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Old 04 November 2019, 16:30   #1
iddqd
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TV-Monitors in France/Russia (and using Raspberry pi)?

Hi!

SECAM is the third encoding standard besides NTSC (North America), and PAL (Europe). SECAM was used in France, + colonies, and Soviet union / Russia.

SECAM has the same frame rate and horizontal lines as PAL.

I assume this means that:

1. French e.g. Commodore Amiga don't work on TV-monitors outside France?
2. French Monitors, e.g. 1084, don't work outside France?

The reason for me asking, is I've never heard of this problem before, just to be aware of the PAL vs. NTSC incompatibility.

Now, I got even more perplexed when thinking about popular systems like Raspberry Pi: I use a Raspberry pi (with retropie) connected to my CRT TV. It's a PAL TV, so I've set my raspberry pi composite out to send PAL (sdtv_mode=2). Now the big conundrum is: the sdtv_mode variable doesn't have SECAM, only PAL/NTSC settings! So how the heck does French and Russians use composite out on a Raspberry pi?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/document...g-txt/video.md

Please poke your French or Russian friends about this, as I'd love an answer.
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Old 04 November 2019, 16:42   #2
deimos
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My understanding is that all (most?) SECAM TVs accept PAL inputs as well, so it's PAL all the way, except for stuff being broadcast.
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Old 04 November 2019, 16:43   #3
Glen M
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Would the french monitor not be like any other monitor in so much as its built for the standard output by the machine its intended for? Its not a TV after all.

I assume the French / Russian machines with composite output are built to the SECAM standard. France and Russia aren't exactly small places so I'm sure manufacturers of hardware would want their product compatible with any countries standard.

I suppose these days though that most people will be using an LCD and most modern TVs can handle any standard thrown at them.
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Old 04 November 2019, 16:50   #4
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Well, I've noticed some nice second hand CRTs suspiciously cheap (relative) on ebay, but they're all either from France or Russia. Thus I suspect they have a limited functionality, and the same make/model from UK/US are priced higher.
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Old 04 November 2019, 16:51   #5
ross
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Being a problem only for the composite signal (and not for the RGB) I think it is a very limited.
Our French (or Russian) friends can tell us if their TVs also accept the PAL composite (recognizing the AM modulation for the chroma).
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Old 05 November 2019, 21:31   #6
iddqd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deimos View Post
My understanding is that all (most?) SECAM TVs accept PAL inputs as well, so it's PAL all the way, except for stuff being broadcast.
So one should not buy broadcast monitors or PVMs from France or Russia, as only consumer TVs are PAL compatible?
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Old 05 November 2019, 22:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iddqd View Post
So one should not buy broadcast monitors or PVMs from France or Russia, as only consumer TVs are PAL compatible?
That is not at all what I said.
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Old 06 November 2019, 02:06   #8
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Why would you buy a broadcast monitor for your Amiga only to use it with composite video to begin with?
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Old 06 November 2019, 09:22   #9
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@idrougge, well, some only have composite by default, and you need to buy a RGB card separate.
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Old 06 November 2019, 11:26   #10
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The picture is never going to get better than the signal. Composite is the worst signal there is. Its going to look like crap regardless of what monitor you have.
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Old 06 November 2019, 15:00   #11
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Exactly. A 1084 with RGB will outshine a BVM with composite in every aspect except for the sharpness of your composite artefacts.
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Old 06 November 2019, 15:31   #12
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Well, a BVM has better build quality, and are more "stackable" with their cubic casing.

Is it possible to get RGB out from a Rasberry Pi? It has component and HDMI. I assume HDMI can not easily be converted to RBG, as it's a digital signal, right?
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Old 06 November 2019, 16:51   #13
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Something like this?

I believe that is NTSC, tho...
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Old 06 November 2019, 17:24   #14
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Hummm...

French TV/Monitors are 220V/50 Hz. Display 50 Hz or 50/60Hz
NTSC TV/Monitors are 110V/60 Hz. Display 60 Hz

Many french TV ( +- post 1990) supports 50 and 60Hz display.

In very very old (1980+) TV, only secam is supported. Pal display works but in N/B. Only 50Hz supported. RGB is ok.

Last edited by Zarnal; 06 November 2019 at 17:32.
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Old 06 November 2019, 17:28   #15
iddqd
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Yeah SECAM seems very close to PAL (voltage, frame rate, horizontal lines), just very different color encoding.

I still wonder what the heck happens when you try to use composite out on a raspberry pi to a SECAM TV. Seems to be difficult to search to find answer. (Shall I assume no one has posted on this means: "it's not a problem"?)
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Old 06 November 2019, 18:24   #16
malko
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Was really young but as far as I can remember all TV here were PAL/SECAM (both).
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Old 06 November 2019, 19:07   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
Was really young but as far as I can remember all TV here were PAL/SECAM (both).
Same here. In addition, most TVs had SCART input so for the Amiga itself it didn't really matter anyway.
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Old 06 November 2019, 19:14   #18
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As already said it was only a problem for composite but generally the RGB scart (peritel) signal was used with french TV. Most french TV were PAL/SECAM anyway perhaps since 1990 or early (so can receive other programs for french people that live near frontiers)
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Old 06 November 2019, 20:00   #19
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I haven't seen SCART since I moved to states... not that I miss it...
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Old 07 November 2019, 00:33   #20
idrougge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iddqd View Post
Is it possible to get RGB out from a Rasberry Pi? It has component and HDMI. I assume HDMI can not easily be converted to RBG, as it's a digital signal, right?
There is a small RGB "hat" you can build yourself.
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