HstWB Installer - Making preinstalled HDF legal for sharing

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Heya cyberhead97,

I renamed your thread from "Making preinstalled HDF legal for sharing" --> "HstWB Installer - Making preinstalled HDF legal for sharing".

I think it makes thing clearer for people trying to search / find, and also post in

Thanks , that helps clarify what the topic is about. It was created long time ago and has grown larger than I initially expected.

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by Martin77

Hello,


Encountered an issue where HstWB Installer won't detect kickstart, namely kick.a1200.46.143, even though it is present at installer's kickstart folder.
Amiga OS 3.1.4 A1200 gets detected just fine.


Is the file corrupted or am I doing something wrong please?


Regards, Martin

The Kickstart installation is primarily for WHDLoad, where it tries to automatically detect and install Kickstart rom files that are commonly used to run WHDLoad demos and games.

Since Kickstart 3.1.4 is not used for WHDLoad, it won't be detected and therefore not shown in the Kickstart installation menu.

Most WHDLoad's will require Kickstart 1.3 for A500, so thats the file you want to place in the Kickstart directory for Kickstart installation to detect and install.

[Madk71]

Originally Posted by cyberhead97

If you want to go above 4GB, then there's a special requirement to your scsi.device or 3rd party hdd controller like GVP. It must support hdd and partitions larger than 4GB. For Kickstart 3.1 or earlier you must load a patched scsi.device during boot. Kickstart 3.1.4 comes with updated scsi.device. Then for GVP I recall it has it's own scsi device and you will have to examine what it supports. I don't have a GVP hdd controller, so I'm sure what it supports.

4GB or smaller usually works without any extra effort. But larger than 4GB is more tricky.

FFS is also limited to 2GB unless you use a patched FFS or FFS from Amiga OS 3.1.4 to enable large partitions. Note this still requires scsi device to support large partitions as well. Large FFS partitions will also consume/require large amounts of Fast ram. I don't recall exact numbers, but a 8-16GB FFS partition can consume/require approx 8-16MB Fast ram.

It's a complicated topic.

Hi, I use kickstart 3.1.4 and Amigaos3.1.4. I have no problem using 16 and 32 GB ccf or SD. I just like to create an image based on FFS(from Amigaos 3.1.4)
The terrible fire Ide after a while with PFS3 start to corrupt data on the hdd and the GVP needs a filesystem that can handle directscsi. Unfortunately, PFS3 is not able to do so. I use it on my 500+ and works just fine. I suppose it is because of the lack of support for TD64, nsd nd directscsi commands.

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by Madk71

Hi, I use kickstart 3.1.4 and Amigaos3.1.4. I have no problem using 16 and 32 GB ccf or SD. I just like to create an image based on FFS(from Amigaos 3.1.4)
The terrible fire Ide after a while with PFS3 start to corrupt data on the hdd and the GVP needs a filesystem that can handle directscsi. Unfortunately, PFS3 is not able to do so. I use it on my 500+ and works just fine. I suppose it is because of the lack of support for TD64, nsd nd directscsi commands.

My PFS3 hdd images use PFS3AIO and filesystem identifier PDS3 to make it use direct scsi, if available. This is requires on a friend's CDTV with scsi module installed. We only tried with a 4GB PFS3/PDS3 hdd image and that worked perfekt. Without PDS3 filesystem identifier, we could only get something like the first 1GB working and the remaining seemed corrupt.

Why would you want to use FFS on 16/32GB cf and sd cards? I'm not sure I understand as PFS3 is better performance wise, doesn't get corrupt if the Amiga is suddenly reset or shutdown resulting in a disk that needs to be validated and uses less memory than FFS at least when used with large partitions.

If it's because of the hdd controller doesn't like or support PFS3, then SFS might be a better choice.

[gulliver]

Using SFS on an Amiga is really a bad recommendation:
It is unmantained, has no recovery tools, and has known bugs no one has fixed.

PFS3 is better in some aspects and worst in others compared to FFS.
For example, FFS is better at multitasking, while PFS3 is better at single task performance.

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by gulliver

Using SFS on an Amiga is really a bad recommendation:
It is unmantained, has no recovery tools, and has known bugs no one has fixed.

PFS3 is better in some aspects and worst in others compared to FFS.
For example, FFS is better at multitasking, while PFS3 is better at single task performance.

I see, I never used SFS but good to know it's "price" if chosen. I won't recommend SFS then .

Good point, I din't know that FFS is better for multitasking compared to PFS3. The only situation I had to use FFS over PFS3 was with an unexpanded A1200. Using PFS3 without Fast ram means lot of Chip ram is consumes, which was ~600KB.

[Madk71]

Hi, unfortunately in the past I got some issues with PFS3, seems a problem of the Terrible fire accelerator (one of the most) and the only fs that was stable in time is FFS from Amigaos3.1.4. I am running PFS3 from some days without problems, but I'd like to be prepared just in case it fails. Reinstall everything each time is very annoying.
So if someone can tell me how to create an installation using FFS, it will be very appreciated.

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by Madk71

Hi, unfortunately in the past I got some issues with PFS3, seems a problem of the Terrible fire accelerator (one of the most) and the only fs that was stable in time is FFS from Amigaos3.1.4. I am running PFS3 from some days without problems, but I'd like to be prepared just in case it fails. Reinstall everything each time is very annoying.
So if someone can tell me how to create an installation using FFS, it will be very appreciated.

Sounds odd, that Terrible Fire accelerator is causing issues with PFS3 filesystem. During boot PFS3 checks that it's partitions work as defined, which means that it will try and read first and last sectors. If that doesn't work PFS3 will show requester errors. Such errors are typically related to scsi.device or hdd controller not being able to read hdd or partitions larger than 4GB.

To my knowledge about FFS is that it doesn't perform such checks and could become corrupt over this when used to partitions more than 4GB.

This issue doesn't seem directly related to HstWB Installer, however I would still like to help you resolving your PFS3/FFS issue.

Can you describe more in detail what Amiga your are using and which Terrible Fire accelerator you have installed? Also which PFS3 and FFS versions have you tried? How did you partitions and format PFS3 when it didn't work correctly? Which Kickstart ROMs do you have physically installed in your Amiga?

All of these questions will help me to understand your setup better and maybe help you resolve your issue

[Madk71]

Originally Posted by cyberhead97

Sounds odd, that Terrible Fire accelerator is causing issues with PFS3 filesystem. During boot PFS3 checks that it's partitions work as defined, which means that it will try and read first and last sectors. If that doesn't work PFS3 will show requester errors. Such errors are typically related to scsi.device or hdd controller not being able to read hdd or partitions larger than 4GB.

To my knowledge about FFS is that it doesn't perform such checks and could become corrupt over this when used to partitions more than 4GB.

This issue doesn't seem directly related to HstWB Installer, however I would still like to help you resolving your PFS3/FFS issue.

Can you describe more in detail what Amiga your are using and which Terrible Fire accelerator you have installed? Also which PFS3 and FFS versions have you tried? How did you partitions and format PFS3 when it didn't work correctly? Which Kickstart ROMs do you have physically installed in your Amiga?

All of these questions will help me to understand your setup better and maybe help you resolve your issue

Hi, Thanks.
I always used an A2000 6.2 recapped, with kickstart 46.143. A GVP scsi impact II with 8MB, terrible fire 534 50Mhz with FPU.
the problem in the past with PFSAIO was that after a while (maybe a month or couple o weeks), coping a file from a partition to another or simply installing a software, I receive a message of corrupt block(I don't remember exactly now). After I used FFS (using the same SD and adaptor) it is almost a year that all is fine. I had the same problem using PFS3AIO on my A1200 with same kickstart (of course the version for A1200) and aca1233n.
The way I used to create the disk was:
Always using Amigaos3.1.4 with PSFAIO-handler in L,
using hdtoolbox, I add the PFS fs using 0x50465303 as identifier (following a guide that was around at the time), and max transfer 0x1FE00. Then I crerate the partitions and set PFS as fs. I used the PFSformat to format the partitions. This is all, at the best that I can remember.
I don't exactly remember the version of the PFS3 used, 3.0 maybe. The FFS is the one that comes with amigaos 3.1.4. Please consider that the TF534 to be usable (the IDE is very slow) I have to install MMULIB with mufastrom.
Thank you

[Martin77]

Originally Posted by cyberhead97

The Kickstart installation is primarily for WHDLoad, where it tries to automatically detect and install Kickstart rom files that are commonly used to run WHDLoad demos and games.

Since Kickstart 3.1.4 is not used for WHDLoad, it won't be detected and therefore not shown in the Kickstart installation menu.

Most WHDLoad's will require Kickstart 1.3 for A500, so thats the file you want to place in the Kickstart directory for Kickstart installation to detect and install.

Thank you Cyberhead, I missed elephant in the room. Installer quite clearly requested 3.1 (40.068), while I tried to feed him with 3.1.4 (46.143). In the meantime, I have successfully created the image and everything works as charm, including WHDload. Really happy

[cyberhead97]

Originally Posted by Martin77

Thank you Cyberhead, I missed elephant in the room. Installer quite clearly requested 3.1 (40.068), while I tried to feed him with 3.1.4 (46.143). In the meantime, I have successfully created the image and everything works as charm, including WHDload. Really happy

Nice, I'm happy to hear you got it working

[jdryyz]

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself.

Looks like I must first be able to supply all the missing information on the HstWB installer screen (see attached) but I am not sure what form each item will take. Selecting the Kickstart and OS set I want to use was easy since it is already pulling info from my WinUAE install I believe. But what do I use to plug in as as the source for Amiga dir? Is it expecting .adf files, an .hdf or just an empty directory?

And where do I specify that I want to use ClassicWB_68k? Does that go under "user packages"??

Thanks.

[Martin77]

Originally Posted by jdryyz

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself.

Looks like I must first be able to supply all the missing information on the HstWB installer screen (see attached) but I am not sure what form each item will take. Selecting the Kickstart and OS set I want to use was easy since it is already pulling info from my WinUAE install I believe. But what do I use to plug in as as the source for Amiga dir? Is it expecting .adf files, an .hdf or just an empty directory?

And where do I specify that I want to use ClassicWB_68k? Does that go under "user packages"??

Thanks.

Hi jdryyz,


Hope the pictures help


Regards, Martin

[Martin77]

Originally Posted by jdryyz

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself.

Looks like I must first be able to supply all the missing information on the HstWB installer screen (see attached) but I am not sure what form each item will take. Selecting the Kickstart and OS set I want to use was easy since it is already pulling info from my WinUAE install I believe. But what do I use to plug in as as the source for Amiga dir? Is it expecting .adf files, an .hdf or just an empty directory?

And where do I specify that I want to use ClassicWB_68k? Does that go under "user packages"??

Thanks.

Hello again jdryyz,


Once you provide installer with 3.1.4.adf's & kickstart (not 3.1.4), run "hstwb_image_setup.cmd" double click "hstwb-installer_a1200.uae" - takes some time to get pass blank screen into the installer. Once there, on 18th screen you can choose to install ClassicWB_68k. See the images


Regards, Martin

[jdryyz]

Thanks for the info!

Does using an A1200.uae config matter if I wish to create an installation for an A2000? Perhaps not important during the install portion.

Also, those folders you listed do not exist in the same path as the hstwb setup files. I assume you created them on your own for convenience?

I think I need help with the "image" path also. I figured this is where I point it to the 500GB image file I created to store the system but I received an error message about a missing .json file when I specified the directory containing my image. The main hstwb installer source already has an "images" folder. Do I have to select this??

I am beginning to understand now that the red text in the installation window signifies an error. So for my OS dir, it still says I am missing (1) file. I have all of my OS 3.1.4 .adf files here (including the ModulesA2000.adf). What file is it looking for?

Will I have to continue to supply details for any of the quoted (") items and those that specify none in order to proceed?

[jdryyz]

Oh look, I was able to get it to detect my OS 3.1.4 system. I added a "legal readme" file to this directory and then respecified the OS dir. Did I really need to have this file present or maybe I just needed to reselect the dir?

I was also able to replace another (") with proper info (Install Amiga OS = Yes now).

Almost there, I think. I just need to fill in the pieces that are still missing.

[DamienD]

I thought this project was supposed to make things easy?

Which I'm sure it does; by literally automating everything... just select / point to a few required "base" things.

So I'm not sure why people are having issues? Have they not fully read the detailed documentation that cyberhead97 has written / provided?

Not that I've tried it myself, I always do thing manually; helps to better understand / troubleshoot problems that may possibly arise.

[jdryyz]

You mean this documentation?

https://github.com/henrikstengaard/h...stWB-Installer

Apologies to cyberhead9, but I wasn't finding all the details I needed here or I wouldn't be posting.

Like you, I normally do things manually and installing Amiga OS is not complicated at all.

cyberhead97's HstWB installer solves (or will solve) a specific need I have to use ClassicWB (a custom Workbench package) but with the latest OS (3.1.4 in this case). ClassicWB has not been updated to do this but I expect to get this done with the help of HstWB.

[Martin77]

Originally Posted by jdryyz

Thanks for the info!

Does using an A1200.uae config matter if I wish to create an installation for an A2000? Perhaps not important during the install portion.

Also, those folders you listed do not exist in the same path as the hstwb setup files. I assume you created them on your own for convenience?

I think I need help with the "image" path also. I figured this is where I point it to the 500GB image file I created to store the system but I received an error message about a missing .json file when I specified the directory containing my image. The main hstwb installer source already has an "images" folder. Do I have to select this??

I am beginning to understand now that the red text in the installation window signifies an error. So for my OS dir, it still says I am missing (1) file. I have all of my OS 3.1.4 .adf files here (including the ModulesA2000.adf). What file is it looking for?

Will I have to continue to supply details for any of the quoted (") items and those that specify none in order to proceed?

The folder structure is given by 16GB HstWB self install HDF image v1.4.2 I have downloaded. Are you using self install option? Just OS adf's and kick needed there.

[jdryyz]

This is where my ignorance is showing again. I do not know what I "should" be using. Given my goal, what do you think is best to use? I do not believe I need to pick from presized images since I already know how to create my own small .hdf file and I do not require more than one drive (DH0).

Selecting the "Create image from template" from the menu has given me a clue that I should unzip one of the existing archives for the closest match that I require even though it includes a DH1 drive also. Done! Now I have a correct image file dir selected. See attached.

So I have met most of the requirements now. What about the packages section? I assume this has to do with where I plug in ClassicWB but you pointed out this could be done later.

Originally Posted by Martin77

The folder structure is given by 16GB HstWB self install HDF image v1.4.2 I have downloaded. Are you using self install option? Just OS adf's and kick needed there.