Please open source all the things

[wXR]

AmiSSL is LGPLv3-licensed

http://sourceforge.net/projects/amissl/

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Wish somebody do something similar for Blitz Basic, that TED sometimes suck

This is why open source isn't the silver bullet. Blitz source codes have been open for over a decade, but TED's replacement PED is but a hack on the old TED, fixing some long-standing problems but nevertheless carrying over most of TED's problems.

[wXR]

And not open sourcing it is the silver bullet? Why even bring up the silver bullet when there is none in any context, ever? :-)

Having source available of course doesn't mean that anyone will do anything, or that they will do the (supposed) right thing. Quadruply-true for an obsolete platform. It's the point that an interested party can extend or improve it in their own eyes, if they want to. Or they can just learn from it quietly, or do nothing at all.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by idrougge

This is why open source isn't the silver bullet. Blitz source codes have been open for over a decade, but TED's replacement PED is but a hack on the old TED, fixing some long-standing problems but nevertheless carrying over most of TED's problems.

I also do not understand your logic... you need someone (or a team) who cares for the software, be it open source or closed. When somebody drops the platform opensourcing at least offers the chance that someone later takes the torch. Keeping it closed and dropping the platform means end of the software. There are countless amiga programs where this happened.

[idrougge]

Exactlly. Open source is just an opportunity, nothing more than that.

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Exactlly. Open source is just an opportunity, nothing more than that.

That's correct, but why do you mention BlitzBasic as an example? That one got some heavy development in the last decade and is still actively maintained. It might not have developed in the direction you or I preferred, but using it as an argument against open sourcing old code doesn't make any sense.

And nobody claimed freeing old software would be some kind of "silver bullet", so stating it isn't is kind of superfluous.

Btw.: continued development is only one of the goals you can achieve by freeing old code. Releasing the DPaint I sources wasn't really useful in the grand scheme of things, but I witnessed quite some people having fun studying it or even trying to compile it. And the code to phx's games obviously taught a bunch of other coders a few things about coding style, programming the hardware and solving timing problems, as can be witnessed in several threads on various forums.

So let's add "having fun" and "learning stuff" to the list of things open source makes possible.

But yeah, it doesn't heal cancer, so there.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Korodny

And nobody claimed freeing old software would be some kind of "silver bullet", so stating it isn't is kind of superfluous.

Maybe not in this recent thread, but there are plenty of vocal people out there who believe open source is the solution to all the problems. Those that believe that open sourcing AmigaOS will magically make it available on x86 and will let it become a serious contender in the Windows and Linux arena for example. Of course those people don't see the need for a development team willing to take on such a huge task; they simply see Linux and think "Wow! We can have that too!"

What I think idrougge is saying in the case of Blitz is that, while some parts have seen extensive development due to open sourcing, there are also key parts (such as TED/PED) that haven't developed as far as he'd like. It's not about the direction, but the distance. TED still carried a lot of old baggage that most other editors have long since shed. Being unable to paste in foreign characters is one example I have recently encountered for example.

[strim]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Maybe not in this recent thread, but there are plenty of vocal people out there who believe open source is the solution to all the problems.

I never saw them in this thread. No one in his sane mind claims that opening up the source code magically fixes every problem in the project. I wrote about this in my 1st post in this thread, that was in April. I can't believe this is still going on .

Consider this: if the Blitz stayed closed, would it receive any updates at all? I highly doubt that. Thanks to it being open, at least some parts were fixed, extended, reworked and so on. OlafSch and WxR made a point before me.

While open source might not be the "silver bullet", it at least allows people to contribute. The mentioned opportunity is most important. If you don't give people this opportunity, they can't do much with broken closed source software. There's no guarantee they will do anything, but it's always worth trying.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by strim

Consider this: if the Blitz stayed closed, would it receive any updates at all? I highly doubt that. Thanks to it being open, at least some parts were fixed, extended, reworked and so on. OlafSch and WxR made a point before me.

While open source might not be the "silver bullet", it at least allows people to contribute. The mentioned opportunity is most important. If you don't give people this opportunity, they can't do much with broken closed source software. There's no guarantee they will do anything, but it's always worth trying.

Closed source also allows people to contribute: by writing a replacement from scratch, free from the constraints of the original.

Doom clones didn't wait for Id Software to release Doom's sources to appear.
These guys coded their own.

If there are no coders motivated enough to start a replacement for <Insert-Your-Favorite-Project-Here> from scratch it is unlikely hat there will be many to fork and maintain an open source version. In both cases you need a full team to produce new content so if that team does not exist now, the existence of open sources is not going to make it appear magically.

UAE is open source and is a fantastically important project: how many contributors? Not even a handful. (Thanks Toni for your dedication by the way!)

[wawa]

Originally Posted by idrougge

This is why open source isn't the silver bullet. Blitz source codes have been open for over a decade, but TED's replacement PED is but a hack on the old TED, fixing some long-standing problems but nevertheless carrying over most of TED's problems.

ever heard of amiblitz (3)?
http://www.amiblitz.de/
http://amiforce.de/main.php

[wawa]

@strim

plenty of vocal people out there who believe open source is the solution to all the problems.

among others, he probably means me. in fact, i have not spoke up in this thread, because i do not actually believe that opensource is solution to all problems, and would never demand to open source all things. i believe though that given the situation in amiga-oid community open source allows at least code preservation to avoid starting from the scratch every time someone takes at a particular problem. while i do find the whole jealous secrecy about the twenty years old system a laughable attitude, i dont demand to open it up, but rather than that i choose aros.

[BuZz]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Closed source also allows people to contribute: by writing a replacement from scratch, free from the constraints of the original.

Doom clones didn't wait for Id Software to release Doom's sources to appear.
These guys coded their own.

If there are no coders motivated enough to start a replacement for <Insert-Your-Favorite-Project-Here> from scratch it is unlikely hat there will be many to fork and maintain an open source version. In both cases you need a full team to produce new content so if that team does not exist now, the existence of open sources is not going to make it appear magically.

UAE is open source and is a fantastically important project: how many contributors? Not even a handful. (Thanks Toni for your dedication by the way!)

I assume from your comment you don't contribute to open source ?

Much proprietary software uses open licenses - especially BSD or LGPL components. From OSX, Routers, TVs, to Windows. They didn't rewrite everything themselves.

UAE is well maintained by Toni, but the FS-UAE project has fed back code, and there are forks of the code for other devices such as Pandora, Android, RPI etc. All possible because of the open nature.

I have worked on lots of free software, some which had been abandoned or moved in a different direction.

Amiga software benefits massively from open source. Where do you think the compilers come from ? We are not all using SAS/C.

In your view, when SAS/C was abandoned we should have all remade a new closed source Compiler.. Funnily enough, there is no point reinventing the wheel every time..

A quick google will give you free software projects that lacked a maintainer that were taken on - it happens all the time.

From Mandriva, to Mate (from GNOME2), to XBMC (for original xbox)

[BuZz]

Why rewrite from scratch when there is a good codebase available? It's a shame when some decent projects lack development - recently for example EmulationStation - the project has fragmented now, due to lack of upstream dev - but at least we can continue development. We all hope the author will have time again to go through the pull requests - we want our improvements to go upstream, but if not, we will do it ourselves. Had it been closed - this would not have been possible.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by BuZz

Why rewrite from scratch when there is a good codebase available? It's a shame when some decent projects lack development - recently for example EmulationStation - the project has fragmented now, due to lack of upstream dev - but at least we can continue development. We all hope the author will have time again to go through the pull requests - we want our improvements to go upstream, but if not, we will do it ourselves. Had it been closed - this would not have been possible.

I was having some second thoughts about making my RetroFX libraries closed source. I don't think I will since when my Amiga dies I probably won't replace it with the same model. (I may get an FPGA system.) I won't be able to test the code.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by wawa

@strim

among others, he probably means me.

I wouldn't say that, it's just a common theme I've heard on the internet for some decades now. If I undeservedly bunched you together with those bearded misfits, I apologise.

[kamelito]

Hi,
While searching for Atari ST games source code I found this repo, look nice you can even find games sources code! Mostly Sukiya the unreleased adventure game by Lankhor, not sure if it's finished anyone wanna build it?
And lot of demos, sorry but did not get time to analyze all this just found them this morning.

There's also a Mangnetic Fields folder!

https://github.com/ggnkua/Atari_ST_Sources

Enjoy!

Kamelito

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by wawa

@strim

among others, he probably means me.

Nope, I didn't. I meant those people who believe that somehow open sourcing something magically makes it as successful as Linux.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by BuZz

I assume from your comment you don't contribute to open source ?

Huh? When did I say anything anti open source exactly?
My point was not about whether open source is good or bad, you must have misunderstood what I wrote.

Originally Posted by BuZz

[plenty of open source uses]

Amiga software benefits massively from open source. Where do you think the compilers come from ? We are not all using SAS/C.

In your view, when SAS/C was abandoned we should have all remade a new closed source Compiler.. Funnily enough, there is no point reinventing the wheel every time..

That view of mine exists only in your head.
You seem to make a lot of assumptions about what I want which I never wrote nor implied. You really ought to re-read my post.

Picture me as a nice fluffy purring kitten while you do so, this should exorcise any negative assumptions before you have a chance to write them.

[BuZz]

Apologies I misunderstood. I think I thought your comment about rewriting from scratch was odd, and may have made some assumptions. However, it is often much easier to maintain, improve something that rewrite it. So open source does help in that respect, which was what I may have been trying to get at before going off

Must have misread. Beer may have been involved.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by BuZz

Apologies I misunderstood. I think I thought your comment about rewriting from scratch was odd, and may have made some assumptions. However, it is often much easier to maintain, improve something that rewrite it. So open source does help in that respect, which was what I may have been trying to get at before going off

Must have misread. Beer may have been involved.

Glad to read that we are in full agreement then!
Beer sometimes can be treacherous indeed.