Commodore sucks! (rant) - Page 2

majsta · 20 August 2016, 21:35

Amiga 600 was build because Commodore had vision at the time. They build it because of me :P

Agilent · 20 August 2016, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by majsta

Amiga 600 was build because Commodore had vision at the time. They build it because of me :P

Is this you ? :

[ Show youtube player ]

StarQuake · 20 August 2016, 22:04

Sorry if I don't know my classics. What movie is this?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

emufan · 20 August 2016, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agilent

Is this you ?

I dont think so - this is Dr. Jed Hill impersonated by Alex Baldwin.

Quote:

Sorry if I don't know my classics. What movie is this?

Malice -1993

majsta · 21 August 2016, 12:09

@Agilent I have tried to be funny and I m sorry that you don't have sense of humor.

Megol · 21 August 2016, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by majsta

@Agilent I have tried to be funny and I m sorry that you don't have sense of humor.

I thought he made a joke about your joke?

B14ck W01f · 22 August 2016, 04:43

The Amiga 500Plus was a huge waste of money. Why build a gaming machine that games that were released at the time were incapable of running on (Eliminator comes to mind). Sure, the A600 had its downfalls as well, but at least it was upgradable.

The worst thing with C= was the fact they misled people into thinking that they were buying A500s, when C= replaced the A500 motherboard with the one already in the A500Plus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

AGA - why no audio improvements? And was Jay Miner consulted on this chipset? I was so disappointed when I heard about the flaws in this stop-gap of a chipset. Stupid Commodore.

I don't think I agree with this statement. Isn't AGA responsible for handling the graphics? Paula was responsible for the audio as well as the ports, and the chip should have received the upgrade, not AGA.

OlafSch · 22 August 2016, 13:08

@Yasu

I somewhere read that Irving Gould and others from top management never used any amiga so they propably never understood what jewel they got. For them it was propably just another computer line like the C64 bringing them profit. And the C64 was profitable without needing any serious investments so they propably thought this would be the case for amiga too, seriously underestimating how the PC market would develop. So yes, they earn serious bashing and every blame in my view. But of course Amiga (if survived) would propably be very different to the amigas at that time, using standard components and propably be AMD/Intel based

OlafSch · 22 August 2016, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by B14ck W01f

The Amiga 500Plus was a huge waste of money. Why build a gaming machine that games that were released at the time were incapable of running on (Eliminator comes to mind). Sure, the A600 had its downfalls as well, but at least it was upgradable.

The worst thing with C= was the fact they misled people into thinking that they were buying A500s, when C= replaced the A500 motherboard with the one already in the A500Plus.

I don't think I agree with this statement. Isn't AGA responsible for handling the graphics? Paula was responsible for the audio as well as the ports, and the chip should have received the upgrade, not AGA.

they did not seriously invest in better chipsets so even slight changes were progress to them. But of course it was not enough to stay competitive.

OlafSch · 22 August 2016, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megol

I thought he made a joke about your joke?

I would see that too :-)

Next is that majsta has no understanding of humour too

idrougge · 22 August 2016, 14:14

Okay, so where would Commodore find money for developing new chipsets? Look at their profit margins.

OlafSch · 22 August 2016, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrougge

Okay, so where would Commodore find money for developing new chipsets? Look at their profit margins.

they wasted money, they even invested money in PC production despite being too small to compete there. They should have concentrated money on the best product they had, the amiga. But that would have needed that they were both aware of it and have a real strategy, both not the case unfortunately.

idrougge · 22 August 2016, 17:27

If Commodore was too small to compete in the PC arena (which they successfully competed in for several years), they were too small to design and fab their own custom architecture and OS.

Q.E.D.

EugeneNine · 23 August 2016, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrougge

Okay, so where would Commodore find money for developing new chipsets? Look at their profit margins.

Remember they bought MOS early on when they had lots of profit from the early sales of the PET, VIC20, etc. After a few years yes their profit margins were less but they had already made the outlay for the purchase so it didn't really cost them as much to create new chipsets in the later years.

DopPie · 23 August 2016, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneNine

Remember they bought MOS early on when they had lots of profit from the early sales of the PET, VIC20, etc. After a few years yes their profit margins were less but they had already made the outlay for the purchase so it didn't really cost them as much to create new chipsets in the later years.

They did not buy mos from profits of sales from pet or Vic 20. Tramiel needed a chip for their calculators. It was after the acquisition when Chuck Peddle talked Tramiel into doing the Pet. Or so I've read in the on the edge book.

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EugeneNine · 24 August 2016, 13:19

ehh so my history is off a little bit

The point I as trying to make was they bough MOS when they had money not in the later years when they were loosing money. If you already have the company then it didn't cost much to release new chips and if your desperate your going to throw a bunch of ideas out there hoping one sticks.

idrougge · 24 August 2016, 22:04

MOS couldn't keep up pace with the rest of the world. Commodore's foundry was great until around 1985, after that it kept lagging behind and in the case of the A4000 and A1200, they started letting others companies like NCR, HP and VLSI fab the Amiga chips because it was either too demanding or too expensive to do at MOS.

But doing so is obviously an option – ARM has never had a foundry of its own yet it is very competitive and profitable. What really can cost money is to actually develop the chips you want to manufacture. Commodore didn't have the money to do so.

EugeneNine · 24 August 2016, 23:47

And thats probably why we got a bunch of minor updates and variations on the existing. All the experienced engineers would have left or been let go as they cost (salary) more so the few left would just make small additions to the existing design and then a minor change to the tooling to make them.

idrougge · 25 August 2016, 17:55

Bringing the original Amiga technology to actual manufacturing cost Commodore most of their savings. They had to sell a lot of Amigas to recoup those costs before they could afford developing anything more than minor updates.

That said, they should have had the resources to at least bring out AGA a lot earlier.

AJCopland · 25 August 2016, 18:18

Worth also pointing out that pay amongst the executives was some of the highest in the industry -> http://articles.philly.com/1990-11-0...ment-mehdi-ali

i.e. the took the money and spent as little as they could get away with on the tech.

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20 August 2016, 21:35	#21
majsta www.majsta.com Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Banjaluka/Republic of Srpska Age: 43 Posts: 448	Amiga 600 was build because Commodore had vision at the time. They build it because of me :P

20 August 2016, 22:04	#23
StarQuake Registered User Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: The Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 81	Sorry if I don't know my classics. What movie is this? Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

21 August 2016, 12:09	#25
majsta www.majsta.com Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Banjaluka/Republic of Srpska Age: 43 Posts: 448	@Agilent I have tried to be funny and I m sorry that you don't have sense of humor.

22 August 2016, 13:08	#28
OlafSch Registered User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Nuernberg Posts: 795	@Yasu I somewhere read that Irving Gould and others from top management never used any amiga so they propably never understood what jewel they got. For them it was propably just another computer line like the C64 bringing them profit. And the C64 was profitable without needing any serious investments so they propably thought this would be the case for amiga too, seriously underestimating how the PC market would develop. So yes, they earn serious bashing and every blame in my view. But of course Amiga (if survived) would propably be very different to the amigas at that time, using standard components and propably be AMD/Intel based

22 August 2016, 14:14	#31
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	Okay, so where would Commodore find money for developing new chipsets? Look at their profit margins.

22 August 2016, 17:27	#33
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	If Commodore was too small to compete in the PC arena (which they successfully competed in for several years), they were too small to design and fab their own custom architecture and OS. Q.E.D.

24 August 2016, 13:19	#36
EugeneNine Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 185	ehh so my history is off a little bit The point I as trying to make was they bough MOS when they had money not in the later years when they were loosing money. If you already have the company then it didn't cost much to release new chips and if your desperate your going to throw a bunch of ideas out there hoping one sticks.

24 August 2016, 22:04	#37
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	MOS couldn't keep up pace with the rest of the world. Commodore's foundry was great until around 1985, after that it kept lagging behind and in the case of the A4000 and A1200, they started letting others companies like NCR, HP and VLSI fab the Amiga chips because it was either too demanding or too expensive to do at MOS. But doing so is obviously an option – ARM has never had a foundry of its own yet it is very competitive and profitable. What really can cost money is to actually develop the chips you want to manufacture. Commodore didn't have the money to do so.

24 August 2016, 23:47	#38
EugeneNine Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 185	And thats probably why we got a bunch of minor updates and variations on the existing. All the experienced engineers would have left or been let go as they cost (salary) more so the few left would just make small additions to the existing design and then a minor change to the tooling to make them.

25 August 2016, 17:55	#39
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	Bringing the original Amiga technology to actual manufacturing cost Commodore most of their savings. They had to sell a lot of Amigas to recoup those costs before they could afford developing anything more than minor updates. That said, they should have had the resources to at least bring out AGA a lot earlier.

25 August 2016, 18:18	#40
AJCopland Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Beeston, Nottinghamshire, UK Posts: 238	Worth also pointing out that pay amongst the executives was some of the highest in the industry -> http://articles.philly.com/1990-11-0...ment-mehdi-ali i.e. the took the money and spent as little as they could get away with on the tech.

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