Sega Saturn question ???

plasmatron · 04 April 2008, 20:14

Want to buy me a saturn in the next days. Now I need to know if the saturn needs a modchip to run isos ? Never had a saturn back in the day, so I really don`t know.

laser · 04 April 2008, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasmatron

Want to buy me a saturn in the next days. Now I need to know if the saturn needs a modchip to run isos ? Never had a saturn back in the day, so I really don`t know.

if you are honest and you play original games you don't need that

keropi · 04 April 2008, 20:26

yes, it needs a modchip...

DoogUK · 04 April 2008, 20:57

not so true....there is a swap trick..

Retro-Nerd · 04 April 2008, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoogUK

not so true....there is a swap trick..

And not good for the CD drive... and maybe not for your fingers.

DoogUK · 04 April 2008, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

And not good for the CD drive... and maybe not for your fingers.

Now that.......is true!

alexh · 04 April 2008, 21:37

If you plan on running CD-R on Sega Saturn you must get a Model 2 (Round buttons) which use a 21-pin cable between the CD drive and the main board (where the modchip goes).

You will NEVER get a 20-pin modchip these days for a Model 1 (oval buttons).

Saturn modchips are nice. They are "plug and play", no soldering (although some modchips are missing a loop-back wire on them).

I know pretty much all there is to know about Saturn Modchips, almost to the point of being able to make clones from scratch ;-)

Also you should consider getting one of these.

This is one of the best Sega Saturn forums, learn everything you need here.

DoogUK · 04 April 2008, 21:44

Always amazes that the saturn needed a modchip....and their next generation dreamcast was left so open to exploitation.

alexh · 04 April 2008, 21:48

I think they were developed by two different companies. The dreamcast is effectively a design by PC company Imagination Technologies (Formally Videologic), whereas the Saturn was (AFAIK) pretty much an in-house design.

Retro-Nerd · 04 April 2008, 21:54

The newer Dreamcast consoles (from October 2000, with a new cd drive) couldn't boot backups. I guess you need a mod-chip for this ones too, iirc.

Retroplay · 04 April 2008, 22:13

This reminds me of the first batch of PlayStation's where you didn't need a modchip either.
All I had todo is enter the CD player and insert an original game and let it spin up, remove it and insert the backup and play.

The downside is that I have to leave the lid open.
So I got it modded afterall.

cv643d · 04 April 2008, 22:50

I bougth a white japanese Saturn two years ago.

Opened it up and yes it was chipped, with a rare 20 pin mod chip. And I thought it wasnt modded.

DoogUK · 04 April 2008, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

The newer Dreamcast consoles (from October 2000, with a new cd drive) couldn't boot backups. I guess you need a mod-chip for this ones too, iirc.

They all had a gdrom drive, it was pretty much touch and go wether they booted backups or not.
The ones that didn't would using a boot disk....which surprisingly would boot being a copy.

Retro-Nerd · 05 April 2008, 00:44

There are a lot of selfboot Dreamcast backups, which runs without the crappy utopia bootdisk. Sadly i sold my Dreamcast in 2003. This PAL/NTSC selfboot backups runs with newer Dreamcast consoles too (without mod-chip)?

AmigaHope · 05 April 2008, 02:02

Saturns have two protection schemes.

1. They have region protection, which is controlled by in-band data in the ISO-9660 filesystem. You can a) Use a tool to change the region of your ISO image and reburn, b) install a hardware switch that changes the region jumpers on the Saturn motherboard (this is a fairly easy soldering job), c) use a cartridge that defeats the region protection in software.

2. Copy protection. This is a special track on the outside of the disc that cannot be copied normally. It is read both during the boot logo when direct booting, and in the system menu to determine if a disc is bootable. Your options to defeat this are a) swap trick -- pretty easy, just swap in an original of any region whenever it seeks to the protection track. This is a really forgiving and easy swap b) modchip -- inexpensive and easy to install

The Dreamcast region protection is also in-band, and you can modify it however you want when you're modifying an ISO image. You cannot, however, burn a GD-ROM as nobody ever released consumer burning hardware for the format. Consequently a Dreamcast modchip is only useful for booting ORIGINAL discs from outside your region -- and you can use a bootdisc too boot them instead.

All current Dreamcast backups use hacks to inject code when the Dreamcast reads data from CD-ROM formats that it supports. Most older dreamcasts support the Mil-CD format, which supports directly loading code. Later hacks had to use a different technique, but there are boot techniques that work on every Dreamcast ever manufactured.

Most later-released selfboot backups will therefore work on late-model Dreamcasts -- and those that don't can be booted with a bootdisc that does.

Retro-Nerd · 05 April 2008, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaHope

Most later-released selfboot backups will therefore work on late-model Dreamcasts -- and those that don't can be booted with a bootdisc that does.

Thanks for the info matey. Yesterday I bought a Dreamcast again. Can't wait to test the SNES, Genesis, Mame and Neo Geo emu compilations.

DoogUK · 05 April 2008, 10:18

I still have all my dreamcast kit including the light gun, stereing wheel, fishing rod etc and over 200 games.
It was and still is a brilliant console and runs emulators so well.
Its a shame they never carried on with the development of the dreamcast 2.
I especialy like the massive amount of homebrew software for it, with simple boot disks it became an mp3 player or a vcd player amongst other things....quite an achievement for its time.

Dizzy · 05 April 2008, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Thanks for the info matey. Yesterday I bought a Dreamcast again. Can't wait to test the SNES, Genesis, Mame and Neo Geo emu compilations.

Good boy. now remove you from my list of people who need a visit from Fred and his Zombie army

Dreamcast rules (but the Saturn is nice too

)

Mick_AKA · 10 April 2008, 13:07

Saturn FTW

www.segasaturn.co.uk

Anubis · 11 April 2008, 22:33

I'm thinking to get Saturn, but without mod chip it would not make any sense to get it.

The thing is, I never moded single of my consoles.

I believe this one shouldn't be hard to do, but I need to find correct Saturn.

Has anyone order anything from Rob Webb?? I would like to order some stuff, but I'm not sure if is safe to order from him.

Thanks!

04 April 2008, 20:14	#1
plasmatron Zone Friend Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Age: 48 Posts: 967	Sega Saturn question ??? Want to buy me a saturn in the next days. Now I need to know if the saturn needs a modchip to run isos ? Never had a saturn back in the day, so I really don`t know.

04 April 2008, 21:37	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,331	If you plan on running CD-R on Sega Saturn you must get a Model 2 (Round buttons) which use a 21-pin cable between the CD drive and the main board (where the modchip goes). You will NEVER get a 20-pin modchip these days for a Model 1 (oval buttons). Saturn modchips are nice. They are "plug and play", no soldering (although some modchips are missing a loop-back wire on them). I know pretty much all there is to know about Saturn Modchips, almost to the point of being able to make clones from scratch ;-) Also you should consider getting one of these. This is one of the best Sega Saturn forums, learn everything you need here. Last edited by alexh; 04 April 2008 at 21:44.

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04 April 2008, 20:26	#3
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	yes, it needs a modchip...

04 April 2008, 20:57	#4
DoogUK Doogster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dorset Posts: 1,069	not so true....there is a swap trick..

04 April 2008, 21:44	#8
DoogUK Doogster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dorset Posts: 1,069	Always amazes that the saturn needed a modchip....and their next generation dreamcast was left so open to exploitation.

04 April 2008, 21:48	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,331	I think they were developed by two different companies. The dreamcast is effectively a design by PC company Imagination Technologies (Formally Videologic), whereas the Saturn was (AFAIK) pretty much an in-house design.

04 April 2008, 21:54	#10
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,435	The newer Dreamcast consoles (from October 2000, with a new cd drive) couldn't boot backups. I guess you need a mod-chip for this ones too, iirc.

04 April 2008, 22:13	#11
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,079	This reminds me of the first batch of PlayStation's where you didn't need a modchip either. All I had todo is enter the CD player and insert an original game and let it spin up, remove it and insert the backup and play. The downside is that I have to leave the lid open. So I got it modded afterall.

04 April 2008, 22:50	#12
cv643d Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 762	I bougth a white japanese Saturn two years ago. Opened it up and yes it was chipped, with a rare 20 pin mod chip. And I thought it wasnt modded.

05 April 2008, 00:44	#14
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,435	There are a lot of selfboot Dreamcast backups, which runs without the crappy utopia bootdisk. Sadly i sold my Dreamcast in 2003. This PAL/NTSC selfboot backups runs with newer Dreamcast consoles too (without mod-chip)?

05 April 2008, 02:02	#15
AmigaHope Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Sandusky Posts: 942	Saturns have two protection schemes. 1. They have region protection, which is controlled by in-band data in the ISO-9660 filesystem. You can a) Use a tool to change the region of your ISO image and reburn, b) install a hardware switch that changes the region jumpers on the Saturn motherboard (this is a fairly easy soldering job), c) use a cartridge that defeats the region protection in software. 2. Copy protection. This is a special track on the outside of the disc that cannot be copied normally. It is read both during the boot logo when direct booting, and in the system menu to determine if a disc is bootable. Your options to defeat this are a) swap trick -- pretty easy, just swap in an original of any region whenever it seeks to the protection track. This is a really forgiving and easy swap b) modchip -- inexpensive and easy to install The Dreamcast region protection is also in-band, and you can modify it however you want when you're modifying an ISO image. You cannot, however, burn a GD-ROM as nobody ever released consumer burning hardware for the format. Consequently a Dreamcast modchip is only useful for booting ORIGINAL discs from outside your region -- and you can use a bootdisc too boot them instead. All current Dreamcast backups use hacks to inject code when the Dreamcast reads data from CD-ROM formats that it supports. Most older dreamcasts support the Mil-CD format, which supports directly loading code. Later hacks had to use a different technique, but there are boot techniques that work on every Dreamcast ever manufactured. Most later-released selfboot backups will therefore work on late-model Dreamcasts -- and those that don't can be booted with a bootdisc that does.

05 April 2008, 10:18	#17
DoogUK Doogster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dorset Posts: 1,069	I still have all my dreamcast kit including the light gun, stereing wheel, fishing rod etc and over 200 games. It was and still is a brilliant console and runs emulators so well. Its a shame they never carried on with the development of the dreamcast 2. I especialy like the massive amount of homebrew software for it, with simple boot disks it became an mp3 player or a vcd player amongst other things....quite an achievement for its time.

10 April 2008, 13:07	#19
Mick_AKA crusader of light Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stone, Staffordshire. Posts: 1,151	Saturn FTW www.segasaturn.co.uk

11 April 2008, 22:33	#20
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,058	I'm thinking to get Saturn, but without mod chip it would not make any sense to get it. The thing is, I never moded single of my consoles. I believe this one shouldn't be hard to do, but I need to find correct Saturn. Has anyone order anything from Rob Webb?? I would like to order some stuff, but I'm not sure if is safe to order from him. Thanks!

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