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Old 06 September 2020, 19:12   #1
MrClump
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Kickstart 3.1.4 vs 3.x

I'm considering upgrading my Kickstart ROM when it comes back from recapping, primarily to get improved large drive support. I believe I need either Hyperion's Kickstart 3.1.4 or Cloanto's 3.x for this?

Other than they both offer improved support for larger hard drives, the workbench.library issue and will show different names on the purple boot screen which I only ever see if something has gone wrong; I'm really unclear on the pros and cons of each one!

Some guidance would be very much appreciated.
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Old 06 September 2020, 19:33   #2
duga
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3.1.4 is newer and better.

https://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/

Here you can find the release notes: https://www.hyperion-entertainment.c...iles&parent=39
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Old 06 September 2020, 20:34   #3
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As above, 3.1.4 is an evolution of the operating system with many parts fixed and updated, and all tested to work together correctly.

3.X is a lash up of user patches slapped together with 3.1 and can only lead to anger, hate, suffering, and eventually the dark side.
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Old 06 September 2020, 20:42   #4
TjLaZer
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Kickstart 3.1.4 vs 3.x

Only downside is the ROM is missing workbench.library (gets loaded with WB on your HD) so when you boot disks with WB on them it won't work. You would have to copy this lib to every disk, and on some disks the lib won't fit. So iif you like to boot from a lot of disks stick with the 3.1 ROM!

Last edited by TjLaZer; 07 September 2020 at 10:50.
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Old 06 September 2020, 20:56   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Only downside is the ROM is missing workbench.library (gets loaded with WB on your HD) so when you boot disks with WB on them it won't work. You would have to copy this lib to every disk, and on some disks the lib won't fit. So it you like to boot from a lot of disks stick with the 3.1 ROM!
My understanding is that if you have 3.1.4 installed on the HD in the machine, and 3.1.4 ROMs installed, when you boot from a floppy without workbench.library onboard the system should check the HD for the library, grab it from there, and bash on loading the disk.

But yes - 3.1.4 isn't really meant for machines with no HD onboard.
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Old 06 September 2020, 21:42   #6
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Something I've always wondered.

Is it possible to put 3.1.4's FastFileSystem implementation onto 3.0/3.1 installs? Would it be as simple as copying L:FastFileSystem from the disks to my 3.0/3.1 install or is it more tightly coupled to 3.1.4?

EDIT: Also replacing HDToolBox with the 3.1.4 version wouldn't hurt.

Last edited by Radertified; 07 September 2020 at 00:40.
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Old 06 September 2020, 21:49   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
You would have to copy this lib to every disk, and on some disks the lib won't fit
You may misunderstood something? Would be crazy to copy the wb lib to each floppy disk. Only one disk/source is needed to load from. On the other hand, loading non wb stuff from floppy to load wb is already crazy IMHO.
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Old 07 September 2020, 01:23   #8
MrClump
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Looks like 3.1.4 is the way to go then.
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Old 07 September 2020, 01:28   #9
TjLaZer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb View Post
You may misunderstood something? Would be crazy to copy the wb lib to each floppy disk. Only one disk/source is needed to load from. On the other hand, loading non wb stuff from floppy to load wb is already crazy IMHO.
Nope, that is exactly what happens. Because when you boot from a disk. libs: is on the disk, not your HD.
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Old 07 September 2020, 01:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigolemon View Post
My understanding is that if you have 3.1.4 installed on the HD in the machine, and 3.1.4 ROMs installed, when you boot from a floppy without workbench.library onboard the system should check the HD for the library, grab it from there, and bash on loading the disk.

But yes - 3.1.4 isn't really meant for machines with no HD onboard.
Incorrect. You would have to copy workbench.library to every floppy disk that has it's own WB on it for it to work. It does not check your HD for the library. That is why I haven't installed it in my machine.
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Old 07 September 2020, 01:42   #11
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I have gone the 3.1.4.1 route and am enjoying it on my A1200 with an HD. I don't see myself using this machine without a HD to be honest. As for my A500....well, I think I am going to keep that as a pure games machine with a gotek or something similar, so the new ROMs a pretty much not going to make a difference there. I would go for it.
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Old 07 September 2020, 01:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Incorrect. You would have to copy workbench.library to every floppy disk that has it's own WB on it for it to work. It does not check your HD for the library. That is why I haven't installed it in my machine.
What about „assign libs: dh0:” in your disk’s startup-sequence ?
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Old 07 September 2020, 03:13   #13
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so any old coverdisks or games that boot to workbench won't work?
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Old 07 September 2020, 07:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Incorrect. You would have to copy workbench.library to every floppy disk that has it's own WB on it for it to work. It does not check your HD for the library. That is why I haven't installed it in my machine.
You are mistaken. It checks the HD for the library.

Don't install 3.1.4 on a floppy only machine. On a HD + Fast RAM machine it is fine.
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Old 07 September 2020, 10:47   #15
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Kickstart 3.1.4 vs 3.x

Then why have dozens of people on Facebook Amiga groups posted screenshots and confusion of blank workbench screens when trying to boot up a workbench disk with the 3.1.4 Rom? And people telling them as a work around to insert the Modules disk in DF1: ? And they said they had the WB installed on a Hard Disk. I haven’t installed mine because of this. Using the 3.1 ROM.

Last edited by TjLaZer; 07 September 2020 at 10:52.
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Old 07 September 2020, 11:17   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Then why have dozens of people on Facebook Amiga groups posted screenshots and confusion of blank workbench screens when trying to boot up a workbench disk with the 3.1.4 Rom? And people telling them as a work around to insert the Modules disk in DF1: ? And they said they had the WB installed on a Hard Disk. I haven’t installed mine because of this. Using the 3.1 ROM.
The issue is the library does have to be somewhere.

So if you install the ROMs, have a blank hard drive, and boot the main Workbench disk - you'll get the message saying workbench.library cannot be found. You then need to insert the install disk to get past this message as it has these libs onboard.

If you boot the Install disk, it'll be fine, as the libraries are on there - and you can then install 3.1.4 to your hard drive.

Once 3.1.4 is on the hard drive, you can boot the workbench disk and it'll be fine, as it will find workbench.library etc on the hard drive. I'm not sure if these people did have 3.1.4 installed on disk, as I cannot replicate the issue they were facing. Perhaps some confusion there if they had a previous install with 3.1 or earlier?

To confirm I'm not talking utter pish, I've just tested on my machine, and booted a vanilla 3.1 floppy and it loaded with no issues (as 3.1.4 was on my hard drive with the needed libs).

Last edited by indigolemon; 07 September 2020 at 12:45.
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Old 07 September 2020, 11:43   #17
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My regular 3.1 ROMs also don't contain workbench.library. So if people find that confusing, please send that particular Amiga to me. :-) Especially the Commodore built ones.
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Old 07 September 2020, 13:42   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Then why have dozens of people on Facebook Amiga groups posted screenshots and confusion of blank workbench screens when trying to boot up a workbench disk with the 3.1.4 Rom? And people telling them as a work around to insert the Modules disk in DF1: ? And they said they had the WB installed on a Hard Disk. I haven’t installed mine because of this. Using the 3.1 ROM.
Well, for a start, there are people confused on Facebook about the requirement to install the OS, or who replaced the ROM and tried to boot their existing 3.0 installation without reading the instructions. And then there are a few people on Facebook with a grudge against 3.1.4 for whatever reason who insist on perpetuating this myth.

The 3.1.4 ROM includes a module that searches every mounted volume for the workbench and icon libraries during boot. I would suggest you try it yourself first, rather than making assumptions based on a few posts on Facebook.
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Old 07 September 2020, 17:19   #19
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
The 3.1.4 ROM includes a module that searches every mounted volume for the workbench and icon libraries during boot. I would suggest you try it yourself first, rather than making assumptions based on a few posts on Facebook.
Does the mentioned module only search for those libraries specifically, or does it work with any library?
Edit: I suppose the module just makes those two specific libs resident, so it has nothing to do with _LVOOpenLibrary() searching multiple volumes!?
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Old 07 September 2020, 17:28   #20
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I'm pretty sure it's just a loader for those libraries, to solve the issue of them not being in ROM. Otherwise the exec module would need to be changed too, since it's possible to run a custom ROM without this module present at all.
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