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Old 21 November 2005, 13:16   #1
Charlie
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Network woes...

I kind of hinted in another thread some problems I've been having. I'm getting nowhere so hopefully some advice?

I have:
- Netgear router with ADSL connection.
- LAN consisting of two XP-PC's directly connected to the router & two XP-laptops via wireless.
- All is functioning perfectly using Dynamic DNS provided by said router. ( Internet + peripheral + filesharing for all ) Netbios over TCP/IP is present in all.
- I haven't ( yet ) added the non-encripted passwords .reg file to the PC's as all run without passwords by turning off 'Limmit local account use of blank passwords to console logon only' in LocalSecuritySettings. ( Security is provided by the router + wireless encription + some heavy-duty software on each PC - all properly setup )

One of my PC's spends most of it's life running AOS3.9 under Amithlon. Following this very useful site ( among others ) http://samba.amigaworld.net/ I'm nearly there but.....

Internet via LAN from AOS - Yes.
I can ping any PC from AOS & visa-versa, but only with: 'ping 192.168....etc', not 'ping amiga' or 'ping charlie'.
I can even get a VNC client to function in AOS with any computer on the network running a server if I use: 192.168..etc. It won't function as a server.
SAMBA is setup as the web-site suggested. ( Not SMBFS yet )

I know that I could probably fix this by allocating fixed DNS to every computer on the network ( the 'amiga' is set to 192.168.0.154 ) but experience has taught me NOT to mess with a network that already functions.

I've not filled in the 'hosts' page in Genesis Prefs for computers other than the 'amiga' as Genesis won't seem to accept the DNS left blank. ( I won't know the numbers as they are dynamic )

Is there a way to achieve this? - I don't want to change the functioning setup of my network, 'just' add the 'amiga' to it.

If Genesis can't manage DynamicDNS & all that goes with it would MiamiDX be a better bet?

I'm hoping to get to the point where all computers are freely talking + filesharing, not just the XP-Pro Pc's.

Thanks.

Last edited by Charlie; 21 November 2005 at 15:21.
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Old 22 November 2005, 06:45   #2
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I remember having a problem with setting up networking between an Amiga, a Mac, and several PCs using hubs (no routers or switches). The solution I used was a 'software' router like Sygate. Sygate essentially could handle networking non-windows native devices with a PC Gateway. I'm foggy anymore about how it worked, but I do recall it did a marvelous job.

Unfortunately, this certainly violates your 'don't tinker with what works' ethos in this case...
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Old 22 November 2005, 07:37   #3
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@Charlie:

Are you sure that nmdb is running fine on the Amiga? If so, it should broadcast the name/ip of your Amiga to the rest of your computers provided they are on the same ip network - ie if your other computer have the adresses 192.168.0.x, 192.168.0.y and 192.168.0.z, then your Amiga need to have 192.168.0.v.

x, ,y ,z, v = different numbers between 1 and 254.


Mnemesi:

TCP/IP is not platform specific. It was actually around before the first pc, and not to mention windows.

The only need to use something like sygate would be to come around limitations in windows own tcp/ip stack.
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Old 22 November 2005, 13:07   #4
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Thanks for the replies...

@parrik:
I just checked & nmdb is in place ( status command from shell ) so I assume it's running - thanks for the suggestion.

@Mnemesi:
Yes, I don't want to fiddle with a functioning network - they usually stop when I do. If I convince myself that it's not me but limmitations of the stack(s) I'm using I'll bite the bullet & assign static ip to all the computers & keep fingers crossed.

I tried MiamiDX to see if it was Genesis that wasn't up to communicationg with my network as set up. ( it dosen't seem to accept dynamic allocation of ip to other computers by the router )
I had high hopes at first - it was merrily detecting everything, but then failed at accepting my router as a DNS server. Genesis seemed to manage that one. I have no experience with that TCP stack so I may fiddle more before giving up.

keep the suggestions comming......
thanks.
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Old 22 November 2005, 14:36   #5
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PS
My router seems to think all is well. Accessing the attached devices page from any computer inc 'amiga' reveals:
# IP Address Device Name MAC Address
1 192.168.0.2 CHARLIE 00:50:8D:..etc..
2 192.168.0.3 LAPTOP 00:50:8D:..etc..
3 192.168.0.4 NOTEBOOK 00:50:8D:..etc..
4 192.168.0.154 AMIGA 00:50:8D:..etc..

The router is communicating sucessfully with the TCP-stack on each computer.
It seems the 'amiga' is not getting this info passed back to allow communication with other computers on the network.

If I use MiamiDX the above table is the same but 'AMIGA' is replaced with 'UNKNOWN' & I have no internet connection.

It looks more & more like Genesis ( or my setup of it ) can't cope with the router dynamically assigning ip to the other computers.

Am I correct?
Does this help reveal any answer?
Am I going to have to rejig my network to use static ip? ( I don't want to )

Thanks in advance..
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Old 22 November 2005, 15:31   #6
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Just to clarify:

What happens if you go to Charlie, open a DOS window and enter ping laptop ?
What happens if you go to Charlie, open a DOS window and enter ping amiga ?
What happens if you go to Amiga, open a DOS window and enter ping charlie ?

Does the Router have a name ?

What happens if you go to Charlie, open a DOS window and enter ping router ?
What happens if you go to Amiga, open a DOS window and enter ping router ?

Does the list you quoted above refer to the SMB network or to the TCP/IP network ?

What did you enter as IP address, network mask, default gateway and DNS server in Genesis ? What are these settings on the other machines (use ipconfig command) ?
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Old 22 November 2005, 21:46   #7
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I'm nearly there!!
I've given up trying Dynamic DNS with Genesis+Router & plugged the current ip+names of my computers into Genesis Prefs/Hosts. Also made sure each XP-box uses unencrypted passwords.

- I can now ping every computer from every other using their netbois name ie 'amiga' 'charlie' etc.. via shell/dos prompt.
- VNC now works using netbios names. ( still can't use the 'amiga' as a server )
- I can now mount partitions from any XP-box using SMBFS - appearing on Workbench! Yippee!!! ( sorry getting over exited )
- The 'amiga' appears under networks on the XP-boxes as Samba 2.2.5 (Amiga), but if I try to access the 'amiga' then: "\\Amiga is not accessable...etc... The network path was not found" ........Bugger.
Genesis output says "Access from host 192.168.0.3 to port 139 denied." - or from whichever box I'm making the request.

( I've reserved the current ip addresses for each computer in my router so it allocates the same ip every time. Why? So Genesis won't get confused, but the XP-boxes need no changes to their settings - my big worry. )

To answer thomas' other questions:
The router has ip 192.168.0.1 only - no name - it replies to ping from anywhere on the network.
The list referrs to the TCP/IP network. ( off the router's own diagnostic page )

So what have I got? My 'amiga' can:
- mount partitions from my XP-boxes over the network.
- access VNC servers on the other computers. Won't work as a server.
- appear on the XP-boxes network folders BUT I can't access it. When I try Genesis console reports access as denied.

Good news so far but what's left to do? I must be close.

Thanks again for your advice.

Last edited by Charlie; 22 November 2005 at 21:54.
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Old 22 November 2005, 23:57   #8
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Quote:
"Access from host 192.168.0.3 to port 139 denied."
Check the packet filters. Genesis denies everything by default. Add a rule which allows Samba requests or delete the rule which refuses everything. Make sure that the more specific rules are above the generic ones in the list, otherwise they are ignored.
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Old 23 November 2005, 12:07   #9
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@thomas:
Once I found the file, editing it has solved my problems.
All is now functioning - you were quite right.

My thanks to you & the others who have lent advice.

Regards.
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Old 23 November 2005, 21:01   #10
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Quick PS...
Network performance to & from my 'amiga' is v poor - slow + transferrs stutter alot. Also getting a few copy errors that resolve when I click on retry. ( Packet request type unknown / Object not found )
The nature of the beast I guess. ( No such problems with other computers or the 'amiga' when in WinXP mode )

Looking for tweaks I found two suggested fixes:
1) Samba - "socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192" - added to smb.conf
This seams to help speed a bit.
2) TCP-stack - "net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0" - should cure the stuttering.
Is there a place where I can add this argument to Genesis?
( Both tips came from Linux sites )

Any illumination on 2) + any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Sorry I know I'm getting greedy now.

Thanks.

Last edited by Charlie; 23 November 2005 at 21:13.
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Old 23 November 2005, 23:04   #11
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Genesis stores all its parameters in the AmiTCP:db directory. There is one file called general.conf IIRC. That's the place I'd look first for that delayed_ack parameter. Also I'd search Aminet for Genesis or AmiTCP docs.

Forcing the network card into half-duplex mode (rather than full-duplex) might help against transmission errors, too. Check the driver's docs on how to do this.
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Old 24 November 2005, 01:51   #12
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@Charlie:

The samba package is a very clunky, big and low performing piece of software on the Amiga as you have noticed.

If you can live with the fact that you wont find a fancy icon representing your Amiga in "the network neighbourhood", you should imho ditch samba because it really doesnt give much to run the Amiga as a smb server.

The opposite of the samba package - smbfs, the smb client which lets you mount smb shares as normal volumes on your Amiga, is very small and fast.

Keep in mind that you have to think the other way when using the client:
Instead of first copying stuff you want to use to the Amiga, you instead access the stuff you have on your other computers directly. Imho a much better concept.

Ofcourse you can use them both simultaneously, but honestly the samba package doesnt add anything that justifies itself.
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Old 24 November 2005, 11:10   #13
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ahhh but my dear patrik, when you have a linux box in the house... samba is golden..

actually this is not true, samba under fedora core 3 is a pain in the arse. *ahem* suse was way more quicker... go figure... . shame i suppose...

but yes... if you already have a smb host its easy to add the clients... like a miggy. acutally miggy and linux share a whole lot of love on the network, quickly and effeciently.. even on a 10Mbit spread. i am however running an 060@66 in the miggy.

what you running in your miggy charlie?

intellegent gateways rule (especialy if you have a *testing* it for work ethos ) i'l promise to give them back thier 3com 6040 router back some day.... and should i feel flush after mortgaging some one else's house i may buy one lol.
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Old 24 November 2005, 11:13   #14
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Once again thanks for the tips.
@Thomas: I'll have a fiddle with Genesis + drivers & see what happens.
@patrtrik: You've confirmed my feeling that samba was not helping.

Digging arround it seems that my network driver may be less than ideal. There seems to be an OpenPCI driver that will work better - I'll fiddle. ( Having said that VNC works over my network far better than I expected - the client seems faster than the Ultr@VNC version on XP! )

EDIT
@Zetr0: We must be posting @ the same time - thanks for the comments.

My miggy?
Ahem - Its an x86 box running Amithlon + OS3.9 + Scalos - sorry.
It was using DOpus MII ( much better than Scalos ) but the lack of eye-candy was getting me down - shallow I know. Scalos seems to have realy slugged my system ( not yet because of fancy icons ) so I may well go back.

Regards.

PS - I'm still intersted in OS4 if I can find a good box to run it on.

Last edited by Charlie; 24 November 2005 at 11:21.
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Old 24 November 2005, 12:19   #15
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You might want to replace Samba by Cloanto's AmigaExplorer. It's much faster than Samba and much easier to install (just copy one program to the Amiga and run it). On the Windows side it gives you a new section in My Computer. Does not work with Linux, though.
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Old 24 November 2005, 12:34   #16
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@Zetr0:

If you have a linux box in the house running as a samba server, then seriously why in the name of someone and something do you need anything else than smbfs on your amiga for?
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Old 24 November 2005, 17:00   #17
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Here's some odd behavior for you - mp3 playback.
Locally on either 'amiga' or XP-Box - no problems ( AMPlifier & WinAMP )
Playing mp3's in WinAMP from 'amiga' HDD - no problems, though it can take two attempts to access the 'amiga' ( samba? )
Playing mp3's in AMPlifier from XP-Box HDD - play stops after a few seconds then skips to the next track to do the same again. ( smbfs? )
Why?
How to fix??

I at least seem to have cured a lot of the speed issues by patching the TCP kernel with AmiTCP PacketFix.lha ( also discovered @ that point that there is an '020 version of Genesis lurking in the kernal drawer which I've enabled - I assume the other is plain 68k ) - I also changed some of the default packet/cache sizes in Genesis to great effect.

All very odd as all the diagnostics I run mention no sign of packet loss or any other obvious problem.

Amiga Explorer?
Hmmm - I've got on CD a copy of Amiga Forever 6.0. The only reason I've not tried so far was my wish for transparent sharing of partitions ( streaming my MP3 collection for example ). I'll have a go.

Last edited by Charlie; 25 November 2005 at 16:36.
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Old 29 November 2005, 19:10   #18
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@Patrik

you dont, infact you only need it if your a geek like me and attempting to host website via an amiga on the network... its kinda works.... when it wants too routing can be a biatch even pressed with port addresses ( i think the router has somemink to do with the intermittence on that one as it has a similar issue with the linux-box but not the 2k3 ent server box.)

so where would i start with charlies problem hmmm the obvious is the only place but i noticed you havent mentioned any subnet masks

do you know what default you windows subnet mask is ie 255.255.0.0 or 255.255.255.0 depending on you windows network these have to be maualy configged to samba
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Old 30 November 2005, 12:51   #19
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Once again thanks to all for your replies/suggestions.
Brief-ish update:
With the addition of a few tweaks ( some mentioned before ) my network now runs very well - Hurrah! ( subnet mask 255.255.255.0 )
I'm still getting the same trouble with both AMPlifier & AmigaAMP, hence my assumption that I have lingering network 'issues'.
I tried AmiNetRadio playing MP3's over the network - it has no such trouble at all! So after all my fiddling I guess the problem is with AMPlifier & AmigaAMP! - Bah.
Never mind I'm increasingly a fan of AmiNetRadio - It does all I want with MP3's, streams shoutcast & produces very good quality sound. ( at the cost of high system requirements ) My only lingering issue is how to get transparency to work with it's NG skins.
( My enqueries led me to turn off SetPatch's exec update in 3.9 vastly improving the speed of Scalos - using exec44.1b4 among other patches anyway. It's an ill wind... )

Getting back to networking: I'm happy - I still sometimes need more than one attempt to access my 'amiga' from the PC's & I have some problems when using my 'amiga' to work with files contained on the PC's. The 'amiga' also makes a rotten VNC-server.
But well.... An x86 box that thinks its an Amiga talking to XP-pro via a router using SAMBA which must be a bit of a bodge on AmigaOS anyway. Good enough.

I may well post screen shots of PC+'amiga' talking just by way of encouragement.

Thanks again.

Does anybody know of a firewire driver/stack for AOS? - Only joking.

Last edited by Charlie; 30 November 2005 at 17:28.
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Old 30 November 2005, 15:03   #20
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LOL,

actuly.... i do but i am not telling you
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