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Old 06 March 2019, 10:16   #1
ku4tp
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A500 Workbench 1.3 lock up issue

I have a problem that is causing me to scratch my head quite a bit. Maybe someone here can help.

I have an A500 with an odd issue. It boots to WB just fine, but double clicking does not work - for instance, double clicking the WB icon will not open it. Also, once an icon is selected and you right click the system locks up - no mouse movement at all. I can run Advanced Amiga Analyzer and it runs fine. Mouse test is OK, memory test ran 7 times and passed, disk test passed. Looking at an old troubleshooting guide, it suggested possible causes of Dennise, Fat Agnus, CIA (odd, if memory serves) and a 7432 chip. All have been replaced to no avail. I even changed Paula as the problem is triggered by mouse clicks, albeit only in WB. Could this be a kickstart ROM issue? I hope to try and run a game of some sort today to see if there are any issues there. Once during testing I left it running and after some time it seemed to 'unlock', but selecting an icon and right clicking locked it up again.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
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Old 06 March 2019, 11:46   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4tp View Post
I have a problem that is causing me to scratch my head quite a bit. Maybe someone here can help.

I have an A500 with an odd issue. It boots to WB just fine, but double clicking does not work - for instance, double clicking the WB icon will not open it. Also, once an icon is selected and you right click the system locks up - no mouse movement at all. I can run Advanced Amiga Analyzer and it runs fine. Mouse test is OK, memory test ran 7 times and passed, disk test passed. Looking at an old troubleshooting guide, it suggested possible causes of Dennise, Fat Agnus, CIA (odd, if memory serves) and a 7432 chip. All have been replaced to no avail. I even changed Paula as the problem is triggered by mouse clicks, albeit only in WB. Could this be a kickstart ROM issue? I hope to try and run a game of some sort today to see if there are any issues there. Once during testing I left it running and after some time it seemed to 'unlock', but selecting an icon and right clicking locked it up again.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

You using HDD of Floppy? Got another Workbench floppy to try?
I would not have gone replacing random components until those basic things had been checked.
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Old 06 March 2019, 14:17   #3
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You using HDD of Floppy? Got another Workbench floppy to try?
I would not have gone replacing random components until those basic things had been checked.
Those things were checked. Three different WB disks - all 1.3 each from different sources, one of a diffrrent sub version. And I wasn't replacing random components, I was following documentation from Commodore suggesting those components might be the cause of the problem I am seeing. Except for the Paula - I admit that was a stab in the dark because the other replacements did not solve it and right clicking the mouse under the specific situation I described instgated the lockup. Hey, I took a shot...
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Old 06 March 2019, 14:29   #4
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You using HDD of Floppy? Got another Workbench floppy to try?
I would not have gone replacing random components until those basic things had been checked.
Oh - and to complete the answer - floppy. I display my machines and don't mod them much. I want to keep them as close to stock as possible.
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Old 06 March 2019, 15:52   #5
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I recall hearing of a similiar issue when the problem was with the CIA:s. You could try and swap them around and see if the problem changes, then you know you have a problematic CIA-chip.
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Old 06 March 2019, 16:12   #6
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Somehow this sounds like it might have something to do with CIA timers not working.

Out of interest, which troubleshooting document did you look at, ku4tp? It rings a bell, but I can't remember where I read about this problem.
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Old 06 March 2019, 16:31   #7
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By the way, does it work to "click" using the keyboard? Hold down left amiga and press left alt for a left click, and right alt for a right click.
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Old 06 March 2019, 19:24   #8
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I changed the odd CIA. I could try the even, too. I have not tried the keyboard yet, but I will soonest.

There were two documents, actually. A grid listing the problem on one side and a list of possible failures across the top. I have seen these .pdfs in various places - and an old Commodore training document I got my hands on in an ebay sale. Guy's father was an authorized technician and he dumped a load of notes and manuals.

Last edited by ku4tp; 07 March 2019 at 03:11.
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Old 07 March 2019, 03:02   #9
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Clicking from the keyboard does the same thing. No double click and locks up on right click once an icon is selected.

And I just tried Arkanoid with no problem. Seems as long asI don't want to use WB I'm just fine

Last edited by ku4tp; 07 March 2019 at 03:11.
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Old 07 March 2019, 11:20   #10
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Do you have trapdoor expansion, if so, try removing it.
Last resort would be to change ROM. Your fault is just crazy.
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Old 07 March 2019, 16:58   #11
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Do you have trapdoor expansion, if so, try removing it.
Last resort would be to change ROM. Your fault is just crazy.
yeah, tell me about it!

I do have a memory / RTC expansion but removing it was one of the first things I did. I still plan to change the even CIA, but am not expecting much and I have two kickstart roms on order. A 1.2 and another 1.3.

I'll keep plugging at it. I'm open to other suggestions and I will keep this thread updated as things progress...
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Old 07 March 2019, 18:46   #12
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yeah, tell me about it!

I do have a memory / RTC expansion but removing it was one of the first things I did. I still plan to change the even CIA, but am not expecting much and I have two kickstart roms on order. A 1.2 and another 1.3.

I'll keep plugging at it. I'm open to other suggestions and I will keep this thread updated as things progress...

You could try removing rom chip and bending legs slightly to make better contact. I would also remove all socketed chips to check them aswell.
Only faults I have ever come across on A500 have dirty legs / connect issues.
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Old 08 March 2019, 00:50   #13
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Diagrom it... or use systest. It can test chip timings. I know you've already tested memory.

Not related directly but I had same issue of random hang ups on PC. Turned out to be faulty RAM despite having successfully running several memory tests without issues.

Do you have a donor board where you can swap each socketed chip in turn?
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Old 08 March 2019, 01:35   #14
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Have you tried another workbench disk? (preferrably from other source)
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:44   #15
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Have you tried another workbench disk? (preferrably from other source)
Yep, mentioned that a few pots ago. I agree, my first instinct was software. I have, on rare occasion, been able to get two or even three right clicks before it locks up. Double click has never worked. I'm planning to try freeze spray on the board to see if that can help isolate the faulty component, if there is one. Failing that I will start re-capping the board. Can't hurt, even if it doesn't help.
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:52   #16
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Diagrom it... or use systest. It can test chip timings. I know you've already tested memory.

Not related directly but I had same issue of random hang ups on PC. Turned out to be faulty RAM despite having successfully running several memory tests without issues.

Do you have a donor board where you can swap each socketed chip in turn?
I do, but not all those chips are known good. Sadly, not all of the custom chips were and the kickstart was definately bad. I also have a de-solder station so replacing unsocketed chips should not be a problem if I have to go there. Already did with that 7432, actually. I fix broken C64s for fun This is my first broken A500. And not very broken, in the big scheme of things.

I am not familiar with Digarom - is there an .adf available? ( I will check Aminet). I think I have a systest one around somewhere. If so I will give that a shot. Fortunately, I have an A1200 to generate floppies as needed.

Last edited by ku4tp; 08 March 2019 at 10:03. Reason: Add detail
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:58   #17
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www.diagrom.com - but this requires burning a physical replacement EPROM.
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Old 08 March 2019, 11:41   #18
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www.diagrom.com - but this requires burning a physical replacement EPROM.
Looks like it does not support the A500? Or am I missing something?
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Old 08 March 2019, 11:54   #19
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Hmm, where does it say that? It works with any Amiga, just needs to be programmed onto a suitable EPROM or two depending on the model. But unless you already happen have a programming device, it'd probably be easiest to have someone with the tools create a set for you. It's not a disk image but a Kickstart replacement.
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Old 08 March 2019, 14:28   #20
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Hmm, where does it say that? It works with any Amiga, just needs to be programmed onto a suitable EPROM or two depending on the model. But unless you already happen have a programming device, it'd probably be easiest to have someone with the tools create a set for you. It's not a disk image but a Kickstart replacement.
I understand it is a kickstart replacement but the link you provided listed 600,1200,3000,4000 and 1000 support, but I saw no mention of 500 or 2000. I may have missed something - it was early morning here
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