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Old 05 November 2015, 00:25   #41
Steve
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I think Aladdin is 50fps.
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Old 05 November 2015, 00:27   #42
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NO, especially Aladdin isn't 50fps. You can clearly see the frame drop and motion blur. Kinda disappointing for an AGA game since the Mega Drive version is 100% smooth.

edit: For SWIV. Maybe you are right. The enemies looks like 25fps.
edit2: Yep, 25fps. Read Codetappers interesting interview with Roland Pieket Weeserik.

http://www.codetapper.com/amiga/inte...eket-weeserik/

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 05 November 2015 at 00:44.
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Old 05 November 2015, 11:38   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
So, as I was looking around and didn't find a similar thread listing 50 fps games, I thought I'd start this one. Plz, tell me what should I add or correct in this list, I think we should include games that may have small framedrops/slow downs here and there, but they are for the larger part running at the 50 fps (60 fpa for NTSC) mark. I'll just split it to OCS/ECS and AGA:
Almost all software in Amiga run with 50/60fps (depends on code speed) - not many software check for odd/even field - all fields are usual considered as frames i.e. 50/60fps.
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Old 05 November 2015, 11:53   #44
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Quote:
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How do you know the frame rate of a game - surely feel is not scientific enough? Is there a way to analyse on a real Amiga?
Capture video trough widely available HW solution (just set your capture as 720x576 25fps or 720x480 at 29.97(30) fps - if capture device offer for example 352x576/480 then it can be selected to reduce amount of data to capture), open such capture trough avisynth script (very simple, source + separatefields() command ) - check if there is change betwen fields - if yes then game is 50/60 fps - how many games is capable to provide sustained, constant 50/60 fps this is different story...

If you use AVI file then script like this is all you need:

Code:
AviSource("somedisk:\somefolderfolder\capture.avi")
# it may be necessary to manually set video field dominance - un-comment (remove # ) one of bellow AssumexFF
# AssumeTFF() #Top Field First video
# or
# AssumeBFF() #Bottom Field First video
separatefields()
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Old 05 November 2015, 11:57   #45
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Added all suggested and put SWIV into the mixed section as I think it scrolls@50 but sprites are updated every other frame. If someone feels like it doesn't belong there, plz let me know. Same goes for the other games added of course.

What about Kick off 2, Goal!, Fighting Spirit (ECS, AGA) and Black Viper (ECS, AGA)?

@pandy71

thx for the script, I'll make a suggestion to Toni Willen if a tool can be added to winuae and if it's a no, then we can check this solution as it is more time consuming.
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Old 05 November 2015, 12:08   #46
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I wish I had this list 6 months ago while I was deciding if to keep a CRT around or not

Oh well, I've got another one coming my way anyway
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Old 05 November 2015, 12:52   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post
Added all suggested and put SWIV into the mixed section as I think it scrolls@50 but sprites are updated every other frame. If someone feels like it doesn't belong there, plz let me know. Same goes for the other games added of course.
I might have missed the point on this, so feel free to correct.

I think SWIV runs on a 320x200 display, so scrolling at 50fps at 1 line per field would mean the screen goes top to bottom in 4 seconds. I'm pretty sure it doesn't move that fast.
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Old 05 November 2015, 12:59   #48
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I'm no expert, but i think scrolling speed has nothing to do with 50fps or not. Look at Ruff'n Tumble. It scrolls super fast, but it's a 25fps (or less) game. If you can't see any stutter, hickups, jitter, ghosting/motion blur etc. in a game while it scrolls it has to be 50fps.

More games to add. Leander, Agony, Bio Challenge, Blood Money, Bubble and Squeak (all versions) Cedric and the Lost Sceptre, Chuck Rock, Chuck Rock II, Menace, Nicky Boom, Nicky II, Odyssey, Wings of Death.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 05 November 2015 at 13:51.
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Old 05 November 2015, 13:57   #49
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I'm not sure about Cannon Fodder. The helicopter cutscenes are surely 50 Hz and perhaps the map scrolling, but the character movements and animations doesn't look like 50 Hz. So this might be some 50 Hz/25 Hz mix?

Also, Zool can be disputed.. It may be 50 Hz some of time but the slowdowns are so bad that it may be 10 Hz some times.

Goal! (perhaps the series?) is also 50 Hz from what I remember.

And if you have a fast enough machine, perhaps ADoom can be considered a 50 Hz game.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:09   #50
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Is everyone ok with the games Retro_Nerd has suggested? I think they are 50 fps. I've to see Wings of Death again though, I'm not completely certain about this one. What others think?

@Total Eclipse
What Retro-Nerd said, basically, scrolling speed, frames per second and monitor refresh rate are 3 different (but somewhat mutually dependent) things. I'm not the guy to give you the most technical of explanations, but - in essence - you can have a 50hz display, with a scroller at 25 fps (refreshing data every other frame) and a fast scrolling speed of an entire screen (or more) per second or the slowest of scrollings of, say, half a screen per 5 seconds.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:14   #51
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@demolition

I'd like to hear from more ppl before moving Cannon Fodder, you could be right of course. I'll keep Zool in with an asterisk right now until I or someone else revisits it and checks if the slow downs are there for a really big part of the game time or not. I agree with Goal! , I'll add this one. I won't go into the 3D/Texture Mapped games territory as they're wildly dependent on CPU power and display type (ECS,AGA,RTG) and they can really go anywhere from 1fps per 10 seconds to the 200+ fps territory on the right machine (ie fast winuae systems).
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:16   #52
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25/50 Hz refers to how often elements are updated on the screen. Some games might also update the background with 50Hz but only update the remaining elements every other screen, i.e. 25Hz. So perhaps some clearer definition should be done?

The most obvious difference in regards to 25/50 Hz is the scrolling of the background in a platformer.

I also think Bubble Bobble/Rainbow Islands/Parasol Stars is 50 Hz, despite the sluggishness of the controls?
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:20   #53
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Hz is for the monitor refresh (independent of the display data fed by the computer), while fps is for the data refresh. Indeed some games scroll at 25 and move sprites at 50 and vice versa hence the mixed fps sections.

I think I agree with Parasol Stars, not sure about the other two, maybe some more feedback before adding them to the list?
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:22   #54
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Is this really true? I thought that 25fps@50Hz games shows every frame twice per second (hence the ghosting in motion) because the output is always 50fps@50Hz. Has nothing to do with 25Hz imo. But maybe demolition meant it so.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 05 November 2015 at 14:28.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:22   #55
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My suggestions are purely from memory, so will need to test them out at home to verify.

Edit: FPS is also measured in Hz. So is screen refresh. And sprite movements. Hz simply means 'per second' or (s^-1), so it is used to measure all update rates. Which is why it needs to be specified exactly what needs to be updated with 50 Hz for it to qualify as a 50 Hz game.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:31   #56
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@demolition
Of course hz is per second, but how do we distinguish monitor refresh from gfx refresh? So, hz for monitor, fps (frames per second) for actual gfx refresh.

Now, as I said, if scrolling and sprites have different fps, they go to the mixed sections. Do you all agree with this kind of categorization? Is it clear enough for everyone?

@Retro-Nerd
what you said, at 25fps/50hz a frame is sent at every other hz thus every frame is retained for another hz to match the display refresh.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:36   #57
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25fps scrolling = the whole screen shows ghosting while it scrolls.
25fps sprites/animation = only this objects shows ghosting in motion.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:39   #58
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yes, in effect, yes, that's what happens
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:40   #59
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One more term that should be clarified - jitter. Jitter is not the same as judder from 25 Hz scrolling. Jitter is a measure of how much the current frame rate varies from the average frame rate. So if a game is constant 25Hz all the time, it has no jitter. If a game is running 33Hz on average, that means it basically varies between 25 Hz and 50 Hz (assuming vsync which I think all Amiga games use) which can be quite unpleasant. This is why many games was locked to 25 Hz if they could not keep a steady 50 Hz.
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Old 05 November 2015, 14:42   #60
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Hz means "per second", whereas fps means "frames per second", so maybe we could write fHz or "frames-hertz".

Zool is basically 50fps (it is 50fps when not much is going on) but it drops a lot of frames, i don't remember it being as bad as described above (at least not on first two levels, which is as far as i played it) but it is bad enough to be annoying. Definitely more "jitter" than "judder", maybe it could be called 49fps?
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