Why was there only a little music in the Amiga version of Monkey Island 2?

mc68060 · 04 May 2018, 15:14

Was there ever any official explanation by LucasArts as to why lots of music from the original soundtrack had been cut from the Amiga version of Monkey Island 2? Was it to save disk space or to minimize disk swapping or was the quirky iMUSE system just too expensive to handle for a plain A500 at that time?

As far as I'm concerned I'd really have preferred if they had converted the Monkey Island 2 soundtrack to TFMX for the Amiga as they had done in Monkey Island 1. The TFMX soundtrack of Monkey 1 on the Amiga is really outstanding and quirky iMUSE is a step back from Monkey 1 IMHO. So although the graphics of Monkey 2 are of course superior to Monkey 1, the music definitely isn't.

When Monkey 2 came out and LucasArts and some PC reviewers were raving about the "revolutionary" iMUSE sound system I really didn't understand what the fuzz was all about because I thought Monkey 1's music (without iMUSE!) was so much better. So who needs iMUSE when you can have TFMX anyway?

Foebane · 04 May 2018, 16:19

Isn't iMUSE MIDI? I would guess that back in the early days of PC sound, MIDI was easier to implement and utilise across the primitive sound cards at the time, and they looked down their noses at the more "natural" Amiga sound (ie. samples), probably because sometimes they sounded "noisy" what with low sample rates and low sample quality.

Amiga1992 · 04 May 2018, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

Isn't iMUSE MIDI?

No.
It's a music driver that, if I understand correctly, mixes between different songs, so you are supposed to have a constant flow of matched-to-the-action music.
(MIDI by the way is a language for music machines to talk to one another, so it's also wrong to consider it a "format", and definitely isn't "easier to implement", and it has nothing to do with the sound the machine creates. Early PC soundcards just had FM-based tone generators, that's all. MIDI has nothing to do with it)

iMUSE was implemented in Indiana Jones And The Fate Of Atlantis on Amiga, but maybe when MI2 came out it wasn't quite ready yet.

kgc210 · 04 May 2018, 20:45

I would say media cost?
It already came on 11 disks? Can't remember exactly off top of my head.

Amiga1992 · 04 May 2018, 21:09

But Indy4 had iMuse and also came in the same amount of disks.

Seiya · 05 May 2018, 01:49

Indy4 on Amiga has very limited iMuse because Due to memory space, there is problem with sampled instruments and music go in loop.
iMuse is not only background music, but also dynamic music and sound effets that change in base of action and in base on what are doing in that moment the various
characters.
On Amiga you have very few music in loop and no sound effetcs.

mc68060 · 05 May 2018, 12:01

Still it feels strange that they decided to cut so much music from the beginning of the game. For example, right after the intro when Guybrush is sitting next to the pirates' camp fire at Scabb Island beach and is telling them his story, there is no music. The iconic "Scabb Island Fire" music has been cut. See here what it sounds like in the original:
[ Show youtube player ] It's beautiful.

From a marketing point of view, it would have made much more sense to cut music later in the game and leave the beginning as attractive as possible. It seems really strange that they decided to cut so much music right from the beginning.

lordofchaos · 05 May 2018, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc68060

From a marketing point of view, it would have made much more sense to cut music later in the game and leave the beginning as attractive as possible. It seems really strange that they decided to cut so much music right from the beginning.

Money. Time. Amiga version....less sales, ton o disks, no HD as standard.. Quite surprised we even got a port to be honest.

trixster · 05 May 2018, 14:20

I agree with lordofchaos, I'm just pleased we got MI2 and FoA, even if the 11 disk juggle was a pain at the time. When I first played the PC version I was really quite surprised about all the extra music and it wasn't until then that I realised how quiet the Amiga version is. The music, like MI1, is still beautifully done though.

MI2 on an A500 with HD is still pretty sluggish but it works. On an A1200 with extra ram and an HD it's a great experience. And I think the graphics were very nicely done. Unless you're familiar with the PC version it's difficult to really notice the little incidentals that were left out.

The best way to play MI2 on an Amiga these days is through ScummVM with an MT-32 attached. But then, that's not really an Amiga is it!

Mrz · 05 May 2018, 19:15

The Amiga version of MI2 is not really bad but inferior to the PC DOS in such time
lack of colors,lack lot of music and lack lot of sound fx too

fact is that all point and click adventures were better on the PC because the posibility of 256 colors, high resolution etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

The best way to play MI2 on an Amiga these days is through ScummVM with an MT-32 attached. But then, that's not really an Amiga is it!

I don't think so
the best way to play MI2 these days is the SE edition

[ Show youtube player ]

btw

in the PC DOS version the MT32 option offers refined music but you lost some soundFX during game which are in the soundblaster option

Seiya · 05 May 2018, 20:43

Amiga MI2 has only 10% of music than DOS version for save space on disk. The DOS was based on MIDI and Amiga MOD modeled on this MIDI required wavetable ad hoc that
required many space on disk.
Maybe if FoA and MI2 was released on 15 disk iMuse was complete also on Amiga, but play form floppy it was impossibile.

Amiga versions have an HD installer so thay could include all music and sound effects packet and available only for harddisk only users. Maybe 15 disks for sure.

Higgy · 06 May 2018, 20:04

I am glad that it was not just me that was a little disappointed (only with sound), all the talk of iMUSE and I remember thinking what is so special! Others like Loom seemed better.

Without having access to a WinPC at the time I did not know what I was missing.

Seiya · 06 May 2018, 20:29

the first time that i played to FoA and MI2 i didn't know the DOS version so i thought is normal. Only some years after i saw how many these amiga versions are cutted from original.

mc68060 · 06 May 2018, 22:46

They should've just ditched iMUSE for the Amiga altogether and come up with something that is not as space expensive as iMUSE for the Amiga. Even though there are only few iMUSE tunes on the Amiga, they seem to take a lot of space. Just look at the *.ims files in MI2...

lordofchaos · 06 May 2018, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc68060

They should've just ditched iMUSE for the Amiga altogether and come up with something that is not as space expensive as iMUSE for the Amiga. Even though there are only few iMUSE tunes on the Amiga, they seem to take a lot of space. Just look at the *.ims files in MI2...

Might have added further development time and cost.. I thought the iMUSE system worked really with M.I.2 Amiga, especially considering the limit of 4 channels.. The main limiting factor being disk space and RAM.. The songs that are there, sound quite brilliant.

Seiya · 07 May 2018, 01:36

yes, but there is only 10% of original musics, samples and sound effetcs

Foebane · 07 May 2018, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

No.
It's a music driver that, if I understand correctly, mixes between different songs, so you are supposed to have a constant flow of matched-to-the-action music.
(MIDI by the way is a language for music machines to talk to one another, so it's also wrong to consider it a "format", and definitely isn't "easier to implement", and it has nothing to do with the sound the machine creates. Early PC soundcards just had FM-based tone generators, that's all. MIDI has nothing to do with it)

iMUSE was implemented in Indiana Jones And The Fate Of Atlantis on Amiga, but maybe when MI2 came out it wasn't quite ready yet.

Yep, you're right. I looked up iMuse AFTER I posted above.

Seiya · 07 May 2018, 10:07

MI2 has been the first game to use iMuse and then used in any LucasArts Adventures (Amiga included, but very limited because there are no enough space on DD disks).

mc68060 · 07 May 2018, 16:36

Quote:

Might have added further development time and cost

But it already took them like 6 months or so to make the Amiga port. That's quite much for just reducing the palette from 256 to 32 colors ;-)

Anyway, it's sad that they didn't release a CDTV version with full iMUSE soundtrack. AFAIR Loom and Indiana Jones 3 were released on the CDTV as well. They could've released Monkey 2 on the CDTV with full iMUSE soundtrack. That would've been great.

Seiya · 07 May 2018, 19:54

many of you maybe don't know that Amiga version of MI2 e FoA have more than 32 colors thank to Copper and "Palette Switching"
During the Gameplay where is present inventory the colors are from 40 to 55.

Maybe iMuse is very limited, but from graphics point of view they have done good work.

04 May 2018, 15:14	#1
mc68060 With MMU and FPU! Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: On your mainboard Posts: 270	Why was there only a little music in the Amiga version of Monkey Island 2? Was there ever any official explanation by LucasArts as to why lots of music from the original soundtrack had been cut from the Amiga version of Monkey Island 2? Was it to save disk space or to minimize disk swapping or was the quirky iMUSE system just too expensive to handle for a plain A500 at that time? As far as I'm concerned I'd really have preferred if they had converted the Monkey Island 2 soundtrack to TFMX for the Amiga as they had done in Monkey Island 1. The TFMX soundtrack of Monkey 1 on the Amiga is really outstanding and quirky iMUSE is a step back from Monkey 1 IMHO. So although the graphics of Monkey 2 are of course superior to Monkey 1, the music definitely isn't. When Monkey 2 came out and LucasArts and some PC reviewers were raving about the "revolutionary" iMUSE sound system I really didn't understand what the fuzz was all about because I thought Monkey 1's music (without iMUSE!) was so much better. So who needs iMUSE when you can have TFMX anyway?

05 May 2018, 01:49	#6
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	Indy4 on Amiga has very limited iMuse because Due to memory space, there is problem with sampled instruments and music go in loop. iMuse is not only background music, but also dynamic music and sound effets that change in base of action and in base on what are doing in that moment the various characters. On Amiga you have very few music in loop and no sound effetcs. Last edited by Seiya; 05 May 2018 at 02:07.

05 May 2018, 20:43	#11
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	Amiga MI2 has only 10% of music than DOS version for save space on disk. The DOS was based on MIDI and Amiga MOD modeled on this MIDI required wavetable ad hoc that required many space on disk. Maybe if FoA and MI2 was released on 15 disk iMuse was complete also on Amiga, but play form floppy it was impossibile. Amiga versions have an HD installer so thay could include all music and sound effects packet and available only for harddisk only users. Maybe 15 disks for sure. Last edited by Seiya; 05 May 2018 at 21:47.

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04 May 2018, 16:19	#2
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	Isn't iMUSE MIDI? I would guess that back in the early days of PC sound, MIDI was easier to implement and utilise across the primitive sound cards at the time, and they looked down their noses at the more "natural" Amiga sound (ie. samples), probably because sometimes they sounded "noisy" what with low sample rates and low sample quality.

04 May 2018, 20:45	#4
kgc210 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England Posts: 450	I would say media cost? It already came on 11 disks? Can't remember exactly off top of my head.

04 May 2018, 21:09	#5
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	But Indy4 had iMuse and also came in the same amount of disks.

05 May 2018, 12:01	#7
mc68060 With MMU and FPU! Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: On your mainboard Posts: 270	Still it feels strange that they decided to cut so much music from the beginning of the game. For example, right after the intro when Guybrush is sitting next to the pirates' camp fire at Scabb Island beach and is telling them his story, there is no music. The iconic "Scabb Island Fire" music has been cut. See here what it sounds like in the original: [ Show youtube player ] It's beautiful. From a marketing point of view, it would have made much more sense to cut music later in the game and leave the beginning as attractive as possible. It seems really strange that they decided to cut so much music right from the beginning.

05 May 2018, 14:20	#9
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	I agree with lordofchaos, I'm just pleased we got MI2 and FoA, even if the 11 disk juggle was a pain at the time. When I first played the PC version I was really quite surprised about all the extra music and it wasn't until then that I realised how quiet the Amiga version is. The music, like MI1, is still beautifully done though. MI2 on an A500 with HD is still pretty sluggish but it works. On an A1200 with extra ram and an HD it's a great experience. And I think the graphics were very nicely done. Unless you're familiar with the PC version it's difficult to really notice the little incidentals that were left out. The best way to play MI2 on an Amiga these days is through ScummVM with an MT-32 attached. But then, that's not really an Amiga is it!

06 May 2018, 20:04	#12
Higgy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 547	I am glad that it was not just me that was a little disappointed (only with sound), all the talk of iMUSE and I remember thinking what is so special! Others like Loom seemed better. Without having access to a WinPC at the time I did not know what I was missing.

06 May 2018, 20:29	#13
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	the first time that i played to FoA and MI2 i didn't know the DOS version so i thought is normal. Only some years after i saw how many these amiga versions are cutted from original.

06 May 2018, 22:46	#14
mc68060 With MMU and FPU! Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: On your mainboard Posts: 270	They should've just ditched iMUSE for the Amiga altogether and come up with something that is not as space expensive as iMUSE for the Amiga. Even though there are only few iMUSE tunes on the Amiga, they seem to take a lot of space. Just look at the *.ims files in MI2...

07 May 2018, 01:36	#16
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	yes, but there is only 10% of original musics, samples and sound effetcs

07 May 2018, 10:07	#18
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	MI2 has been the first game to use iMuse and then used in any LucasArts Adventures (Amiga included, but very limited because there are no enough space on DD disks).

07 May 2018, 19:54	#20
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	many of you maybe don't know that Amiga version of MI2 e FoA have more than 32 colors thank to Copper and "Palette Switching" During the Gameplay where is present inventory the colors are from 40 to 55. Maybe iMuse is very limited, but from graphics point of view they have done good work.

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