Apidya - Inaccessible bonus stage (Speed of Light) FOUND! - Page 3

Retro-Nerd · 18 February 2008, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vroom6sri

Mr KillerGorilla, Sir... Will this be featuring as an update in your current "A" pack any time soon? I've got the old WHDload from your site but this patch seems to want the disk images to install which I don't have. Doh!

girvnet is good for you.

http://www.girv.net/amiga/patching/girv-whdload/a.html

girv · 19 February 2008, 00:58

You can copy the Apidya.slave from the new patch into an old install dir, it should work fine.

girv · 19 February 2008, 08:16

Can you spot the point where the Apidya news broke?

cai24 · 19 February 2008, 09:06

Good one girv!

By the way, it was not uncommon for developers doing mistakes like that as the crunch periods for many games were so intense that people were on the verge of collapsing during the point of final days.. so they often made mistakes and found out only after the game had shipped.

In elfmania, there's a whole unused sequence of animation for every character that's still on the disk but not used in the game because during the last 4-week stretch, the main coder savi.k.a had slept only 3-4 hours for every 12-20 hours..and thus was so tired and dizzy that he simply forgot to activate it. They only found out when we had the first shipment and I was testing it. Stavros was pissed off to say the least

The missing animation is basically the second 'dizzy' animation which activates when character has taken enough hits (their head lulls around and eyes look comical). It was in the beta version but not in the game. I know only because I playtested it when I joined terramarque.

So if you are looking for next challenge, why not try to uncover this?

vroom6sri · 19 February 2008, 19:11

Thanks for the info, the help, the files and for fixing this.

I wish I had the talent and capability to fix these understandable glitches in the great amiga games of old. It certainly would seem to be a great project for consideration.

exoticaga · 20 February 2008, 02:09

I wonder how many more games can be found to have missing parts, not in original gameplay. A huge project to find and fix, with the amiga game list being so large.

Retroplay · 20 February 2008, 21:55

There's a total of 5 bonus levels right?
1. After blasting the caterpillar away and collecting the fat little angel at level 1.
2. After killing the mole you fly into the hill.
3. Inside the mouth of the big fish boss at level 2.
4. Inside the dead rat after you have killed the maggots.
5. The newly discovered Speed of Light stage.

My RAD drive and WinUAE is itching to record this.
I just want to be certain about all the bonus levels.

Anubis · 20 February 2008, 21:59

Me waiting for this video.

Graham Humphrey · 20 February 2008, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

2. After killing the mole you fly into the hill.

Believe it or not I was never aware of that one...

Retro-Nerd · 20 February 2008, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Believe it or not I was never aware of that one...

Me neither!

Graham Humphrey · 20 February 2008, 22:50

Phew - I thought I was the only one and would look a total fool - you'd all think I was living in a hill for the last 16 years

girv · 20 February 2008, 23:13

This site has details of all the bonus stages:

http://www.avians.net/~hawthorn/apidya/

Graham Humphrey · 20 February 2008, 23:19

That's a pretty cool site.

Retroplay · 20 February 2008, 23:32

There were another one afterall

Quote:

Amazingly, I was completely unaware of this bonus level for over a decade. Thanks to Dr S for pointing this one out!

Before you get to the lobster at the end of this level, you have to navigate a network of stone tunnels. If you take the uppermost tunnel and keep going, it eventually leads to a dead end. However, if you fly into the wall at the end of the tunnel, it takes you to a bonus stage!

It's not too exciting if you've already figured out the molehill, though, because it's exactly the same as the Underground bonus stage on Level 1, albeit with more pondish music.

I wonder if that's all of 'em.
Gotta have everything in the video.

Graham Humphrey · 20 February 2008, 23:33

Apidya seems to be the game that just keeps on giving.

Retro-Nerd · 20 February 2008, 23:33

Indeed, nice find girv.

Frog · 20 February 2008, 23:41

a good opportunity to play again to one of the best shoot'em up on amiga.

Thanks Girv

girv · 20 February 2008, 23:47

The thick plottens...

I've been having some email discussions with Peter Thierolf, the original coder of Apidya (I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!). Firstly, he is very honoured that people are still interested in his game after all this time! He's also been very helpful in finding and going through the source code to help with my debugging efforts, so snaps and/or props to him for that.

It turns out that the bug is more subtle than it seemed originally. The two values that I thought had been swapped are, in fact, correct. That much is obvious when you see the original commented source code, but not so clear from the disassembly and hex dumps I'd been working with up until now.

In swapping the two values around, what I've done is plugged the subgame activation code into the player bullets vs. scenery collision detection instead of the player vs. scenery collision detection, as it should be. The result is that the Speed Of Light subgame works if you fire at the right place on the level instead of flying into it.

Why the player vs. scenery code doesn't work as shipped is still a mystery, but I (with Peter's help) will continue to look into it to get a proper fix for the subgame.

Stay tuned!

Graham Humphrey · 20 February 2008, 23:50

Now my head hurts

Another interesting discovery.

girv · 21 February 2008, 00:00

Your head hurts!?

19 February 2008, 08:16	#43
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	Can you spot the point where the Apidya news broke? Attached Thumbnails

21 February 2008, 00:00	#60
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	Your head hurts!? Attached Thumbnails

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19 February 2008, 00:58	#42
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	You can copy the Apidya.slave from the new patch into an old install dir, it should work fine.

19 February 2008, 09:06	#44
cai24 Graphics Astronaut Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ziggurath Posts: 34	Good one girv! By the way, it was not uncommon for developers doing mistakes like that as the crunch periods for many games were so intense that people were on the verge of collapsing during the point of final days.. so they often made mistakes and found out only after the game had shipped. In elfmania, there's a whole unused sequence of animation for every character that's still on the disk but not used in the game because during the last 4-week stretch, the main coder savi.k.a had slept only 3-4 hours for every 12-20 hours..and thus was so tired and dizzy that he simply forgot to activate it. They only found out when we had the first shipment and I was testing it. Stavros was pissed off to say the least The missing animation is basically the second 'dizzy' animation which activates when character has taken enough hits (their head lulls around and eyes look comical). It was in the beta version but not in the game. I know only because I playtested it when I joined terramarque. So if you are looking for next challenge, why not try to uncover this?

19 February 2008, 19:11	#45
vroom6sri Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Peterborough Age: 47 Posts: 841	Thanks for the info, the help, the files and for fixing this. I wish I had the talent and capability to fix these understandable glitches in the great amiga games of old. It certainly would seem to be a great project for consideration.

20 February 2008, 02:09	#46
exoticaga Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 446	I wonder how many more games can be found to have missing parts, not in original gameplay. A huge project to find and fix, with the amiga game list being so large.

20 February 2008, 21:55	#47
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,079	There's a total of 5 bonus levels right? 1. After blasting the caterpillar away and collecting the fat little angel at level 1. 2. After killing the mole you fly into the hill. 3. Inside the mouth of the big fish boss at level 2. 4. Inside the dead rat after you have killed the maggots. 5. The newly discovered Speed of Light stage. My RAD drive and WinUAE is itching to record this. I just want to be certain about all the bonus levels.

20 February 2008, 21:59	#48
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,058	Me waiting for this video.

20 February 2008, 22:50	#51
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Phew - I thought I was the only one and would look a total fool - you'd all think I was living in a hill for the last 16 years

20 February 2008, 23:13	#52
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	This site has details of all the bonus stages: http://www.avians.net/~hawthorn/apidya/

20 February 2008, 23:19	#53
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	That's a pretty cool site.

20 February 2008, 23:33	#55
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Apidya seems to be the game that just keeps on giving.

20 February 2008, 23:33	#56
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Indeed, nice find girv.

20 February 2008, 23:41	#57
Frog Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,385	a good opportunity to play again to one of the best shoot'em up on amiga. Thanks Girv

20 February 2008, 23:47	#58
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	The thick plottens... I've been having some email discussions with Peter Thierolf, the original coder of Apidya (I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!). Firstly, he is very honoured that people are still interested in his game after all this time! He's also been very helpful in finding and going through the source code to help with my debugging efforts, so snaps and/or props to him for that. It turns out that the bug is more subtle than it seemed originally. The two values that I thought had been swapped are, in fact, correct. That much is obvious when you see the original commented source code, but not so clear from the disassembly and hex dumps I'd been working with up until now. In swapping the two values around, what I've done is plugged the subgame activation code into the player bullets vs. scenery collision detection instead of the player vs. scenery collision detection, as it should be. The result is that the Speed Of Light subgame works if you fire at the right place on the level instead of flying into it. Why the player vs. scenery code doesn't work as shipped is still a mystery, but I (with Peter's help) will continue to look into it to get a proper fix for the subgame. Stay tuned!

20 February 2008, 23:50	#59
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Now my head hurts Another interesting discovery.

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