01 September 2009, 23:39 | #1 |
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Amiga vs PC
I had a 386, my friends had amigas, i would not had swapped it for an amiga no matter what; to be honest.
I don't understand why people hate the reto pc, althought it was overall far superior than the amigas. |
02 September 2009, 03:00 | #2 |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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PC = no soul machine. Just power
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02 September 2009, 08:48 | #3 |
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The first time I saw a 386 it was struggling to play the Another World demo in Software Etc. Slow frame rate and the sound was horrible.
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02 September 2009, 08:54 | #4 |
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386 might have more "computing power" than 68000 amigas back then, I would say they were somewhere around 68030 or a bit more powerfull. But when 386's were out people still had lame CGA or EGA or even Hercules gfx cards which were by far worse than Amigas gfx. Only when VGA became standard (which was around 486 DX I think) with the chunky 256 colour modes were Amigas surpassed in gaming abilities. Sound wise the SoundBlaster 16 sounded kinda OK, anything before that sounded really shite. But still the games had lousy sound compared to amiga, it wasn't until things like GUS, AWE32, etc. came out that amiga was surpassed in that area too (and that was way into late 486 area).
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04 September 2009, 15:56 | #5 | |
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Another thing, my 386DX40 played dos doom at ease on full screen and highest settings; And, my friend had a 286, 16mhz (16 bits computer), it played wolfenstein 3D better than on my 386DX40! I doubt, wolfenstein 3D would run as speedy on an amiga500 or atari st. Also tried indianpolis 500 on the 286, the animation was exellent and the sensation of speed had no match to it. Also stunts was wonderful, i don't know if there is an amiga version, but i am sure it can't be up to the pc one speed; Graphic adventures and rpg are a dream playing them on my 386 pc, tried them on an amiga500, there is no comparison; (more colours, more speed/power, and more voices on sound blaster/pro/16 on the pc than on the amiga) Example (eob2 on pc is much better than on the amiga on all points, exept perhaps the intro music) Ah lands of lore! Now to plateforme/action games: - A lot of very good appoge games (commander keen), that ran on 286 pcs (the scrolling was not perfect, but was pleasant to the eyes anymay), and were for the most part better than many many plateform amiga games) - Gods is on par with the amiga version (graphics and animations mostly identical), the pc version lacks the scrolling help text, and the animated inventory. - Mortal Kombat on a 486dx 25 pc was better than on the amiga! (i would say, it was nearly arcade perfect!) - Jazz jack rabbit had silk smooth 60hz animations, mod style music and ran 100% on my 386. - Last, the Turrican II pc version is WAY better than the amiga one! (better graphics 320*240 Modex graphics), the "copper" background is present, and the 4 or more parallax scrolls of the flight levels are there; all this with 50hz PERFECT animation. (yes, in T2, the user can choose between 50hz up to 60hz) And the MOD music, that sounds better than on the Amiga; (This version has to be the greatest plateform game ever made for the pc on a technical point of view, and worked without any slowdown on my 386DX40) All this in software, no custom chips, no hardware sound mixer or blitter; As for f1gp on the st, if it was badly programmed for the pc (ie no assembler, and bad design), it's normal it will be slow as hell even on a pentium! I programmed on pc 386 in c and assembler, i used to program everything in c and then port graphic functions to assembler (i ported them to 16 bits and 32 bits assembler) and did compare the two The 16 bits assembler version was 10 times! faster than the c one; The 32 bits assembler was 1.5 times faster than the 16 bits one; It's all to do with clever programming. Also the use of the unchained VGA modex video modes, that allowed for page flipping. Last edited by Jgames; 04 September 2009 at 16:02. |
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04 September 2009, 16:21 | #6 |
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Sorry, thats just such a lot of PC loving waffle!
Mortal Kombat did have a little more in it that i'll grant you, the music however was diabolical, managing to be slightly worse than the Megadrive version! Sorry, platformers? It wasn't until the Amiga was almost done that the PC was in ANY way competing. I could list a load of platformers that a 386DX would have struggled with, but I don't need to bother. Indy 500 was indeed on the Amiga, better sound on the Amiga obviously, but slightly slower running speed, though much improved on A1200. As for your woeful Wolfenstein/Doom comparisons, i'd love to see a 14Mhz PC try any of those games..... Amiga didn't do badly at all recreating an environment it was designed to do. Your Turrican 2 claims are also a misnomer. Amiga version was released in 1991, PC version didn't arrive until 1994, the graphics in the PC version are a DIFFERENT STYLE, that doesn't equate to 'better', or do you doubt the Amiga couldn't do that very Rico Holmes graphic style so often seen in Team 17 games... its really nothing special. This music is also the same... I don't see how the 'same' can be 'better'. And hey, well done to the PC for eventually realising a version of Turrican 2 precisely 3 years later, that it only used the processor to do it all isn't quite so impressive as to why it took so long! Most of your 'brags' and 'boasts' about the PC are for games that came many years later than the originals on Amiga, the fact is, at the time when many of the Amiga versions were released, the PC simply couldn't cope. |
04 September 2009, 16:25 | #7 | |
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To ease your pain I have to say that indeed VGA graphics and the increased CPU speed made RPGs, adventures and simulations better on the PC. The sound (until CDs became popular) is debatable though. |
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04 September 2009, 16:27 | #8 |
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Also 50Hz and 60Hz screen rates were not exactly alien to the Amiga either! Sigh
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04 September 2009, 16:36 | #9 | ||||
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Yeah, i just loved playing and programming on the pc, i am not the only one i think!
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Doom can't work on a 286, this is for sure. Quote:
For plateform games with parallaxes, and for audio i grant you that; but for rpg/adventure games, the VGA, the harddrive and cpu power made a big difference. |
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04 September 2009, 17:47 | #10 | |
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04 September 2009, 17:55 | #11 | |
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I don't think they were many at that time, as the first article making modex accessible to the large public was in 1991 by michael abrash on DDJ. T2, Jazz, epic pinball, earthworm, pitfall and many others were modex and it shows in their graphics (320*240) and animation (perfectly fluid (page flipping)) The ones that did not do modex, did double buffering with mode 13, were 320*200, and the animation was not 100% fluid, i can give you examples( cool spot, oscar, trolls, soccer kid, nicky boom, ssf2t etc...) Last edited by Jgames; 04 September 2009 at 18:05. |
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04 September 2009, 18:00 | #12 |
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04 September 2009, 18:20 | #13 | ||
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Mobygames reckons The Humans and Krusty's Fun House were 1992, so if they are then them. Though almost every VGA game used mode-X back then (even things like Jill of the Jungle), as it allowed page flipping and fast VRAM->VRAM copies. Even Wolf 3D, come to think of it, was mode-X.
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04 September 2009, 18:41 | #14 | ||
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I doubt that very much, they were using the slow VGA mode 13;
Give me proofs that for example: Gods, nicky boom, joe and mac, prehistorik, wrath of the demon were modex; i seriously doubt that. Quote:
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Maybe, as i saw it on 486dx2 computer. |
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04 September 2009, 18:45 | #15 | |
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http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/humans http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/krustys-fun-house Although they have 1992 displayed in search result listings I'll try to ask on the moby forums if this is supposed to happen or a bug or leftover after some corrections. Also, specifically for The Humans, the first screenshot states 1992, but I suppose it refers to the date of the copyright for the original game, not of the PC conversion. And to please lopos2000, since this is a thread about Richard Costello and nothing else, hello Richard Costello. |
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04 September 2009, 19:00 | #16 | ||||||
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Gods, Nicky Boom and Prehistorik all run in 16-colour mode. Joe & Mac and Wrath of the Demon all run in 256-colour mode with chain-4 disabled, ie mode-X. Quote:
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04 September 2009, 19:07 | #17 | |
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How did you know they are modex? |
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04 September 2009, 19:14 | #18 | ||
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This is done for reasons of both memory and speed. Quote:
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04 September 2009, 19:20 | #19 |
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You are right. I did not think of that. The Released section should give the first release date rather than the date for the majority of releases (supposing this is what is done. I'll investigate a bit on this as I never really paid attention to that previously).
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04 September 2009, 19:25 | #20 | |
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Thanks, if you could see if chaos engine/mortal kombat/ssf2t/oscar/soccer kid/xenon2 modex also, while you're at it |
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