead. Hardly anyone joins the IRC channel to chat about making games except me, Fishy, Samurai Crow and Rebel.

We haven't stopped working on stuff, but we have kind of lost organization and direction a little. We've been working hard on developing a whole bunch of characters and locations to be used in several upcoming games. They'll hopefully be characters people will love, and want to keep playing new games about them.

We also have this idea we'd like for the website. It would be the one-stop Amiga games shop. Any new games we make would be up there, and we'd try and encourage other Amiga developers to put their games up too. There would be screenshots, downloads and details on each game. And we'd like some sort of Amiga-side client to download and launch games too. I guess it would be something like a small, Amiga version of Steam or X-Box Live Arcade.

I'm not going to give up, but has anyone else?

[Graham Humphrey]

I've revived my interest in Tank Wars Deluxe, Cammy

Looks like I may finally have found someone who would give the graphics a go... early days yet but we will see what comes of it.

When I have something to report I'll probably get a thread going here to keep people up to date...

[Hungry Horace]

is there still a forum anymore? i certainly didnt know there was an IRC channel. oops.

the trouble for me is, (please dont take this the wrong way Cammy) .. talking about making games doesnt achieve much, and UA hasnt shown any real working games, even as demos, except Graham's Tank game and the demo of Halloween Nightmare made in 'Backbone'.

Whilst making new characters/locations is cool, (having seen the previous stuff, there's certainly some talented designs and graphics in UA) where are the games they will end up in?


On more of a personal note, I'm not so keen on the idea of charging for Amiga games, unless the quality is exceptionally high, however I would welcome (and actively encourage) you creating some kind of one-stop-shop for all (any?) new Amiga games & output....



I think there needs to be some coherency about the "ethos" of UA - perhaps then there would be more people involved and active. People have other things and lives that take over, (unfortunately i know that happens to me a lot) so it needs to work in a way that the people involved can drop in/out as they feel like (a hard goal to achieve i admit).


Perhaps also it is important to bear in mind that individuals dont always like having their work "branded" when they have worked long and hard on it as individuals....

Take for example;

I have just picked up working on my HGS game, (I am needing a break from game-editors) and there are still some parts (namely gfx) I will need some help with... the trouble was, I got a somewhat mute response on UA when I asked around before - that kind of thing tends to put you off asking again

Now, if i was to go back, and say Rebel helped create me some lovely cartoon splash-screens.... obviously he'd get credit in the game, but would I then be required to have a big "Underground Arcade" logo at the start of my game, or would simply having it up for download on the site be enough? It'd be very hard for me to deny ownership of something i've worked a long time on, building graphics, sound and code from scratch!

Stuff like this seems silly, but you'd be surprised how something as simple as that can put people off.


Just some thoughts and considerations for you, I hope the input is appreciated as being for the right reasons

[Cammy]

We don't want Underground Arcade to be a label, but more of a place to go to get Amiga games. There would be no need to stick any Underground Arcade logos on anything, but if someone completes a decent Amiga game, it would be nice to be able to download it from somewhere a little nicer looking than Aminet. Aminet just doesn't work that well as an Amiga games distribution service.

The website could offer free, shareware and commercial games. If a game is available free, it could still have a Donate button next to the Download button. A high quality game could have a Download Demo and Buy It Now button or something.

Once a game has been added to the site, it would stay there, so people would always be able to see what's available, and the list will grow. On Aminet, you either only see the Recent list, or you have to trawl through too much crap to find the gold, with no indication of how the games look or if they're any good before you download, install and try them. Our site would have a decent amount of information, with screenshots, video links, good descriptions and list of requirements.

Games could be downloaded in lots of different formats, including pre-configured UAE bundles for PC people, ISOs for CD32 users, ADFs, LHAs, HDFs, whatever is required to get the games working for as many people as we can.

The site could also be a central location to find out news about Amiga games, since it wouldn't be hard to keep up to date with the few things that actually happen in the Amiga games scene.

Now about the games themselves. We decided long ago not to go rushing things, because we don't want to release crappy games that no one will want to play. If someone wants a crap Amiga game, they can go to Aminet and download thousands of them. If someone wants a really good Amiga game that rivals something the consoles had at the time, there's not that much to choose from. The kind of games we want to make (myself and Rebel, at least) need to be so good, they make people wish they had an Amiga to play the game on.

We're not some 80s/90s commercial game publisher with strict deadlines forcing developers to rush out half-arsed games to sell by Christmas time. There's no need to hurry up and get something finished as soon as possible at the risk of it being half-finished crap. That's not to say that there's no place for small or simple games, those are needed too for the casual gamer. But we'd like to also try and push everyone to polish their games as much as possible before deciding that they're complete.

The problem with saying too much about the games we're working on here in a public forum is that we're paranoid about spies ripping off our ideas. Our old forum was full of them, trust me there are corporations in this world who pay kids to scour the internet trying to find ideas to steal and use. I would be mega pissed if some new Flash game came out that played exactly like how we want Halloween Nightmare to be, because that's our own creation we've been developing for years. When it's finished it could potentially be one of the best platform adventure games on the Amiga. By the way, it won't be anything like that old Backbone demo when it's finished.

We'd all love to get back to work on Tank Wars Deluxe too. We've got a new four-player adapter design ready to be manufactured as soon as we can get funding for a small production run. It'll be more advanced than any adapter before it, because it'll support a second fire button for player 3 and maybe player 4 (needs testing). I know it won't help with existing games, but it opens up options for future games. Imagine 3-player Golden Axe-style game that lets you use a second fire button for magic or jump. Regular four player adapters would need you to use a key on the keyboard for the magic, but if you have the new Underground Arcade Multitap you don't need to hit a key. It could also be used to fire a smart bomb or something.

At the moment we're trying to get a small game made and finished by the end of the month. It's a shooting game that can be used with a mouse or with a light gun. Although it'll just be a small demo at first, we hope to develop it into something like Point Blank, and eventually make a whole heap of Amiga shooting games for use with Actionware, Trojan and Sega phaser guns (and any other compatible guns we can find).

And Horace, you used to come in the IRC channel, did you forget? There were a few misunderstandings and it went quiet for a while after that.

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by Cammy

it would be nice to be able to download it from somewhere a little nicer looking than Aminet. Aminet just doesn't work that well as an Amiga games distribution service.

Agreed. but at the moment, all i'm aware of is the blog thing, which hasnt been updated in ages. It would be nice to see everything set up and ready-to-go , even if at the moment you just have previews.

The site could also be a central location to find out news about Amiga games, since it wouldn't be hard to keep up to date with the few things that actually happen in the Amiga games scene.

Thats a nice idea, and i'm sure people would use it if there was something set up with nice regular updates.

If someone wants a crap Amiga game, they can go to Aminet and download thousands of them.

that's not to say there arent any good games on there I hope?

The kind of games we want to make (myself and Rebel, at least) need to be so good, they make people wish they had an Amiga to play the game on.

you need to strive for a balance though. 0 really good games is useless. 1 or 2 games, even unfinished, or still in development, even just with demos shows people that stuff is happening. you say in your first post "Is anyone still interested?" - i'm sure they are, if they knew there was something to be interested in!

But we'd like to also try and push everyone to polish their games as much as possible before deciding that they're complete.

of course, anyone who has worked on a project likes to see things nicely polished - which is why i am very slow on releasing stuff myself. That shouldnt stop development diaries or similar being possible though.

The problem with saying too much about the games we're working on here in a public forum is that we're paranoid about spies ripping off our ideas.

then how can you ask people to be involved? it's either a private thing between 1 or 2 people, or its an open community project where anyone can be involved. I think this is probably why it's not seeing many people active, which is a real shame because the idea is a nice one.

By the way, it won't be anything like that old Backbone demo when it's finished.

out of interest, who is coding it, and in what language? perhaps a video demo would be nice to see. personally, i quite enjoy doing development videos of my projects, because it lets people see how things are progressing. You can also get some feedback as to how interested people are in the project.

And Horace, you used to come in the IRC channel, did you forget? There were a few misunderstandings and it went quiet for a while after that.

yes, i did forget, because when i've looked on IRC to see what channels you are in, i cant see on for UA! i do know the misunderstanding you are talking about, but I will generally speak my mind, and I cant really help if some individuals are a little sensitive to that - there is however, never any malice intended.


edit: i would like to know if graham is still interested on working on Serious Aliens, as i keep thinking about that project.

[Vairn]

I think Underground Arcade is one of the better ideas for the amiga community, I have something I would love too see up there one day, but with the little free time I have, and that will get alot less soon unfortunately.
As with alot of single devs, seeing a project from start to finish is alot of work, being motivated to work on it, is hard. Since there are so many distractions, Wife, and other commitments, you may get 30 mins to look at it, then wham off you go, or something distracts you.
Which makes progress slow, but It is great for the community that it is there, and when I have something to show, I want there to be somewhere to put it.

So keep up the good work Cammy, you and Rebel, I swear I know him from somewhere along time ago hmmm, are doing great! It is people like you who make us feel it is worth the while to keep going, cause we know that there will be a small group of people, who will appriciate the hard work.

[Zetr0]

There will come a time (i hope) after the LVD A608 8MB Fast Ram Project (thats whipping my ass) where I can get back into coding.

I would love to do a dungeon crawler or perhaps even something 3D / Isometric like...

some day.... and I hope I would be able to work with the RA, I dont mind an RA splash in my work, it supports and brings people together, I see the RA more of a collective resource (like a guild) rather than a company.

@Cammy

you and Rebel hold the fort and please keep up the good work... if it goe's quiet bang the drum like now.... I think it a call to Arms... make sure we dont forget that we are responsible for the *continued* existence and delight of Amiga, (and any other platform arguably) lol

I sincerely look forward to working with the RA soon =D

[NovaCoder]

I'm just about to finished my first AGA game (a port of DOTT), I'll be posting up to the beta version to the underground arcade site soon

[Hungry Horace]

i didnt even know ^^ that site. Only the blog and the old forum.

I have here a picture (large and small versions) you can use on the site i'e you'd like to put an HGS preview up. I know you had a description elsewhere, but i'd happily write a new one if needed.

[NovaCoder]

Yeah I knocked it together last year but there hasn't been any interest or much to post about so I'll prob let the domain expire this year (too much $$$).

I'd be happy to post your game up for now though (domain will expire at the end of the year).

[Hungry Horace]

actually my comment was directed at Cammy, as i didnt realise you were running the site NovaCoder!

How much does the URL cost? I would suggest asking FOL for a space on the PSPUAE servers, but sadly that seems to be down at the moment!

[Siggy999]

Haven't lost interest - but RL swallowed me up for over a year.. Change of location, job, and lifestyle, underway - and once I get settled I hope to get back to doing something with my Ami once again (of course I'll have to actually unpack it)... Real Life and paying gigs have to come first.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Cammy

I guess it would be something like a small, Amiga version of Steam or X-Box Live Arcade.

I liked this. The lady has spunk. For downloading new episodes for your J-RPG?

[mihcael]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

...
you need to strive for a balance though. 0 really good games is useless. 1 or 2 games, even unfinished, or still in development, even just with demos shows people that stuff is happening. ...

True!
So is anybody looking to make a quite ordinary game?? A Shootem-up maybe? I would like to have a go at some graphics, but i dont want to let anyone down with my poor skillz! (may sound like a joke, but im serious!)

Lots of good comments there also HH!

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Photon

[...] For downloading new episodes for your J-RPG?

That was AB Positive.

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

edit: i would like to know if graham is still interested on working on Serious Aliens, as i keep thinking about that project.

Sorry HH, I missed this bit. I haven't looked at that for yonks - I remember you sending me lots of stuff related to it a while ago. It is something I would like to do but that's a bit different to having the time and the ability to do it. It would be a bigger project than TWD that's for sure.

I would be unsure of doing it on my own... it's been a long time so forgive me if my memory of this is a little rusty, but did you want to work on the coding with me, or would that not be possible (as I gather you use AMOS and I use Blitz if I recall correctly)? It's your baby at the end of the day, but if I could find a fellow Blitz programmer I would quite like to do something like this as a joint venture which might help get it done quicker and I can then learn off another coder which would be a big help to me (and vice versa presumably).

I want to get TWD finally out of the door first though. As soon as I have some graphics it should be well on its way. Almost all I need to do coding-wise is to clear up two or three minor bugs, and bung a new front end on to it.

[Hungry Horace]

it's true, i'm not familiar with Blitz, but perhaps with a working (i.e. your) setup, and some feedback going between us, that might be fixable - it's certainly a language I would have little/no objection to trying to understand. theoretically, i could start the code in AMOS with a view to moving it across to Blitz later - i gather there must be some similarities!

It's true i have a number of ideas for the game, but i'd really like to thrash those out with a fellow developer - especially if they are going to be coding some of the game! Working out what the limitations are will certainly effect the way the game is designed. I
've always thought some kind of structured approach which can simply have level-maps / graphic sets "dropped in" would be the best way of attacking it... kind of like Cannon Fodder in that respect, but likely that would want to be mixed with the Chaos Engine type "event" triggering, and of course, with lashings of Alien Breed/Gauntlet in the overall gameplay


There is also of course i think, a need to get a graphic artist (who like the Sensible Software style) involved, but that is perhaps a consideration for once there is a working game-engine in place.

I'll let you crack on with TWD - clearly that is something you need to do, and I have HGS (and my editors) to worry about at the moment... the trouble is I keep thinking of things that make me interested in working on SA!

[NovaCoder]

You guys are as bad as me

I'm also still planning on getting back to Annihilation one day but that old enemy Time is kicking my ass

[Photon]

Originally Posted by eLowar

That was AB Positive.

E-hrm. Right you are. Still, what could be better than two girls cooperating, eh!?

Admittedly, it could turn into a catfight with mud-slinging...












...but well um, that's not half bad either IMDO.

[Hungry Horace]

I'm still interested to know what the situation is here with the website. Now i have been told the one that does exist isnt staying or isnt right? will the URL be passed on? my suggestion for a possible alternate host was dismissed (imho, for a completely wrong reason)

i would like to write a development diary or something, to be able to add regular updates, to get input and bounce some ideas around (like GH and I have above)

once again, UA seems to be on a path of self-destruction - anyone wanting to add anything to the site cant, and those that can add something, arent!

I know NovaCoder has DOTT on the way, which is great, but UA cant exist off of the back of a single forum thread (here), the ideals of a few people, and "goodwill" alone. there isnt even a place for anyone to ask anyone else for assistance...


As i said before, there's good ideas here, and some people who are obviously very keen to do something, but there's no coherency, and far too much paranoia for it to ever even get off the ground at the moment, which is a real shame.


edit:

i've just read an old post in another thread about the forum going down, then being back, but being ultra-ultra private. So private, i dont even know if it exists anymore. How can anyone be expected to join in if the doors are locked to all and sundry? I find the idea of "spies" stealing games ideas for an out-of-production machine somewhat ludicrous.

you do know its very easy to have a forum with private (developer only if you like) boards right?