Still image related questions...

h0ffman · 24 February 2011, 20:32

Have another idea for a little production thingy... so heres another round of questions.....

1. Is there some source code somewhere for decoding IFF images? I'll be honest I haven't searched yet, sorry.

2. With images, whats the best compression method without loosing any quality? I'm talking 320X256 32 colours here (5 planes)

3. Has anyone ever done a copper based image image converter, i.e. change palette every line? Not HAM! Also is there a converter which would generate the multi palette image?

I suppose I had better mention this is all OCS/ECS based

pandy71 · 24 February 2011, 21:05

http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/wasp_2_1.lha
http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/Wasp202b.lha
http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/PicCon250.lha

h0ffman · 24 February 2011, 23:07

Cheers, PicCon seems to be the way forward.. i think, although I am having massive issues getting it to open a jpeg

Lonewolf10 · 25 February 2011, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ffman

Cheers, PicCon seems to be the way forward.. i think, although I am having massive issues getting it to open a jpeg

Maybe one of the others in the list can do jpeg's?

Personally, I'd save the jpeg as a bitmap and then go from there. I did write a simple bitmap to IFF convertor in AMOS Basic, however it was never finished and would only do up to 16 color images.

I used IFF Master to convert an .IFF file into raw data. A bit wasteful on space (100KB!), but I only have 1 image in my demo

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ffman

3. Has anyone ever done a copper based image image converter, i.e. change palette every line? Not HAM! Also is there a converter which would generate the multi palette image?

Changing the entire (32 colour) palette every line? I don't think you can as the copperlist would be well over the maximum size limit.

I don't know of any convertor that changes every colour each line, but there is software out there to help you design copperlists - I use Copper Colourz Release 2 by Fanatix.

Regards,
Lonewolf10

h0ffman · 25 February 2011, 00:45

Size limit! Must have missed that in the AHRM!

pmc · 25 February 2011, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf10

I don't think you can as the copperlist would be well over the maximum size limit.

Is there a maximum copper list size...? Would be intersting to know. Some demos use some pretty big copperlists and I've never heard of there being a size limit is all...

@ h0ffman - For image conversion, if you want an Amiga solution you could do worse than Cloanto's Personal Paint which will load .jpg, .png, .bmp etc. etc. and will save them out as .iff no problem.

For a PC based solution of the same you could try Pro Motion - it's what I used to convert the logo for the second edition of that hidden part I just coded for you.

britelite · 25 February 2011, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf10

Changing the entire (32 colour) palette every line? I don't think you can as the copperlist would be well over the maximum size limit.

Changing the whole palette for an image on every line is more than possible (I've done it). The bigger problem would be to compute a suitable palette to sync horizontally, as you can't change the whole palette in the "borders", so some of it is going to get changed during the drawing of the actual image. Although, I doubt that every single color would need to be changed for every single line.

pmc · 25 February 2011, 09:02

Thanks for confirming britelite.

I had a feeling it would be possible.

StingRay · 25 February 2011, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ffman

Cheers, PicCon seems to be the way forward.. i think, although I am having massive issues getting it to open a jpeg

As long as you have a jpg datatype installed, PicCon will load jpg's when you use "Open Picture".

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmc

Is there a maximum copper list size...? Would be intersting to know. Some demos use some pretty big copperlists and I've never heard of there being a size limit is all...

There is of course no size limit for copperlists.

h0ffman · 25 February 2011, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

As long as you have a jpg datatype installed, PicCon will load jpg's when you use "Open Picture".

This is where my problems start. I've tried installing multiple JPEG datatypes and none of them seem to want to work

Any suggestions?

pmc · 25 February 2011, 11:35

Just use PPaint:

http://aminet.net/biz/cloan/PPaint.lha

britelite · 25 February 2011, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

There is of course no size limit for copperlists.

Sure there is: the amount of chipram you have installed

StingRay · 25 February 2011, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

Sure there is: the amount of chipram you have installed

Yeah but since that is obvious I didn't mention it. I knew that someone would mention it though.

cosmicfrog · 25 February 2011, 15:07

I would love to see a copper controlled pallet changing picture or even a picture viewer

good luck

h0ffman · 25 February 2011, 17:55

I've calculated that I can do an image width of 230 pixels when changing the palette every line.

So my plane is to cut an RGB image to this width then write a routine to generate the palette and 5 plane image for each line. Not quite sure what I'm going to do if there are more than 32 colours on a line yet....

pandy71 · 25 February 2011, 18:03

Time is the limit - how many cycles in line for copper in ideal case? 56? multiplied by number of lines 625? 70000 words maximum per frame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ffman

I've calculated that I can do an image width of 230 pixels when changing the palette every line.

So my plane is to cut an RGB image to this width then write a routine to generate the palette and 5 plane image for each line. Not quite sure what I'm going to do if there are more than 32 colours on a line yet....

IMHO It will not work in that way... resize Your picture to 40 pixels in line - this is Copper color resolution in line

Lonewolf10 · 25 February 2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy71

Time is the limit

Correct.

The copperlist will only run once per frame, and will automatically restart when a VBL occurs. If the copperlist is too long not all of it will be completed and often causes a corrupt display - I know because I played with copperlists a few years back, long before attempting ASM.

Of course, if you want to be clever you could create multiple copperlists and jump between each one every few frames. Not sure what effects you could do that way, but it is a possibel solution.

Regards,
Lonewolf10

h0ffman · 26 February 2011, 03:24

Well, IMHO both of you are wrong, brite lite confirmed it above that you can change the palette every line. And I've done a shut load of palette changes on my music disk alone.

In principal it can be done, the real issue is the image conversion.

I've already written a rotten to convert a 24 bit raw rgb image down to 12 bit, then count the colours on a line and sort them into a list of most used colours on that line.

The problem is knowing what to do with the colours above colour 32.

Codetapper · 26 February 2011, 04:03

The quick hack would be to simply calculate the difference between the 32 colour entries and your colour and pick the closest match.

Is there any reason you are not using HAM mode? In this case it sounds like exactly what you do need!

h0ffman · 26 February 2011, 10:08

Cuz ham sucks balls and copper hacks rule.

thanks for the tip dude, will give it a shot

Also, there is nothing like someone saying you can't do something to drive to get it done

24 February 2011, 20:32	#1
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	Have another idea for a little production thingy... so heres another round of questions..... 1. Is there some source code somewhere for decoding IFF images? I'll be honest I haven't searched yet, sorry. 2. With images, whats the best compression method without loosing any quality? I'm talking 320X256 32 colours here (5 planes) 3. Has anyone ever done a copper based image image converter, i.e. change palette every line? Not HAM! Also is there a converter which would generate the multi palette image? I suppose I had better mention this is all OCS/ECS based Last edited by TCD; 24 February 2011 at 21:22. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Use the edit function.

26 February 2011, 10:08	#20
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	Cuz ham sucks balls and copper hacks rule. thanks for the tip dude, will give it a shot Also, there is nothing like someone saying you can't do something to drive to get it done Last edited by TCD; 26 February 2011 at 10:11. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Use the edit function.

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24 February 2011, 21:05	#2
pandy71 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: PL? Posts: 2,790	http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/wasp_2_1.lha http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/Wasp202b.lha http://aminet.net/gfx/conv/PicCon250.lha

24 February 2011, 23:07	#3
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	Cheers, PicCon seems to be the way forward.. i think, although I am having massive issues getting it to open a jpeg

25 February 2011, 00:45	#5
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	Size limit! Must have missed that in the AHRM!

25 February 2011, 09:02	#8
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	Thanks for confirming britelite. I had a feeling it would be possible.

25 February 2011, 11:35	#11
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	Just use PPaint: http://aminet.net/biz/cloan/PPaint.lha

25 February 2011, 15:07	#14
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	I would love to see a copper controlled pallet changing picture or even a picture viewer good luck

25 February 2011, 17:55	#15
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	I've calculated that I can do an image width of 230 pixels when changing the palette every line. So my plane is to cut an RGB image to this width then write a routine to generate the palette and 5 plane image for each line. Not quite sure what I'm going to do if there are more than 32 colours on a line yet....

26 February 2011, 03:24	#18
h0ffman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salisbury Posts: 746	Well, IMHO both of you are wrong, brite lite confirmed it above that you can change the palette every line. And I've done a shut load of palette changes on my music disk alone. In principal it can be done, the real issue is the image conversion. I've already written a rotten to convert a 24 bit raw rgb image down to 12 bit, then count the colours on a line and sort them into a list of most used colours on that line. The problem is knowing what to do with the colours above colour 32.

26 February 2011, 04:03	#19
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,187	The quick hack would be to simply calculate the difference between the 32 colour entries and your colour and pick the closest match. Is there any reason you are not using HAM mode? In this case it sounds like exactly what you do need!

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