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Old 03 September 2020, 16:31   #1
rabidgerry
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RTC Running slow on Apollo 1260

Does anyone have any ideas why the RTC on my Apollo accelerator might be running slow?

Installed was a VL2020 battery. I thought initially this would need replacing so I replaced it the other night and it is still not working. I thought the time and date had frozen still but on further investigation I noticed it appears the title bar clock plugin in scalos is what has frozen to what ever date and time I set it to however if I go to clock itself in utilities it is running and keeping time but it ends up running slowly.

I actually thought it wasn't keeping time at all anywhere but it seems the clock application is running and does set when I set it but it is falling behind.

A few times also I noticed the clock was not being found in sysinfo but it seems to be being found now. I also did CIA tests and it allowed me to set a time and date and tests seemed ok.

Has anyone any suggestions as what might be a problem here? Might the chip be knackered?

In the mean time can I run another RTC module I own from the clock port on the mother board? Wont cause any issues will it?
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Old 03 September 2020, 16:42   #2
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CIA problem most likely. Try with Amiga Testkit.

The RTC is only loaded from on boot and saved to when you decide to save. The OS keeps the real time separately when running.
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Old 03 September 2020, 18:46   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
CIA problem most likely. Try with Amiga Testkit.

The RTC is only loaded from on boot and saved to when you decide to save. The OS keeps the real time separately when running.
Done a couple. There is another one I can try for peripheral and ports but it says it could damage stuff so don't wanna try that test.



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Old 03 September 2020, 18:55   #4
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Either the RTC caps or oscillator may need replacing or the RTC chip itself might need replacing.
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Old 03 September 2020, 20:48   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarmon View Post
Either the RTC caps or oscillator may need replacing or the RTC chip itself might need replacing.
The oscillator is the crystal right? Would it affect anything else? Or might I notice other problems?
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Old 03 September 2020, 21:40   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarmon View Post
Either the RTC caps or oscillator may need replacing or the RTC chip itself might need replacing.
How does that work though? The RTC is read when startup-sequence is executed with setclock load. After that, the OS does not look at the RTC chip while it's running.

rabidgerry, one thing to try: boot with no startup-sequence, start sys:utilities/clock from the initial cli, see if it runs at the correct speed
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Old 03 September 2020, 22:08   #7
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Ok will try this.

Might be a stupid question but wont it run at the right time when the Amiga is switched on?

I meant to say in my original post that it starts to run slow when I power off. So I set the time when on ad it's ok apart from the scalos clock in title bar. The scalos one remains frozen.

Then when I check clock in utilities is it is ticking away. But when I power down it will start slipping behind the longer I leave it.
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Old 03 September 2020, 23:41   #8
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I read the post as the clock being 'slow' in the sense that it was losing time, or falling behind in time. If you turn off the Amiga, the RTC will keep working since it will be powered by the battery, but is still losing time. So when you next turn on the Amiga, the system clock will be set to this slower time.
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Old 04 September 2020, 00:03   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
Ok will try this.

Might be a stupid question but wont it run at the right time when the Amiga is switched on?

I meant to say in my original post that it starts to run slow when I power off. So I set the time when on ad it's ok apart from the scalos clock in title bar. The scalos one remains frozen.

Then when I check clock in utilities is it is ticking away. But when I power down it will start slipping behind the longer I leave it.
Get a hammer, and give it a light tap just like this.
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Old 04 September 2020, 01:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarmon View Post
I read the post as the clock being 'slow' in the sense that it was losing time, or falling behind in time. If you turn off the Amiga, the RTC will keep working since it will be powered by the battery, but is still losing time. So when you next turn on the Amiga, the system clock will be set to this slower time.
Yes so the current situation seems to be, I set the time whilst the Amiga is on. But then I turn it off it falls behind.

A separate issue would be, that the title bar of scalos which has the clock normally displayed, well it has frozen completely.

I will try what jope said and also Paul1981 and boot using disks then that way I'm not using my hard drive just to see if I can rule out the software side of things.

Yes lots of
a bit of
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Old 04 September 2020, 07:41   #11
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Wow. My internal parser totally failed with the original post.

I latched on to you saying your clock runs too slow when you're booted into scalos, which is a CIA problem. But now I take it your RTC also doesn't tick when you power off the machine? Ok, do everything everyone recommended to debug it.
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Old 04 September 2020, 09:28   #12
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The RTC chip has a stop bit. If it is set the clock won't advance.

I don't know if the OS is aware of this bit, but anyway you can try

setclock reset

followed by

setclock save

in a shell window and see if it starts going again.

I also have a program RestartClock which blindly overwrites the whole address area of the clock with zeroes. This is brute force and might damage the chip (I wrote it when I was 16 years or so) but by accident it also resets the stop bit.
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Old 04 September 2020, 11:35   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas View Post
The RTC chip has a stop bit. If it is set the clock won't advance.

I don't know if the OS is aware of this bit, but anyway you can try

setclock reset

followed by

setclock save

in a shell window and see if it starts going again.

I also have a program RestartClock which blindly overwrites the whole address area of the clock with zeroes. This is brute force and might damage the chip (I wrote it when I was 16 years or so) but by accident it also resets the stop bit.
Beat you to it Thomas! I had an issue with RTC before and I downloaded your program then so I actually have tried all of that already to no avail

However there is a bit of progress today!

Well first thing this morning I booted up using OS 3.1.4 install disk as it was only install disk had kicking around. My hard drive was left in there so could still see those other drives) and tried the clock which I had left out. The time was correct!!!

Then I rebooted and took the disk out. The time was then wrong.

So I reset the time again, and left it an hour. I just booted again from install disk and the time was correct.

Now it isn't this straight forward as yesterday I put a RTC module and installed on the clockport of my Amiga. So this could be what is holding the time at least.

What I will do is remove this RTC module (which I knew worked) and then try the same test using the install disk again and see if the Apollo 1260 RTC is holding the time.
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Old 04 September 2020, 13:02   #14
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ok news just in, so I took out the RTC module which was installed on the clockport.

This left the Apollo 1260 solely by itself to provide time.

I booted the Amiga using install disk. I clicked on the clock and the time appears to correct!

So I dunno what that means other than it looks software related?? Possibly?
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Old 04 September 2020, 13:27   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
ok news just in, so I took out the RTC module which was installed on the clockport.

This left the Apollo 1260 solely by itself to provide time.

I booted the Amiga using install disk. I clicked on the clock and the time appears to correct!

So I dunno what that means other than it looks software related?? Possibly?
You can certainly confirm that by just cold booting with your Install disk every hour and see if it keeps keeping time. Don't reboot into your hard drive in-between though!

I've never used Scalos but I wonder if it's Scalos that doesn't like your clock. Anyway, stick to the test for now.
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Old 04 September 2020, 14:44   #16
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Testing again here now.
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Old 04 September 2020, 15:02   #17
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Seems to be holding it. However I set it a little more accurate to my phone. So it's like 13 seconds faster than my phone currently. Lets see what it is like in half an hour.
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Old 05 September 2020, 11:45   #18
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Well it seems as though the Apollo RTC then is holding time and date but slipping behind slowly so therefore going further and further out gradually. No idea why though since it's not the battery anymore. I know the old battery was only giving me like under 1v on the multimeter.
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Old 05 September 2020, 11:59   #19
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There might be a resistor or potentiometer somewhere which can adjust the clock speed. I don't know details but I remember having read something like this in other threads about RTC issues.
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Old 05 September 2020, 21:44   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas View Post
There might be a resistor or potentiometer somewhere which can adjust the clock speed. I don't know details but I remember having read something like this in other threads about RTC issues.
Been having a look, can't see anything that looks adjustable myself.

As a side issue, I returned my ACA1233n-40 into my Amiga this afternoon to take the Apollo out for inspection etc and would you believe the Title clock in scalos is still frozen.

Now this is a shock simply because it was working before.
However If I click on the clock from utilities the clock time was correct as my ACA card has an RTF fitted and this RTC keeps time without any problems.

So I find it weird that the Apollo runs slow and I find it weirder scalos plug in title clock has frozen. Works perfectly fine in WINUAE so I dunno wtf is going here
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