X-Amiga is here!!! - Page 2

Zetr0 · 20 November 2007, 22:59

@Fractallyte

Firstly let me say THANK YOU for X-Amiga, indeed, its something I have been waiting to get my teeth into.

Your efforts are VERY MUCH appreciated!!!!!

I look forward to getting down to installing it this weekend

Methanoid · 21 November 2007, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fractallyte

My first post - I can't resist clarifying a few things...

Likewise. I said I'm not "horribly" excited but I am still excited.

One question. Since buying a Zonbu and some other "green" kit I have gone all green. Does your Linux backend support S3 Suspend to Ram? What for me would be VERY cool would be if I could suspend EUAE and come back to it later.

Amithlon doesnt (AFAIK). S3 would happily get me to change!

I'll try X-Amiga anyway (always do) but S3 please!!

Bloodwych · 21 November 2007, 10:03

WOW Fractallyte, thanks for explaining in detail what X-Amiga is all about.

I'm really excited now as that's exactly how I hoped it would work!

Thank you for this great project. I have an older PC with X-Amiga's name already stamped on it and I'm sure you'll get plenty of support across the Amiga community.

Methanoid · 21 November 2007, 21:42

Well I got home to try this. Burned the CD, booted and it barfed

I got the pretty X-Amiga background but the script barfed

Busybox reported

/bin/sh can't access tty: job control turned off

What now? I was actually looking forward to trying this. I wanted to install this AND Amithlon on same machine and compare the two for features, speed etc....

Fractallyte, happy to try any suggested fixes etc?

Fractallyte · 22 November 2007, 08:11

Thanks for the encouragement! I didn't realise how huge a project this would be. And now there's all the fallout to deal with from the beta release...

@Charlie

Thanks! And no offense taken, don't worry.

@Methanoid

I considered suspend-to-ram, but I heard performance is flakey on different hardware. This is something I'll definitely investigate, though.

Here's a question: how would you implement the option to suspend? UAE-Control only gives a choice to exit. Perhaps a Linux console (or window) requester asking whether to shut down/reboot/suspend? But - that's an extra step (think: 'obstacle') to the ultimate goal... Ideally there should be some extra options in UAE-Control...

Hibernation is out of the question. It involves saving the current state to the hard drive, and on rebooting, querying the kernel and then re-loading the saved state. In the case of X-Amiga, it actually takes LONGER to come out of hibernation than to cleanly reboot!

The Busybox problem is quite common. The CD is having problems detecting your hardware. Does the problem occur on your Zonbu? (BTW, that's an awesomely neat computer! I WANT ONE!!!)

Does the problem occur if you try other distros, like Ubuntu?

I *think* I know of a way to fix it; working on it...

Amir

Charlie · 22 November 2007, 14:52

Hmmm. Zonbu, eh?

I've been trying to gather bits with the intention of fitting PC guts into an Oric Atmos case...
...components so far are either horribly overpriced or industrial mobo suppliers won't deal with me... (the b*stards!)

...butchering a couple of these may well be a practicable way of completing this and another project I've got on the back burner...

@Methanoid:
If in the meantime I can't find the info via the 'net would you PM me with some measurements & what you think of it?
Thanks.

Methanoid · 26 November 2007, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fractallyte

@Methanoid

I considered suspend-to-ram, but I heard performance is flakey on different hardware. This is something I'll definitely investigate, though.

Here's a question: how would you implement the option to suspend? UAE-Control only gives a choice to exit. Perhaps a Linux console (or window) requester asking whether to shut down/reboot/suspend? But - that's an extra step (think: 'obstacle') to the ultimate goal... Ideally there should be some extra options in UAE-Control...

Hibernation is out of the question. It involves saving the current state to the hard drive, and on rebooting, querying the kernel and then re-loading the saved state. In the case of X-Amiga, it actually takes LONGER to come out of hibernation than to cleanly reboot!

The Busybox problem is quite common. The CD is having problems detecting your hardware. Does the problem occur on your Zonbu? (BTW, that's an awesomely neat computer! I WANT ONE!!!)

Does the problem occur if you try other distros, like Ubuntu?

I *think* I know of a way to fix it; working on it...

Amir

Amir

I've tried X-Amiga on my Amithlon PC and it works fine. Thing is that is just the problem.

Amithlon is brilliant IF you have the right kit. X-Amiga needs to work on the more modern machines that Amithlon WONT work on.

My non working machine is a GF6150 chipset mobo, with 7600GT Nvidia VGA and SATA. All those components are a No No for Amithlon. X-Amiga should support them.

Does X-Amiga load an Nvidia and ATI driver? Does it support i865/945/965/X33/X35/Nvidia NForce 4/6100/6150/680?

I know it sounds like I am ungrateful. I am NOT, I'm VERY impressed

with the package. I just think its missing the target audience.It SHOULD be able to take marketshare from WinUAE.

BTW I also have a few other ideas on the package

but I'll worry about them when I can use it on the modern PC.

EDIT; missed the S3 questions. Dont care HOW but would like to be able to resume back to an "Amiga". Havent tried on Zonbu as its being sold now

but yes its a cool piece of kit. Just too many PCs and Amithlon PCs to keep them all. Hence the sale in marketplace here!

Photon · 26 November 2007, 18:37

Heh, this thread kinda verifies a theory subscribe to... show people something new, and unless it's as easy to explain as "it heats frozen food quickly", most will throw up on it and say "what's it good for?". (In the case of the microwave oven, most would say "but I _have_ an oven", and "I thaw food for the next day overnight and heat it in a pot in five minutes anyway!". It took a few years for people to 'get it', and now everyone has it.)

So for myself, I now feel like one of those who don't 'get it' (well, not all of it anyway). Until I get it, I will keep any thoughts like "Why is it better than my Linux running E-UAE?" to myself.

I ask you instead

Why is this good?

Charlie · 26 November 2007, 20:11

Hi Photon:
I'm sure Fractallyte could describe his own work far more eloquently than me, but as I'm the one with verbal diarrhoea - I'll have a go.

A few premises:
-You like AmigaOS, but for whatever reason find emulation 'better' than the 'real thing'.
but
-You find running AmigaOS on top of another OS 'intrusive' with regard to that whole 'experience-thing'.
and
-You may be a bit annoyed that the underlaying OS causes the emulation to 'feel wrong'. (quite apart from the horribly slow boot-time)
also
-It's nice / useful that AmigaOS under emulation is FAR faster (and cheaper) than 'the real thing'.
.
-Maybe you do it 'because you can'.

If that sounds like you, your options were:
(In rough order of 'goodness')
-Run Amithlon - Great, but there are increasing compatibility issues with modern x86 hardware.
-Run AmigaXL - Great too, but QNX is no-longer supported as a desktop-OS so compatibility issues are creeping in here.
-Run KXLight off the Amiga Forever CD - Cleaver, but not that good, and it's bloody difficult to HD-install, and there's no docs, and you may have 'issues' with Cloanto.
-Roll your own Mini-Linux on which to run E-UAE - Great, if you have the faintest idea where to begin. (I'll say no more at this point given my well documented opinions on that subject)

Now we have X-Amiga.

Emulation nirvana if...
...You haven't the guts / hardware to run Amithlon.
...You want chipset emulation out of the box. (Not what Amithlon is about)

Useful answer..?

Fractallyte · 26 November 2007, 21:51

@Methanoid
X-Amiga's display is just generic VESA. Support could be added for new-fangled graphics cards, but I wasn't sure if there'd be any difference in the quality of display (as far as I'm aware, E-UAE supports OpenGL on the Mac only).

You're absolutely right though, it should work on the latest computers. The problem is that I'm working with 'trailing-edge' hardware ;-)

I have to spend some extra time researching and testing...

@ Photon
Trying to stick to the K.I.S.S principle ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") is really hard!

X-Amiga was initially just a study into the smallest possible OS that could run E-UAE. It's intended to be small, simple and unobtrusive. UAE on desktop Linux or Windows do exactly the same thing, but with all the extras!

Methanoid · 27 November 2007, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fractallyte

@Methanoid
X-Amiga's display is just generic VESA. Support could be added for new-fangled graphics cards, but I wasn't sure if there'd be any difference in the quality of display (as far as I'm aware, E-UAE supports OpenGL on the Mac only).

You're absolutely right though, it should work on the latest computers. The problem is that I'm working with 'trailing-edge' hardware ;-)

I have to spend some extra time researching and testing...!

I'm willing to test too. I was VERY impressed with the package on my Amithlon machine but obviously want to run it on a newer machine. Just PM me if U have a hack U wanna test and I'm ready!

Methanoid · 03 December 2007, 08:55

Damn, looks like the troublesome Real Life (TM) thing has got in the way as Amir hasnt been seen for over a week!

Charlie · 03 December 2007, 09:50

'Life, don't talk to me about life...'

BippyM · 03 December 2007, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Damn, looks like the troublesome Real Life (TM) thing has got in the way as Amir hasnt been seen for over a week!

He heard from you and ran for the hills

Bloodwych · 03 December 2007, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Damn, looks like the troublesome Real Life (TM) thing has got in the way as Amir hasnt been seen for over a week!

Well, he must still be working away as his website has been updated and a new iso dated 1st Dec is on his site!

http://xamiga.net/index.html

Methanoid · 04 December 2007, 11:35

Tried the new ISO. Same problem (although I didnt notice the error message including "No Bootable device found" before)

/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

I have a SATA drive on my machine. I know earlier kernel Amithlon (before Gary Colville's hacked kernels) would not use SATA so perhaps X-Amiga is using an older kernel?

The install picture is great but I'd like to get further in!!

Fractallyte · 04 December 2007, 18:20

The website's now OK on IBrowse and AWeb. There's also more documentation, etc.

The latest 2.6.22 kernel is used, but I think SATA modules have to be loaded for specific hardware. I'm looking into it - probably I'll have to go with automatic hardware detection.

In any case, this is the area I'm currently working on...

(Edit) BTW, does Knoppix boot up OK on your computer? If so, I can try hacking something from it! (Knoppix, that is, not your computer... ;-)

Bloodwych · 04 December 2007, 18:24

You're doing a great job! The website looks great. Keep up the good work, it's a fantastic project.

Methanoid · 05 December 2007, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fractallyte

The latest 2.6.22 kernel is used, but I think SATA modules have to be loaded for specific hardware. I'm looking into it - probably I'll have to go with automatic hardware detection.

In any case, this is the area I'm currently working on...

(Edit) BTW, does Knoppix boot up OK on your computer? If so, I can try hacking something from it! (Knoppix, that is, not your computer... ;-)

Good man Amir, keep it up. ISTR Knoppix does boot fine on all my machines but I'll check tonight.

Fractallyte · 05 December 2007, 10:27

@Bloodwych
Wow, thanks! :-)

@Methanoid
SATA *might* work now when booting. Let me know if problems occur! Sorry I can't test any of this. One day there might be separate 'stable' and 'testing' versions... ;-)

26 November 2007, 20:11	#29
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Hi Photon: I'm sure Fractallyte could describe his own work far more eloquently than me, but as I'm the one with verbal diarrhoea - I'll have a go. A few premises: -You like AmigaOS, but for whatever reason find emulation 'better' than the 'real thing'. but -You find running AmigaOS on top of another OS 'intrusive' with regard to that whole 'experience-thing'. and -You may be a bit annoyed that the underlaying OS causes the emulation to 'feel wrong'. (quite apart from the horribly slow boot-time) also -It's nice / useful that AmigaOS under emulation is FAR faster (and cheaper) than 'the real thing'. . -Maybe you do it 'because you can'. If that sounds like you, your options were: (In rough order of 'goodness') -Run Amithlon - Great, but there are increasing compatibility issues with modern x86 hardware. -Run AmigaXL - Great too, but QNX is no-longer supported as a desktop-OS so compatibility issues are creeping in here. -Run KXLight off the Amiga Forever CD - Cleaver, but not that good, and it's bloody difficult to HD-install, and there's no docs, and you may have 'issues' with Cloanto. -Roll your own Mini-Linux on which to run E-UAE - Great, if you have the faintest idea where to begin. (I'll say no more at this point given my well documented opinions on that subject) Now we have X-Amiga. Emulation nirvana if... ...You haven't the guts / hardware to run Amithlon. ...You want chipset emulation out of the box. (Not what Amithlon is about) Useful answer..? Last edited by Charlie; 26 November 2007 at 21:52.

04 December 2007, 18:20	#37
Fractallyte Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Terabithia Posts: 16	The website's now OK on IBrowse and AWeb. There's also more documentation, etc. The latest 2.6.22 kernel is used, but I think SATA modules have to be loaded for specific hardware. I'm looking into it - probably I'll have to go with automatic hardware detection. In any case, this is the area I'm currently working on... (Edit) BTW, does Knoppix boot up OK on your computer? If so, I can try hacking something from it! (Knoppix, that is, not your computer... ;-) Last edited by Fractallyte; 04 December 2007 at 18:25.

20 November 2007, 22:59	#21
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Fractallyte Firstly let me say THANK YOU for X-Amiga, indeed, its something I have been waiting to get my teeth into. Your efforts are VERY MUCH appreciated!!!!! I look forward to getting down to installing it this weekend

21 November 2007, 10:03	#23
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	WOW Fractallyte, thanks for explaining in detail what X-Amiga is all about. I'm really excited now as that's exactly how I hoped it would work! Thank you for this great project. I have an older PC with X-Amiga's name already stamped on it and I'm sure you'll get plenty of support across the Amiga community.

21 November 2007, 21:42	#24
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,873	Well I got home to try this. Burned the CD, booted and it barfed I got the pretty X-Amiga background but the script barfed Busybox reported /bin/sh can't access tty: job control turned off What now? I was actually looking forward to trying this. I wanted to install this AND Amithlon on same machine and compare the two for features, speed etc.... Fractallyte, happy to try any suggested fixes etc?

22 November 2007, 08:11	#25
Fractallyte Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Terabithia Posts: 16	Thanks for the encouragement! I didn't realise how huge a project this would be. And now there's all the fallout to deal with from the beta release... @Charlie Thanks! And no offense taken, don't worry. @Methanoid I considered suspend-to-ram, but I heard performance is flakey on different hardware. This is something I'll definitely investigate, though. Here's a question: how would you implement the option to suspend? UAE-Control only gives a choice to exit. Perhaps a Linux console (or window) requester asking whether to shut down/reboot/suspend? But - that's an extra step (think: 'obstacle') to the ultimate goal... Ideally there should be some extra options in UAE-Control... Hibernation is out of the question. It involves saving the current state to the hard drive, and on rebooting, querying the kernel and then re-loading the saved state. In the case of X-Amiga, it actually takes LONGER to come out of hibernation than to cleanly reboot! The Busybox problem is quite common. The CD is having problems detecting your hardware. Does the problem occur on your Zonbu? (BTW, that's an awesomely neat computer! I WANT ONE!!!) Does the problem occur if you try other distros, like Ubuntu? I think I know of a way to fix it; working on it... Amir

22 November 2007, 14:52	#26
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Hmmm. Zonbu, eh? I've been trying to gather bits with the intention of fitting PC guts into an Oric Atmos case... ...components so far are either horribly overpriced or industrial mobo suppliers won't deal with me... (the b*stards!) ...butchering a couple of these may well be a practicable way of completing this and another project I've got on the back burner... @Methanoid: If in the meantime I can't find the info via the 'net would you PM me with some measurements & what you think of it? Thanks.

26 November 2007, 18:37	#28
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	Heh, this thread kinda verifies a theory subscribe to... show people something new, and unless it's as easy to explain as "it heats frozen food quickly", most will throw up on it and say "what's it good for?". (In the case of the microwave oven, most would say "but I _have_ an oven", and "I thaw food for the next day overnight and heat it in a pot in five minutes anyway!". It took a few years for people to 'get it', and now everyone has it.) So for myself, I now feel like one of those who don't 'get it' (well, not all of it anyway). Until I get it, I will keep any thoughts like "Why is it better than my Linux running E-UAE?" to myself. I ask you instead Why is this good?

26 November 2007, 21:51	#30
Fractallyte Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Terabithia Posts: 16	@Methanoid X-Amiga's display is just generic VESA. Support could be added for new-fangled graphics cards, but I wasn't sure if there'd be any difference in the quality of display (as far as I'm aware, E-UAE supports OpenGL on the Mac only). You're absolutely right though, it should work on the latest computers. The problem is that I'm working with 'trailing-edge' hardware ;-) I have to spend some extra time researching and testing... @ Photon Trying to stick to the K.I.S.S principle ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") is really hard! X-Amiga was initially just a study into the smallest possible OS that could run E-UAE. It's intended to be small, simple and unobtrusive. UAE on desktop Linux or Windows do exactly the same thing, but with all the extras!

03 December 2007, 08:55	#32
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,873	Damn, looks like the troublesome Real Life (TM) thing has got in the way as Amir hasnt been seen for over a week!

03 December 2007, 09:50	#33
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	'Life, don't talk to me about life...'

04 December 2007, 11:35	#36
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,873	Tried the new ISO. Same problem (although I didnt notice the error message including "No Bootable device found" before) /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off I have a SATA drive on my machine. I know earlier kernel Amithlon (before Gary Colville's hacked kernels) would not use SATA so perhaps X-Amiga is using an older kernel? The install picture is great but I'd like to get further in!!

04 December 2007, 18:24	#38
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	You're doing a great job! The website looks great. Keep up the good work, it's a fantastic project.

05 December 2007, 10:27	#40
Fractallyte Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Terabithia Posts: 16	@Bloodwych Wow, thanks! :-) @Methanoid SATA might work now when booting. Let me know if problems occur! Sorry I can't test any of this. One day there might be separate 'stable' and 'testing' versions... ;-)

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