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Old 15 October 2018, 21:37   #1
Mstone
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Want to use multiple drives in amiga 1200

Hello, I have an a1200 with 40mb original hard drive. I would like to add a cf to ide drive as the main drive, and have it be large by the amiga's standards, an SD to IDE adapter as a drive that can have the SD card be unplugged to transfer files, and a CD ROM drive. I would like assistance with figuring this out. I have a parallel port CD rom drive, and was wondering if I could find any drivers for that? That would be easier than internal. I do not want to put anything on the PCMCIA port, as i want to use that for a network card. I would like to keep the old hard drive in use, but make it not the number one priority to boot from. I will be copying what is on it onto a partition on the new cf card just as a back up of that anyway. Do I need the 4XEIDE'99 buffered interface from amigakit to do this? There would be 3 drives total if I use my parallel port cd rom drive. I would make the cf card the master first bootable priority drive.
I would like to make as few alterations to the original case as possible also. A slot or hole for a cable for the sd card adapter is the the only one I would accept. Best would be just a slot for the sd card so i can reach it without opening the case. Thank you!
As of yet, I have workbench 2.1 on there and no way to change it or install a network card or config utility for an indivision mk2, or any way to move software. So thanks for any help!

Last edited by Mstone; 15 October 2018 at 21:43.
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Old 15 October 2018, 22:20   #2
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I'm not aware of any parallel port drivers for CD-ROMs, so I don't think that's an option. Also, some CF cards don't play nicely with other devices on the bus, and some old 2.5" hard drives have a similar issue, so there are no guarantees you'll be able to run both drives at the same time. A 4-way buffered interface probably gives you the best chance of succeeding though...
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Old 15 October 2018, 23:20   #3
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I'm not aware of any parallel port drivers for CD-ROMs, so I don't think that's an option. Also, some CF cards don't play nicely with other devices on the bus, and some old 2.5" hard drives have a similar issue, so there are no guarantees you'll be able to run both drives at the same time. A 4-way buffered interface probably gives you the best chance of succeeding though...
Hmm I know from reading that some cf cards do not like to be set as slave but work as master, which is what I was going to do anyway. And the only reason I really needed the cd rom drive was to install workbench 3.9. Can that only be installed through cd? That is what the website said. Other than that I dont think i would ever use it to be honest. Is there any other way to install it? Like by putting the installer on the sd card and installing it onto the cf card?
Also the old 2.5 in hard drive isn't that necessary. I just wanted it for the sound of the original hard drive, as long as I can make a copy of it onto a partition on the cf card main drive. Can I do that?
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Old 16 October 2018, 01:13   #4
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Hmm I know from reading that some cf cards do not like to be set as slave but work as master, which is what I was going to do anyway.
Yep, but also some CF cards assume they're the only device attached, and so won't work with a drive even if it is otherwise correctly configured (some old HDs also had separate jumper configurations for master with slave and master without slave).

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And the only reason I really needed the cd rom drive was to install workbench 3.9. Can that only be installed through cd? That is what the website said. Other than that I dont think i would ever use it to be honest. Is there any other way to install it? Like by putting the installer on the sd card and installing it onto the cf card?
I'm fairly sure you can install it from any Amiga-formatted medium, but other options do exist. For example, you could mount the ISO on the Amiga with ImageMount and install from there (the CF card would already have to be installed and formatted for that option), or you could use a CF card reader on the PC to set the drive up using WinUAE and either the physical CD in the PC's CD drive, or an ISO image. There are plenty of guides around for that.

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Also the old 2.5 in hard drive isn't that necessary. I just wanted it for the sound of the original hard drive, as long as I can make a copy of it onto a partition on the cf card main drive. Can I do that?
You could do that through your PC if you get a 44-pin IDE-USB adaptor. WinUAE can read the drive and let you copy files on and off.
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Old 16 October 2018, 02:09   #5
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this is what you want
http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_GB/p/Fas...K-V-CFSATA/629
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Old 16 October 2018, 03:59   #6
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Yep, but also some CF cards assume they're the only device attached, and so won't work with a drive even if it is otherwise correctly configured (some old HDs also had separate jumper configurations for master with slave and master without slave).
Oh I see. So do you know of any cf cards that have been proven to work as a flexible master-slave setup? Also, do SD cards ave this problem as well?

I'm fairly sure you can install it from any Amiga-formatted medium, but other options do exist. For example, you could mount the ISO on the Amiga with ImageMount and install from there (the CF card would already have to be installed and formatted for that option), or you could use a CF card reader on the PC to set the drive up using WinUAE and either the physical CD in the PC's CD drive, or an ISO image. There are plenty of guides around for that.
Oh okay that sounds doable. I have a computer with WinUAE and a reader, but I have not used it in years. The best would be to put the ISO image onto the SD card, boot from that, and then install it on the cf card.



You could do that through your PC if you get a 44-pin IDE-USB adaptor. WinUAE can read the drive and let you copy files on and off.
And oh! Interesting! I have one of those, a very cheap one, but it does work. Can you just copy the entire partition as a whole?
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Old 16 October 2018, 04:16   #7
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My bad, I didnt realize the quotes would do that lol.
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Old 16 October 2018, 06:09   #8
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Thank you or the suggestion! I found the same item on amiga kit for just a hair cheaper, but it is an expensive, but cool option. What I don't understand is does it come with SATA ports on it. Also, I ust watched a video on it that did not give it a good review in its design, especially if you use an Indivision mk2 which I plan on using. It makes it not fit well. I think I will be going with the 4xEIDE buffered interface. But thank you!
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Old 16 October 2018, 06:16   #9
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Oh my gosh! I just realized the 4x ide device has an extra 2.5 in 44pin IDE connector on its backside, so I could still connect the original hard drive, along with a cf adapter, and an sd adapter, all on their own connectors. None would have to be master or slave then I am assuming. I also found that sd cards dont have the compatibility issues that cf does, but I want the speed of the cf fr the hard drive, but will have sd for the transfer medium from my computer. Now I just need to pick the fastest cf card and sd cards that I can use that also have a balance of large size.
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Old 16 October 2018, 10:48   #10
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You can only copy a partition from within WinUAE, as Windows doesn't understand the Amiga's disk format. But within WinUAE you can copy all the files off it to another partition on a different device, effectively ending up with an identical partition elsewhere. Alternatively, from the Windows side you can create an image of the entire drive and use that with WinUAE instead. Under Linux there's the dd tool for that but I'm sure Windows has many equivalents.

The extra 44-pin connector is in parallel with the first 40-pin connector on the front of the board, so that and the "primary" port count as effectively the same cable. So you still only have two interfaces, just one has a choice of which size to use.

SD cards might not be as fast as CF cards, but they're both faster than the Amiga can make use of, so speed shouldn't really be a deciding factor.
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Old 16 October 2018, 17:04   #11
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You can only copy a partition from within WinUAE, as Windows doesn't understand the Amiga's disk format. But within WinUAE you can copy all the files off it to another partition on a different device, effectively ending up with an identical partition elsewhere. Alternatively, from the Windows side you can create an image of the entire drive and use that with WinUAE instead. Under Linux there's the dd tool for that but I'm sure Windows has many equivalents.
Oh yeah i figured Windows wouldn't get it. Yeah I could do winUAE, or the actual Amiga, since I woll have all the connections for that. I was thinking of some software for it that anyone may know of that would back up an entire drive. As in make an exact copy. The win image idea is something I will have to look into.

Quote:
The extra 44-pin connector is in parallel with the first 40-pin connector on the front of the board, so that and the "primary" port count as effectively the same cable. So you still only have two interfaces, just one has a choice of which size to use.
Ohh, does that mean they have to be set up as master slave? If that is the case, then I will put the cf card on the secondary channel so it is by itself.

Quote:
SD cards might not be as fast as CF cards, but they're both faster than the Amiga can make use of, so speed shouldn't really be a deciding factor.
The SD card will be for file transfer only, rather than the internal hard drive, so i am not as worried about speed, as long as it is decent enough. And yes I agree. I picked cf card for internal hard drive because it seems more durable and because it is a bit faster I think.
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Old 16 October 2018, 17:41   #12
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If the SD card is for transfer only, have a look at getting a PCMCIA adaptor for it instead. That will let you hot-plug the card, which isn't possible on the internal IDE port.
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Old 16 October 2018, 18:59   #13
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If the SD card is for transfer only, have a look at getting a PCMCIA adaptor for it instead. That will let you hot-plug the card, which isn't possible on the internal IDE port.
Wait so you are saying that i could not take out or put in the sd card while the computer is running if it is plugged into an adapter? Wouldn't it only matter if you were to unplug the adapter and plug it back in?
And if I did do ththe pcmcia adapter, would I be able to unplug that while the computer is running and put in a network card, or the other way around? I would like to be able to just leave the network card there
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Old 16 October 2018, 20:17   #14
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I just realized that this SD card adapter does nit have any jumpers, and so I would assume no way to set it as a slave drive. It is the only type available that I see that is 3 5 inch. https://www.ebay.com/itm/IDE-to-SD-S...C/283200431724

However, this cf card adapter has jumpers to set it as master or slave, so I think that would work so long as the particular card is okay with being slave drive.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Syba-IDE-to...t/361132774205
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Old 16 October 2018, 21:14   #15
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A 4-way buffered interface probably gives you the best chance of succeeding though...
A while ago I wanted to have two SDHC adapters in the amiga, one for the main HD, and one for transfering data. I'd mount the second one in such a way as the card was accessible from outside the case.

The problem is these cheap ones, as you say, dont play well together.

What would a buffered 4-way interface do to help in this situation, as far as you're aware? Would it allow both devices to be 'master'? I don't think it would solve the issue, would it?

Like you say, maybe CF to PCMCIA is better for data transfer. I just liked the idea of utilising a second IDE device.
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Old 16 October 2018, 21:15   #16
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I just realized that this SD card adapter does nit have any jumpers, and so I would assume no way to set it as a slave drive. It is the only type available that I see that is 3 5 inch. https://www.ebay.com/itm/IDE-to-SD-S...C/283200431724

However, this cf card adapter has jumpers to set it as master or slave, so I think that would work so long as the particular card is okay with being slave drive.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Syba-IDE-to...t/361132774205
These are both 40 pin IDE, which i'm sure you realise, yeah?

Doesn't the A1200 have the same 44 pin IDE male 'socket' as the A600?

EDIT: I guess you'd be using the aforementioned buffer with the 40 pin channel in parallel with the 44?
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Old 16 October 2018, 22:56   #17
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What would a buffered 4-way interface do to help in this situation, as far as you're aware? Would it allow both devices to be 'master'? I don't think it would solve the issue, would it?
Again, it depends on the cards (or the adaptor in the case of SD cards). But it's more likely to work on a 4-way adaptor because each device is addressed as if it was the only attached device. But it can still cause problems if it does something silly like tie down bus or control lines that a normal hard drive would "detach" from when not in use.


Quote:
Like you say, maybe CF to PCMCIA is better for data transfer. I just liked the idea of utilising a second IDE device.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I use PCMCIA all the time for doing transfers, and it works very well because you can hot-plug - it essentially works like a USB flash drive. Drives connected via IDE can't be hot-plugged unless they're attached using an intelligent controller that does ATAPI stuff, like a Zip drive of optical drive would do. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any adaptors for CF and SD that do this.
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Old 16 October 2018, 23:37   #18
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i have iomega pocketzip/clik! 40MB PCMCIA floppy drives i havent tested yet on A1200
they are ATA devices
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Old 17 October 2018, 00:37   #19
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These are both 40 pin IDE, which i'm sure you realise, yeah?

Doesn't the A1200 have the same 44 pin IDE male 'socket' as the A600?

EDIT: I guess you'd be using the aforementioned buffer with the 40 pin channel in parallel with the 44?
Yes, I was planning to use the 4 ide buffered interface which has 40 pin connectors.
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Old 17 October 2018, 01:32   #20
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If it isnt hot swappable, I dont think it is that big of a deal. I can just unplug it, or plug it in when the computer is off. And if the computer needs files when its on, I could just use a floppy disk or transfer it over the network.
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