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Old 21 June 2020, 12:28   #1
stevelord
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Bad Apple Amiga Version

Hi,


I saw the amazing Atari ST version of Bad Apple on youtube and decided I'd give an Amiga version a go. Initially I tried AGABlaster which was fine but was around 230Mb in size and used way more colours than needed.


I made an Anim8 sndanim with ffmpeg, sox, ham_convert and Wavetracer DS, mostly on an Amiga 4000. The Anim is about 70-odd mb in size and plays on my real Amiga 4000 with AnimFX. I entered it yesterday into the wild section at yesterday's NovaParty, hopefully it won't come last


Normally I'd upload it to the EAB FTP but that's down. Aminet has restrictions on copyrighted material and I don't know about the music's copyright status. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on where to put it? I'm planning on uploading it to YouTube at some point but as for where to put the original .anim file I'm not sure.


Am I being overconcerned about Aminet, or am I right to not upload it there? If so, where else should I put it?
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Old 21 June 2020, 18:04   #2
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Nice you gave that a try. I'd really like to see the video. Want to share a youtube link?

If you'r reluctant about Aminet you could share the files via dropbox/gdrive or the like until EAB Ftp is up again.
And I think scene.org hosts a lot of stuff that's also on pouet?!...

Out of personal interest: Will the anim run on an accelerated A1200?
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Old 21 June 2020, 19:30   #3
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Isn't Bad Apple vector based? A bit like Spaceballs State of the Art.
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Old 21 June 2020, 21:20   #4
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I think the original vid from the compo is going up soon. There was some audio clipping so I've decided to re-render it, this time with a 100% real Amiga-based workflow. Ffmpeg is dumping out pngs now, which I'll feed into png2ilbm, so it should be a few days to complete, after which point I'll upload the lot.

I'm going to write this up in my newsletter at https://thedorkweb.substack.com/ so a full breakdown should be out two thursdays from now.

It does definitely work on an A4000 with an 060/50. I've tried on Winuae with an A2000 build and that guru'd, which could just be AnimFX not wanting to work on KS1.3. It's 320x240x16 colours, so hopefully requirements should be fairly low. I imagine the biggest issue will be i/o throughput.
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Old 22 June 2020, 09:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
Isn't Bad Apple vector based? A bit like Spaceballs State of the Art.

It looks it but it isn't. It's a video that was originally uploaded to a japanese board, then turned into 640x200 2-colours for the 8088 Domination demo. The original shadow puppet video uses about 16 colours roughly, some frames slightly more.


There's a really good Atari ST port that just streams the individual blits in off disk, and other ports to things like the C64 that are a little bit extreme.


When I started looking into this originally I thought about delta packing and storing the blits, then I realised that the Amiga's anim format can do a lot of the heavy lifting. I used agaconv first to make a CDXL video which works fine but is about 230mb. My goal is something that does 30fps in 320x240 with 16 colours, followed by either 640x480 in 2 and whatever's needed to get something playing on something like an Amiga 500 or 2000 with nothing more than a HD. As long as it performs better than the Atari ST version I don't mind
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Old 22 June 2020, 09:24   #6
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It is vector (or rather polygon) based.

There are two versions, one is normal version, other is shadow version (which You mean).
Normal version looks that:

[ Show youtube player ]

Shadow version is based on this one but only shadows (outlines) are visible.
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Old 22 June 2020, 16:53   #7
ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
Shadow version is based on this one but only shadows (outlines) are visible.
Actually is the opposite (but who cares ).
The 'puppets' version is a chinese work derived from the original japanese silouetthe version.

And about the Atari ST version.. a good anim player but not much more.
Amiga could do exactly the same with a DMA device for the stream.
Much better the impressive C64 version

But it seems to me that all this has already been said in other threads..
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Old 23 June 2020, 13:34   #8
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If someone is interested, few years ago Phibrizzo/BrokenCube made SANIM version of Bad Apple. Animation is available for download here. For replay BiganimFX is required (or similar replayer).
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Old 01 July 2020, 01:55   #9
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Ok, I have a capture here: [ Show youtube player ]

There's a couple of visual issues which I think are animconvert not handling the dithering and colour changes properly and the odd sound glitch which I think might be to do with the period and audio player. That dot on the bottom right is my mouse pointer. 320x256x16 colours with 22030hz stereo. I'll have the anim, all the raw images and a guide on how to do this up on Github later this week.

All of this was made, start to finish on the same Amiga 4000 being used to capture the playback. It took about 3 days of computing time, all-in.
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Old 02 July 2020, 13:53   #10
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I've now added a Github repo with the anim in Anim5 and Anim7L sound anim format for people to try. I've also put some instructions up for anyone wanting to do their own. This took about 3-4 days of computing time on an 060/50, so I've left the raw data in if people just want to try parts of it on a real Amiga.


This does have massive space savings compared to AGABlaster anims but is orders of magnitude more of a faff both to build and play. If you want to run this on an Amiga expect to wait upwards of 4 minutes before play starts with AnimFX.



This project became more about doing this *on* an Amiga to prove it was possible than actually making it worthwhile to do so.



I can see it being practical for short anims like the Itchy and Scratchy anims from way back when, but that's about it.
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Old 04 July 2020, 10:22   #11
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How long might take to vectorize and store (precalculation of course) this?
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Old 04 July 2020, 16:44   #12
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I'm not sure about how long it would take to convert to vectors. To convert each frame to SVG on a PC would probably take a few minutes, then you probably want to store vector deltas per frame. At 16 colours with dithering I'm not sure it'd be worthwhile vectorising, but for mono or 4 colours I imagine you could probably shave some size off.

IIRC you could flood fill shapes with the blitter, but you may as well just read in frame delta bitmaps and blit those instead like the ST port.
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Old 06 July 2020, 12:53   #13
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Nice work, I've been looking an Amiga version of bad apple for some time now. I'll try the animation on my 1200 and see how it goes.

I'd like to see someone make it in the style of state of the art but even an animation or video is cool to have. Speaking of which if we are using AGAblaster there is no reason you couldn't encode the 3D model version, that said though I prefer the shadow puppet original.
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Old 11 July 2020, 09:38   #14
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@stevelord,
thanks for this great work!

Anim5/7 without sound are playing well on my 68030.
With sound, some sequences are jerky (I use AnimFX)
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Old 11 July 2020, 16:58   #15
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i made a fake Bad Apple for Amiga 500 based on playstation version
https://www.facebook.com/10883104422...487124731/?t=1
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Old 12 July 2020, 04:00   #16
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Seiya that looks great! How did you encode it? What resolution, depth, framerate and sample rate are you using?
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Old 12 July 2020, 07:07   #17
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In my opinion if the Amiga Bad Apple demo does not fit in one - max two floppies and is vectorized together with a top notch mod then is no game... but that is me
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Old 12 July 2020, 07:34   #18
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Interesting point

Animations are demo scene too, IMHO

You can like those or not, but they are clearly a category of demos
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Old 12 July 2020, 15:48   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelord View Post
Seiya that looks great! How did you encode it? What resolution, depth, framerate and sample rate are you using?
video is encodend in 320x216, at 15 fps and depth 16 bit (555).
i used AVI4CH.exe to final encode in HAM.

On Amiga run with Hamp.run command, so it run on normal A500.

video in HAM is 165 MB and too big. As say Saimon69 it would be nice to have demo in ADF format.
I try to find some packer that could stay in 880k and auto packing, but i found nothing in Amiga side.

I know that old titancrunch pack so much, but i don't know if it work with video.
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Old 12 July 2020, 18:22   #20
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Hi!

I converted all frames to svg but it is unuseable.
The lines curved, bended ....from point to point.
If anyone know a converter for fixed points... I am?

Until then... I think you all interested.

https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/bad-apple
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hziyd4xkvp...Saber.rar?dl=0
[ Show youtube player ]
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