Toki - A "pixel perfect" conversion?

[Peanutuk]

Would anyone who has spent anytime playing both the arcade and Amiga versions of Toki agree that the Amiga conversion was "pixel perfect"?

[Bamiga2002]

Amiga version is a nice conversion, more playable IMO (read: easier ). But it's not "pixel perfect", you can clearly see differences when comparing them. The arcade version looks more polished in-game, but the intro sequence is better on Amiga

[Peanutuk]

So is it just graphically not upto scratch or are there playability differences?

[FromWithin]

Why don't you try the arcade one with MAME?

[Shrub]

I seem to remember the arcade version running smoother than the Amiga one. Is that true?

[Avanze]

The Arcade version of any given video game should always be considered the de facto standard. Home console or computer releases often suffer unavoidable degradation in graphic / sound due to hardware restrictions.

[Shrub]

I wonder how many games have home versions that are superior to the arcade originals.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by Shrub

I wonder how many games have home versions that are superior to the arcade originals.

Nice one, I'd go for Outrun Amiga. .... How about Marble Madness, haven't actually played the arcade, only MAME, but the Amiga version is stunning.

[Shrub]

I'd say Bubble Bobble on the Master System. It suffers slow down but it looks a lot better and it's easier using a button to jump instead of pressing up. I'm probably the only person in the world who doesn't get the appeal of Outrun lol

[Codetapper]

Pang on the Amiga is more slick and plays a lot better than the arcade version. Amiga Rainbow Islands is also better than the arcade imho...

On the C64 I always liked Gryzor - different levels than the Contra arcade and a much better difficulty level. C64 Ghosts'n'Goblins is also more playable than the arcade version. The Amiga version of Ghosts'n'Goblins is extremely faithful to the arcade too - but that makes it too hard and it has annoying slowdowns.

[Bamiga2002]

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

So is it just graphically not upto scratch or are there playability differences?

As i tried to say, graphics are quite close to the arcade version, but then again, amiga version is a bit easier, though the arcade version has smoother scrolling.

I think the ape is thinner on Amiga , but not in the intro sequence.

[manicx]

Originally Posted by Shrub

I wonder how many games have home versions that are superior to the arcade originals.

Rodland is on top of my list.

[Peanutuk]

Ah, Rodland a true gem! Isn't odd that there are so many great games for the Amiga that just happen to be arcade conversions of co-op's I'd never heard of? How big were games like Rodland, Toki, Rainbow Islands, and the New Zealand story before the home conversions came about? Whilst huge hits like Chase HQ or Hard DRivin' were dire conversions.

[MSC]

Has to be Rainbow Islands for me. Just one of THE best games ever IMHO.

Strange thing is, there seems to be a love it or hate it thing with this game.

I only ever found it in the arcades once, and remember thinking how good the Amiga version is in comparison.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by manicx

Rodland is on top of my list.

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

Ah, Rodland a true gem!

Originally Posted by MSC

Has to be Rainbow Islands for me. Just one of THE best games ever IMHO.

Same here, both are just perfect. Dragon Breed is a cool conversion too.

[plasmatron]

I really love the AMIGA conversion of MERCS.
I know that it don`t got big ratings from the press.
But I totally love it.

[spiff]

Toki isn't pixle perfect. The arcade has better (double the) framerate, more playfield visible, the main sprite is a bit off and missing a couple of enemies as well.
How ever for a conversion of a relative “new” arcade game its one of the best. Gameplay pretty much 100% intact. Rainbow islands and marble madness are both of older hardware.

Rainbow islands a better game on amiga?? noway! Amiga is a good graphical conversion, but it runs on half the framerate, same thing for GnG, golden axe, R-type and so on for just about any arcade conversion.

Some of the problems can be blamed on the fact that most arcades ran at 60hz, 50hz PAL will never be the same. But most of it is just down to the fact that amiga just can't scroll for sh*t.* Probably thats why pang and rodland works so great.


And that’s not even touching the omfgcrap Ocean conversions that didn’t even look like the arcade, much less played anywhere like it.

Strider on the megadrive/genesis. Now that’s what I call a conversion!

Some argue that Silkworm runs better on amiga then arcade, not shure myself

*ok superfrog does somehow scroll 64 colours smooth in eight directions! To bad that engine wasn't used for any arcade conversions.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by spiff

Rainbow islands a better game on amiga?? noway! Amiga is a good graphical conversion, but it runs on half the framerate, same thing for GnG, golden axe, R-type and so on for just about any arcade conversion.

Big deal. The Amiga version of Rainbow Islands plays better than the arcade, end of story.

I suppose you also think Speedball 2 is shit because it's only displaying 25 frames per second? F/A-18 Interceptor runs at about 5 frames per second - that must be utter crap too then according to you?

But most of it is just down to the fact that amiga just can't scroll for sh*t.*

The original Atari ST can't scroll for shit - the Amiga can. It has built in support for horizontal hardware scrolling and vertical scrolling is done in various ways by coders. It is pretty easy to make a smooth scrolling game on the Amiga.

Probably thats why pang and rodland works so great.

Rodland "works great" because it is a simple 16 colour game and the screen is only 256 x 256 pixels (from memory). The score panel on the right are simply sprites overlaid. Keeping a small static screen with only 16 colours running at 50Hz is easy.

Pang "works great" because Pierre Adane and the graphics artist did a brilliant job - simple. You wouldn't appreciate the hardware tricks used to display the game (palette changes down the screen to create 3 settings for each picture, keeping the background graphics in the first 4 bitplanes and all moving objects use all 5 bitplanes).

And that’s not even touching the omfgcrap Ocean conversions that didn’t even look like the arcade, much less played anywhere like it.

Such as? Don't forget Ocean have done many fine arcade conversions aswell - Midnight Resistance, New Zealand Story, Operation Thunderbolt, Pang, Puzznic...

Some argue that Silkworm runs better on amiga then arcade, not shure myself

If you've never played them to compare, why even mention it?

*ok superfrog does somehow scroll 64 colours smooth in eight directions! To bad that engine wasn't used for any arcade conversions.

This shows your blissful ignorance. Superfrog does not scroll 64 colours at all. The game uses 5 bitplanes for the main action so 32 colours. It can run at 50Hz because the main character is multiple sprites which costs nothing in terms of CPU to display. There are no parallax layers or enormous enemies - it's just an exceptionally well written scrolling game.

[spiff]

Ok, I'll bite

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Big deal. The Amiga version of Rainbow Islands plays better than the arcade, end of story.

I suppose you also think Speedball 2 is shit because it's only displaying 25 frames per second? F/A-18 Interceptor runs at about 5 frames per second - that must be utter crap too then according to you?

I wouldn't call them crap, just that they do not play better then the version running smoother. Now if I've missed something such as the fact that removing minor things from the game and lowering both res and framerate is "plays better" then by all means, yes I'm wrong on all the games

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Rodland "works great" because it is a simple 16 colour game and the screen is only 256 x 256 pixels (from memory). The score panel on the right are simply sprites overlaid. Keeping a small static screen with only 16 colours running at 50Hz is easy.

Pang "works great" because Pierre Adane and the graphics artist did a brilliant job - simple. You wouldn't appreciate the hardware tricks used to display the game (palette changes down the screen to create 3 settings for each picture, keeping the background graphics in the first 4 bitplanes and all moving objects use all 5 bitplanes).

Not before you said anything,no, more that they played and looked more like the arcade versions then other games in this thread.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Such as? Don't forget Ocean have done many fine arcade conversions aswell - Midnight Resistance, New Zealand Story, Operation Thunderbolt, Pang, Puzznic...

Ok, fair enough I'm missing the point when I'm dragging in good/bad instead of better, Ocean was a publisher and had both good and bad games. Quick hol check for Ghouls 'N Ghosts and Strider, I was probably thinking of US gold. Same argument can be said about them however.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

If you've never played them to compare, why even mention it?

I've played both, I'm not just shure wich one I like best at the time, the PCB was a bootleg.

[gimbal]

Tried some arcade versions of Amiga games I owned (through MAME).

Toki - arcade version is quite cool, but the Amiga version has better music (IMO). Also I couldn't beat the first boss... the Amiga version was just a question of mashing the fire button and he died without a problem, but the arcade version boss has more moves. I Can't seem to dodge his jumps! I hate one-hit-kills-you games, especially when they are also of the you-have-to-repeat-a-part-of-the-level type...

Turbo Outrun - the speed of the arcade version is just insane, unplayable. Also the amiga version had better music.

Strider - arcade version is actually quite fun. No annoying sounds, smooth playability, more spots to hook onto and neat graphics. But I hate the respawning enemies, I don't see a need for that in a left-to-right platformer.

Wonderboy In Monsterland - Amiga version is way better, but the arcade version has more variation in the monsters, and the bosses have a more difficult pattern. I got my ass kicked by the jumping one on the third level, which I beat with one hand behind my back on the Amiga.

Thunderblade - less hard than the amiga version, but it is still to boring.

Final Fight - arcade version is even better than the snes version IMO.

Mortal Kombat 1 & 2- arcade version has okay graphics and sound, but the computer is very fast. I didn't see a way to set the difficulty either. PC version of MK1 and snes version of MK2 still rule IMO.

Double Dragon 2 - piece of shit. Amiga version was the best.

Vindicators - arcade version has more variation in enemies and plays a lot smoother, amiga version has better music and sounds, and the pickups are placed a little better (fx. more fuel pickups).

Silkworm - yuck! Amiga version rules in all ways!