Any news regarding A1222 Tabor Topaz?

I don't know if it's the place to ask but.

Has anyone got News regarding the A1222?

Since the specs are known but no sign of it on A-EON s site.

400 eur is a good price and i wish to buy it when i can.

I wish to go fully amiga and get rid of my windows system.

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by XenusFFox

I wish to go fully amiga and get rid of my windows system.

Expect disappointment.

[Pat the Cat]

Originally Posted by XenusFFox

I wish to go fully amiga and get rid of my windows system.

Keep the PC hardware and put Linux on it instead of malware like Microsoft products.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by XenusFFox

I don't know if it's the place to ask but.

Has anyone got News regarding the A1222?

You won't find many AmigaFE lovers here. You would probably have better luck checking another forum.

http://amigaworld.net/

Originally Posted by Locutus

Expect disappointment.

Compared to Windows? Because the A1222 doesn't have an FPU or SIMD unit? Because PPC is dead? Because AmigaOS FE doesn't support SMP? Because the Amiga makes it impossible?

[Daedalus]

There are some OS4 users here however, just perhaps less visible because bashing other platforms doesn't tend to be the primary focus of this site. Personally I might be a good candidate for a future Tabor owner, given my creaking A1-XE G4 is probably my most used Amiga-flavour machine and will probably need to be replaced at some stage.

To actually answer your questions: There's no news on the Tabor board, other than it's still being worked on software-wise. There aren't any confirmed release dates, and the OS is currently running on it but a long way from public release.

Regardless of that, it's unlikely you can fully replace your Windows life with Amiga OS or any of its derivatives or clones. There simply isn't the software support for most activities. It would help if you told us what you use on your Windows machine, but I wouldn't be hopeful of being able to transfer all your computing to any Amiga. I use Amiga OS as much as I can, but I also have Linux and Windows machines for those many tasks that simply can't be done without significantly more pain, or at all, on other systems.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

There are some OS4 users here however, just perhaps less visible because bashing other platforms doesn't tend to be the primary focus of this site. Personally I might be a good candidate for a future Tabor owner, given my creaking A1-XE G4 is probably my most used Amiga-flavour machine and will probably need to be replaced at some stage.

The Tabor doesn't seem like a downgrade to you? I can sell you a 80386 system for 400 Euros if you want to downgrade your x86 to no FPU or SIMD unit too .

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by matthey

The Tabor doesn't seem like a downgrade to you? I can sell you a 80386 system for 400 Euros if you want to downgrade your x86 to no FPU or SIMD unit too .

Haha. Hilarious. No it doesn't really, since neither of those are things I'm particularly bothered about, and the RAM and bus speeds are a healthy improvement over the A1. At the same time I won't be replacing the G4 until it dies either, and so far it's still rock solid (hefty appetite for CR2032s aside).

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Haha. Hilarious. No it doesn't really, since neither of those are things I'm particularly bothered about, and the RAM and bus speeds are a healthy improvement over the A1.

PPC is a resource hog. There is no low end PPC because it always needs bigger caches, more and faster memory and faster bus speeds. Sacrifices were made with the QorIQ P1022 to have the same resources as high end PPC and the result isn't pretty. No standard FPU, 64 bit integer registers on a 32 bit CPU, reusing commonly used and standard encoding space, shared processing units and registers, etc., sounds like something Gunnar von Boehn (Apollo Core) would design. There is a reasonable chance that the delay is caused by working around this horrible design mistake and choice of a CPU to allow non-embarrassing standard PPC floating point performance. Floating point benchmarks are still likely to be ugly.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

There are some OS4 users here however, just perhaps less visible because bashing other platforms doesn't tend to be the primary focus of this site....

understatement of the year so far No release date or pricing yet for Tabor though lots of sitings at various Amiga shows worldwide so it's for real lol Trevor from A-Eon said it will be priced to attract potential A1-500/ Samflex customers so will be much cheaper compared to X1000 and X5000. I would sign up for news on A-Eon's website to get updates from the source and also join www.amigans.net where OS4 devs and users live in peaceful harmony (you're welcome)

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by matthey

PPC is a resource hog. There is no low end PPC because it always needs bigger caches, more and faster memory and faster bus speeds. Sacrifices were made with the QorIQ P1022 to have the same resources as high end PPC and the result isn't pretty. No standard FPU, 64 bit integer registers on a 32 bit CPU, reusing commonly used and standard encoding space, shared processing units and registers, etc., sounds like something Gunnar von Boehn (Apollo Core) would design. There is a reasonable chance that the delay is caused by working around this horrible design mistake and choice of a CPU to allow non-embarrassing standard PPC floating point performance. Floating point benchmarks are still likely to be ugly.

Yep... And? I wouldn't be buying it for the elegance of design. I would be buying it to replace my current OS4 hardware when it dies. Another chip (or indeed ISA) might be nice, but at the end of the day if it runs OS4 reasonably well then it fits the criteria, and the Tabor is at a price that is reasonable outlay for a hobby. I wouldn't buy it because I want a PPC, but neither would I cut my nose off despite my face by denying myself a hobby I enjoy because of some nerdy politics.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Yep... And? I wouldn't be buying it for the elegance of design. I would be buying it to replace my current OS4 hardware when it dies. Another chip (or indeed ISA) might be nice, but at the end of the day if it runs OS4 reasonably well then it fits the criteria, and the Tabor is at a price that is reasonable outlay for a hobby. I wouldn't buy it because I want a PPC, but neither would I cut my nose off despite my face by denying myself a hobby I enjoy because of some nerdy politics.

So what do you do with AmigaOS 4?

If you were doing 3D on the Amiga (one of the few places where AmigaOS 4 is fairly modern) then you would want an FPU and SIMD unit.

If you are using retro Amiga software (or assembler programming) then an FPGA Arcade or UAE would be better.

If you need more Amiga processing power then AROS with SMP or UAE would be better.

If you need more Amiga memory then 64 bit AROS would be better.

If you need a pretty Workbench and your wallet emptied then AmigaOS 4 might just fit your bill.

Sorry. I just don't get the appeal of AmigaOS 4 on low end PPC hardware. I don't get the appeal on high end PPC hardware as long as it doesn't support SMP, 64 bit addressing, memory protection or resource tracking either. I'm not anti-PPC but the current AmigaOS 4 hardware has the big system bloat without any of the advantages from high end hardware. If you are going to stay 32 bit (which I actually prefer for a personal computer with good code density) then I want a 68k system with a tiny footprint and the performance boost from being lean and mean.

[Daedalus]

Yep, I think you make it pretty clear that you don't get OS4, at every possible opportunity. What's wrong with liking the feel of a system and wanting to use it because of that? I'm sure, to any average person, they would think your Amiga hobby is ridiculous no matter which variety you use. "You mean you paid €10 per MHz for an antique CPU? You're an idiot." "You mean you have a PC with Windows on it but you use this 25 year old OS in an emulator instead? You're crazy." "You mean you use a 12 year old Mac with an obscure OS and virtually no software? What the hell are you thinking?"

Most of what I use it for is software development, and occasionally writing articles for Amiga Future. Sure, I could do it on OS3 (and occasionally I do), but I prefer OS4. I also do it sometimes on MOS, but I prefer OS4. If I was being realistic about it I wouldn't use any of them, because in modern terms they're all an absolute joke. But it's a hobby, and I do it because I enjoy it. That's the bit you are refusing to accept.

What's wrong with accepting other people's preferences? Why is it so hard to understand a different point of view that's not number-centric, especially when the numbers of whatever your favourite platform is are a complete joke no matter which way you cut it. If it came down to hard statistics, nobody would use anything other than Windows.

Although, if your hobby is cruising niche forums looking for people to put down for their particular choice of niches, you're doing a great job, and you must be so proud of yourself. Perhaps that's why you seem to pick up bans on some forums. I mean, who do they think they are, judging you for your choice of hobby?

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Yep, I think you make it pretty clear that you don't get OS4, at every possible opportunity. What's wrong with liking the feel of a system and wanting to use it because of that? I'm sure, to any average person, they would think your Amiga hobby is ridiculous no matter which variety you use. "You mean you paid €10 per MHz for an antique CPU? You're an idiot." "You mean you have a PC with Windows on it but you use this 25 year old OS in an emulator instead? You're crazy." "You mean you use a 12 year old Mac with an obscure OS and virtually no software? What the hell are you thinking?"

I don't really do much with my Amigas any more. Learning to develop on them didn't help the Amiga situation, in general wasn't wanted and ended up being mostly a waste of time. I should probably sell them but there are a few things I can do more efficiently on them. Note that I'm closer to selling at inflated prices than buying at inflated prices which maybe makes me less crazy.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Most of what I use it for is software development, and occasionally writing articles for Amiga Future. Sure, I could do it on OS3 (and occasionally I do), but I prefer OS4. I also do it sometimes on MOS, but I prefer OS4. If I was being realistic about it I wouldn't use any of them, because in modern terms they're all an absolute joke. But it's a hobby, and I do it because I enjoy it. That's the bit you are refusing to accept.

Actually, this I do understand. The Amiga is a general purpose computer which is still adequate (and sometimes more efficient) for many jobs. Software development is probably not one of them but text editing and word processing is. I also understand wanting to buy new hardware which is not older and failing. I will probably go for an FPGA Arcade with expansion board though. Maybe I will try some FPGA programming with this setup. Processor design interests me.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

What's wrong with accepting other people's preferences? Why is it so hard to understand a different point of view that's not number-centric, especially when the numbers of whatever your favourite platform is are a complete joke no matter which way you cut it. If it came down to hard statistics, nobody would use anything other than Windows.

Us classic users don't care about numbers. We have been doing more with less for decades (some even like it). I thought it was the AmigaOS 4 crowd that was all about the numbers which has become ridiculous as AmigaOS 4 has less with PPC than x86_64 and even ARMv8 but doesn't even take advantage of what it has like multiple cores and 64 bit processors. Then again, if you are in the market for a Tabor you don't care about the numbers either.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Although, if your hobby is cruising niche forums looking for people to put down for their particular choice of niches, you're doing a great job, and you must be so proud of yourself. Perhaps that's why you seem to pick up bans on some forums. I mean, who do they think they are, judging you for your choice of hobby?

I haven't attacked you personally and you have every right to buy a Tabor. I have just stated my truthful opinion about the Tabor which you seem to already know so there is no reason to get uptight. I only seem to be censored and banned on Amiga sites, especially ones owned by A-Eon. Is it me or people who can't handle the truth?

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by matthey

I don't really do much with my Amigas any more. Learning to develop on them didn't help the Amiga situation, in general wasn't wanted and ended up being mostly a waste of time. I should probably sell them but there are a few things I can do more efficiently on them. Note that I'm closer to selling at inflated prices than buying at inflated prices which maybe makes me less crazy.

Indeed, at current rates I'm probably sitting on £2-3K of classic stuff. The temptation has been there to sell it, but can't bring myself to do it since I've had them and used them more or less constantly for 20+ years.

Actually, this I do understand. The Amiga is a general purpose computer which is still adequate (and sometimes more efficient) for many jobs. Software development is probably not one of them but text editing and word processing is. I also understand wanting to buy new hardware which is not older and failing. I will probably go for an FPGA Arcade with expansion board though. Maybe I will try some FPGA programming with this setup. Processor design interests me.

Now we're getting somewhere A lot of my development is for OS3, but some is OS4 or MOS too, and I prefer to do most of it on OS4 since I find it's a nicer system to work with than OS3 (of course hardware-dependent stuff is done on an OS3 machine, at least in the latter stages, and MOS-specific stuff is done on MOS). UAE is only really used for testing hardware configurations I don't own. And text is text is text, especially when I'm not doing the laying out.

Us classic users don't care about numbers. We have been doing more with less for decades (some even like it). I thought it was the AmigaOS 4 crowd that was all about the numbers which has become ridiculous as AmigaOS 4 has less with PPC than x86_64 and even ARMv8 but doesn't even take advantage of what it has like multiple cores and 64 bit processors. Then again, if you are in the market for a Tabor you don't care about the numbers either.

Indeed, that's the point I'm trying to get at. And it should be noted as I said, that I'd only be in the market for a Tabor if my G4 died. A Sam 460 would be an option either if it was still available.

I haven't attacked you personally and you have every right to buy a Tabor. I have just stated my truthful opinion about the Tabor which you seem to already know so there is no reason to get uptight.

Hmmm, this bit comes across as if you're trying to make me feel like I'm an idiot for wanting to use OS4. It's more than just your opinion (which you'd made already abundantly clear several times):

So what do you do with AmigaOS 4?

If you were doing 3D on the Amiga (one of the few places where AmigaOS 4 is fairly modern) then you would want an FPU and SIMD unit.

If you are using retro Amiga software (or assembler programming) then an FPGA Arcade or UAE would be better.

If you need more Amiga processing power then AROS with SMP or UAE would be better.

If you need more Amiga memory then 64 bit AROS would be better.

If you need a pretty Workbench and your wallet emptied then AmigaOS 4 might just fit your bill.

In particular, trying to imply that I throw my money away for eye candy is trying to belittle my hobby and/or my intelligence, though I suppose it should simply be taken as your negatively biased and inaccurate view of OS4.

I only seem to be censored and banned on Amiga sites, especially ones owned by A-Eon. Is it me or people who can't handle the truth?

It's all about *how* you state that truthful opinion. People can handle the truth, it's pretty obvious and indisputable. The problem is when every discussion becomes an attack yet again, as if you're enlightening people to a truth they weren't aware of, when in reality they do and it's not a concern for them - they just want to discuss it. Hearing "the truth" about how they're all using the wrong platform again and again and again gets pretty tiresome pretty quickly, as for example I'm sure you'd find if you went on an ST forum repeatedly telling them they're wrong and should all be using Amigas instead. We both know you're probably telling the truth, but in doing so you're pissing them off, and it wouldn't be long before you're permabanned.

Anyway, let's leave it at that, shall we? It seems you've found a bit of an understanding after all.