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Old 27 August 2021, 15:31   #21
10shu
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Originally Posted by Havie View Post
How'd they get away with that - blatant copy! Remaking games for fun and free is fine (and is generally allowed by the IP holder) but copying someones game and selling it...

Looks similar to Target 2000 with the multiple players at once.

On Steam too!
well
1-Old game...Who even know who own the copyright now.
2-They didnt called it target renegade...
3-Very little advertising, Who is aware this game is out?!
4-They added new playable character, and new enemies, redone all the art from scratch, etc...
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Old 27 August 2021, 15:54   #22
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ohh there a remake on ps4 called 8 dragons...
[ Show youtube player ]

Target Renegade: The Ice Skating Edition


The gfx does looks decen though.
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Old 27 August 2021, 16:22   #23
Havie
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Originally Posted by 10shu View Post
well
1-Old game...Who even know who own the copyright now.
2-They didnt called it target renegade...
3-Very little advertising, Who is aware this game is out?!
4-They added new playable character, and new enemies, redone all the art from scratch, etc...
Still a bit naughty though...
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Old 27 August 2021, 20:08   #24
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Update 2

After lots of back and forth, managed to align the punching and kicking frames. I tried getting Blitz to flip them horizontally but as they are of different widths, this doesn't work, so did it manually in DPaint. Also, I can use the animation function in DPaint to check them.

Punching and kicking now in the game but overnight had a thought about how to implement it more efficiently. Originally, I just had the correct frames in order as shapes and played them sequentially, adjusting their position as needed. But as some frames repeat, either I was wasting space having identical frames of tying myself up in knots using if statements to test which frame needs to be printed.

Instead I have decided to store each sequence of frames as numbers in a 2d array and link the array to the variable p_state (which holds the current state of the player i.e. 0=standing still, 1=walking, 2=punching etc.). If needed I can also add a variable to control the speed of the animation at the beginning of each array (Swainy is my guide in this).

So tonight, I will re-implement this animation system and see how it goes.

Just in case you are interested, Swainy completed an animation guide for me 15 years ago and you can see it below. Pretty sophisticated amount of graphics for a Speccy!


Last edited by Havie; 28 August 2021 at 00:39.
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Old 27 August 2021, 21:55   #25
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Have decided to have a go at porting the much loved Target Renegade for the AmigaGameJam.

The reason I picked this game is that I had a go at porting it about 15 years ago (on the PC) with the help of Swainy, who had recoloured all of the ZX Spectrum graphics (best version)! I contacted the programmer, Mike Lamb, who gave me his blessing and even got a mention in Retrogamer magazine. Then life got in the way - a baby to be precise and I didn't have the time or energy! I had got most of the first level working with the exception of baddies attacking you so was well on the way.

14 years of regret later, here I am having another try! It's definitely a bit more complex than my previous games but I have learnt a lot about how to program the Amiga over the last few years so I feel up to the challenge and hope to include some of the extra effectsI had on the PC such as a bit of parallax and possiibly foreground piillars (Metro Siege nicked this one but I did ii first 15 years ago).

Current State of Affairs

I have all the graphics in full colour as coloured bu Swainy all those years ago. Unfortunately although not using thousands of colours, they are in png format so as far as PPaint is concerned, they are in thousands of colours (and of course) each separate sheet has it's own ppalette. After a bit of work, I have a 32 colour sprite sheet with all the graphics needed for level 1 (only about 27 colours are currently being used so there may be an opportunity to increase or reduce use of colour). Do need to look into this in as there are a lot of graphics so a wrong decision here could have dire consequences.

Have copied the player 1 walking sprites and have these working.

Also have a two copperlist screen so I can scroll the top part and keep the second for the HUD.

At this stage, the player can walk in 8 directions and the screen scrolls smoothly. Here is a screenshot from WinUae (I know it is stretched but looks right in 4:3).



Next step is to add all the player attacks. Watch this space...
Great election. Using the spectrum version is a logic choice, as it has the highest resolution and most acccurate moves from the arcade.

What? wait, is there an arcade version?

Not of Target Renegade, but from the prequel. I point in case it helps you for reference of the graphics, moves and/or behaviour.

[ Show youtube player ]

Keep working on it and good luck!
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Old 28 August 2021, 00:38   #26
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I had never realised that the Speccy version had the arcade moves (minus the throw). Useful!
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Old 28 August 2021, 03:00   #27
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Originally Posted by x-vision View Post
Great election. Using the spectrum version is a logic choice, as it has the highest resolution and most acccurate moves from the arcade.

What? wait, is there an arcade version?

Not of Target Renegade, but from the prequel. I point in case it helps you for reference of the graphics, moves and/or behaviour.

[ Show youtube player ]

Keep working on it and good luck!
The most accurate version is the amstrad CPC one. It's the most complete, it even has blood, 16 colors, perfect animation and playability.

The spectrum version is very rigid, and doesn't look good, sorry for the convenience.
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Old 28 August 2021, 06:16   #28
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Originally Posted by 10shu View Post
it s strange why everybody think the ZX spectrum is the best version?
is it the gameplay? because visually it s by far the worst IMO...
Don't necessarily assume that people will have done their homework and checked all three major 8-bit platforms when they say that (in the UK it's safe to assume they've probably never seen the Amstrad version ) : this stuff is ALL about the nostalgia goggles

Of course the Spectrum port looks the worst of the 3 here, as it nearly always does.
The Amstrad has the best gfx, as often because it can do both C64-style 16 colour low res gfx (but with a much better palette) and Spectrum-style 4 colour hi-res gfx (but with no clash and even higher resolution).

The C64 has the smoothest animations (hardware sprites), best sound (SID) and I would bet probably also the best overall gameplay.

In general, I think that for most games "Amstrad vs C64" is a much more interesting comparison than the tired old "C64 vs ZX" : the CPC and C64 are actually playing in the same league.

"Amstrad vs ZX Spectrum" doesn't even deserve a debate because sound-wise it's a draw (both AY), and gfx wise it's like watching a Premier League club obliterate the Sunday League amateurs. See here for example
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Old 28 August 2021, 07:09   #29
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One of my best 8-bit-memories is playing Target Renegade on a friend's Spectrum with him in the summer of 1988.

I was actually a bit jealous he had such a great action game on the ZX, and I did not on my Amiga.
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Old 28 August 2021, 09:37   #30
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Originally Posted by reno View Post
Don't necessarily assume that people will have done their homework and checked all three major 8-bit platforms when they say that (in the UK it's safe to assume they've probably never seen the Amstrad version ) : this stuff is ALL about the nostalgia goggles

Of course the Spectrum port looks the worst of the 3 here, as it nearly always does.
The Amstrad has the best gfx, as often because it can do both C64-style 16 colour low res gfx (but with a much better palette) and Spectrum-style 4 colour hi-res gfx (but with no clash and even higher resolution).

The C64 has the smoothest animations (hardware sprites), best sound (SID) and I would bet probably also the best overall gameplay.

In general, I think that for most games "Amstrad vs C64" is a much more interesting comparison than the tired old "C64 vs ZX" : the CPC and C64 are actually playing in the same league.

"Amstrad vs ZX Spectrum" doesn't even deserve a debate because sound-wise it's a draw (both AY), and gfx wise it's like watching a Premier League club obliterate the Sunday League amateurs. See here for example
You are correct on the Amstrad graphics (although palette can be a bit garish at times). Problem for the Amstrad was that Speccy was generally the lead platform and ports were basically Speccy code wiith Amstrad graphics (or not even these sometimes) which meant that may games were slower and not as playable. Obviously this wasn't always the case and certainly now days, programmers have proved how amazing the Amstrad can play and look but then the Speccy colour clash has been overcome too!

But I think Swainy's recoloured Speccy graphics look the biz.
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Old 28 August 2021, 11:59   #31
dreadnought
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In general, I think that for most games "Amstrad vs C64" is a much more interesting comparison than the tired old "C64 vs ZX" : the CPC and C64 are actually playing in the same league.

"Amstrad vs ZX Spectrum" doesn't even deserve a debate because sound-wise it's a draw (both AY), and gfx wise it's like watching a Premier League club obliterate the Sunday League amateurs. See here for example

*eyeroll.gif* Well, I guess some folks still can't get over the fact that Spectrum, despite being the weakest hardware, still managed to be the host to some of the best games and versions (just like it is in this case).



But this is a new game dev thread, so is there really a need to rehash these decades-old silly fanboi arguments here?
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Old 28 August 2021, 12:53   #32
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*eyeroll.gif* Well, I guess some folks still can't get over the fact that Spectrum, despite being the weakest hardware, still managed to be the host to some of the best games and versions (just like it is in this case).



But this is a new game dev thread, so is there really a need to rehash these decades-old silly fanboi arguments here?
You just nailed it! better don't watch all the rage, hate and deformation of reality that anybody can read in some youtube videos and amstrad forums. From people supposedly already passing their 40's :facepalm:

See what I mean?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The most accurate version is the amstrad CPC one. It's the most complete, it even has blood, 16 colors, perfect animation and playability.

The spectrum version is very rigid, and doesn't look good, sorry for the convenience.


Yeah, sure! ok, let's change everything and use this "beautiful" port for an AMIGA version. Just to clearly state Amstrad was the real boss and ruler of the world in the 8 bit era. Even the moves are the same of the spectrum version *cough!*just a bit worse*cough!*

Behold Alan Sugar! innovator of the century and king of the universe!!
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Old 28 August 2021, 19:06   #33
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You are correct on the Amstrad graphics (although palette can be a bit garish at times). Problem for the Amstrad was that Speccy was generally the lead platform and ports were basically Speccy code wiith Amstrad graphics (or not even these sometimes) which meant that may games were slower and not as playable. Obviously this wasn't always the case and certainly now days, programmers have proved how amazing the Amstrad can play and look but then the Speccy colour clash has been overcome too!
Speccy ports were certainly an issue with smaller UK publishers (+ sometimes Gremlin), but to be honest we simply moved on to the next game when we saw one. Their loss.

It was far from the majority though : there were enough great games from the likes of Ocean (and of course the French/Spanish publishers) to keep us busy and not waste any time on the Spectrum rubbish. It was only disappointing when that happened to some high-profile titles (R-Type, thankfully homebrew coders fixed that later !) or unique ones (Saboteur)

Now, I probably have a different perspective because I grew up in France where admittedly things started off more slowly than the UK, but at least we dodged the ZX bullet : Amstrad was the leading 8-bit platform (well over 50% market share, rest was C64 + homegrown brands and nearly no Spectrum) and most of that was the 128K disc-based 6128 too.

As a result CPC owners didn't keep a low profile like they did in the UK and were probably more demanding with their games. Magazines would swiftly laugh off any Speccy ports that made it across the Channel : they would give a lot more coverage to the latest Ocean or Rafaelle Cecco games and of course the local Amstrad-first ones from Loriciels, Ubi Soft, Ere, Titus...

Quote:
But I think Swainy's recoloured Speccy graphics look the biz.
Agreed ! That wasn't meant as a jab.

Last edited by reno; 28 August 2021 at 19:54.
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Old 28 August 2021, 19:52   #34
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Yeah, sure! ok, let's change everything and use this "beautiful" port for an AMIGA version. Just to clearly state Amstrad was the real boss and ruler of the world in the 8 bit era. Even the moves are the same of the spectrum version *cough!*just a bit worse*cough!*

Behold Alan Sugar! innovator of the century and king of the universe!!
Why don't you show the Spectrum version next to it for better comparison ?



Both would require work to bring them to Amiga standards, but it's hardly controversial to say you'd have to use your imagination a lot more if you used the Spectrum as a starting point

Put it this way : if you had to port 16-bit game graphics to modern standards, which version would first come to mind to use as a reference, the Atari ST or the Amiga one ?

See, that's all I'm saying. Hearing people say that Spectrum versions were the best makes me feel I'm in some kind of parallel universe where the Atari ST has more market share and everybody is convinced it's the better 16-bit computer, and to prove it they even point you to some of the Bitmap Brothers Amiga games that were lazy ST ports

When it comes to the Amstrad, I think for many UK gamers it's simply down to a lack of awareness of how the games actually compared to C64/Spectrum back in the day (not to mention modern homebrews like Pinball Dreams). Never too late to adjust your preconceptions now that we have Youtube and emulators

Last edited by reno; 28 August 2021 at 20:00.
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Old 29 August 2021, 08:21   #35
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It’s funny that those moaning about me using the Spectrums graphics and saying that the C64 and Amstrad versions are better without even playing the Spectrum version.

The C64 game (apart from the wonderful music) plays terribly. Graphically I do like that version but it lacks the 2 player mode and it just isn’t fun to play.

The Amstrad version is great, however the bug with the music on level 2 is a bit of a killer.

Anyway, here is an old mock up of the Spectrum versions graphics coloured in from level 2. Sadly it’s in .jpg format so it’s a bit messy.



You guys might not be aware but there is an officially licensed version of Target: Renegade currently being converted to the ZX Spectrum Next.
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Old 29 August 2021, 09:09   #36
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I honestly think the Spectrum version looks a lot better than the CPC one.
Renegade (without the "Target") looked amazing on the CPC, wonder why they changed the graphics style.
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Old 29 August 2021, 09:45   #37
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I honestly think the Spectrum version looks a lot better than the CPC one.
Renegade (without the "Target") looked amazing on the CPC, wonder why they changed the graphics style.
It was a different graphic artist. Dawn Drake (who also worked on Robocop, Batman The Movie) drew the graphics for both the Spectrum & Amstrad versions of Target: Renegade.
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Old 29 August 2021, 11:39   #38
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Update 3

I have a sound track already! Saimon69 has ported the 1st level music to protracker format (I think), using only two sound channels. I had a pc version but with 8 channels it was never going to work. Saimon69's version is brilliant and fits the game really well. Already got it playing in the current build.

Regarding the versions issue - Speccy all the way. Not sure the Amiga is quite going to match the mock up above but I'll give it a good try. And keep the debate going - livens up the thread.

Hopefully I will get all the player moves into the game today and start working on collision detection. Also will need to implement a simple Z-ordering routine and sort (on the pc version, I could inefficiently compare all sprites with row on the screen, each row, to work out which should be placed first but obviously this would potentially give me 100s of if statements each loop and slow the game down to a crawl (and it would be good if it runs on an A500/600). So need to write a sorting algorithm and then use this to order shapes before Blitting. This is why programming on the Amiga is more rewarding (and fun - most of the time), you have to think more carefully and puzzle things out rather than relying on ghz of power.

More later...
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Old 29 August 2021, 12:32   #39
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Target Renegade on CPC is wonderfull 2 players game.
this is the game I played the most with two with Barbarian from Palace Software
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Old 29 August 2021, 14:58   #40
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Target Renegade on CPC is wonderfull 2 players game.
this is the game I played the most with two with Barbarian from Palace Software
You bet it is Ocean Software sold shit tons of TR on CPC (either tape and disk versions !).
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