American users... Best monitor option for a PAL A1200 over here? - Page 2

Hewitson · 11 September 2018, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermick

So in terms of the 1084S... again, I'm a gobshite when it comes to the PAL/NTSC debate, but one assumes that if I find one here (and find room to set it up) it's going to be firmly an NTSC model, and give me issues with bottom of the screen chopping?

It's important to understand the difference between PAL/NTSC and 50/60hz.

PAL and NTSC are nothing but colour encoding formats. The Amiga erroneously refers to 50hz as PAL and 60hz as NTSC. This is misleading and simply incorrect.

An NTSC Amiga will output 50hz or 60hz in NTSC.

A PAL Amiga will output 50hz or 60hz in PAL.

nexus · 11 September 2018, 18:38

why you should go RGB then PAL/NTSC dont matter
the GBS-82XX have RGB input etc so as long as the scaler can do 50/60Hz you are good
if you want something you can hook many things into your tv's etc then go for a OSSC they are cheaper it you built it fyi
easily have many retro connected to 1

Hewitson · 12 September 2018, 11:45

The GBS (aside from being cheap and nasty) does not support a 50hz output. Not recommended.

idrougge · 12 September 2018, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikerochip

I use a Dell 2001FP, and it's pretty great. But it's biggest drawback is that it doesn't remember the position of the screen, after a resolution change.

Looks like absolute shit compared to a Benq.

ubermick · 12 September 2018, 16:43

Yeah, I already had the GBS-82XX on the previous Amiga and LCD monitor, and it looked like garbage. Really unimpressed by it, although apparently a spot of copper tape helps. I already have one, so...

The Benq - despite being expensive - apparently doesn't chop off pixels in overscan, compared to some of the other ones, notably the NEC. Again though, for the price of the Benq 702A shipped to the USA (about $200) I could get the Indivision AGA Mk2 from Jens and use the Amiga on one of the 4 monitors I already have?

desiv · 12 September 2018, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

The GBS (aside from being cheap and nasty) does not support a 50hz output. Not recommended.

Not sure specifically what you are saying there.

I display games/display modes that output from the Amiga at 50Hz on my VGA monitor using a GBS. They do display and function.

I'm not sure what the output frequency is from the GBS to the VGA monitor, so maybe that is what you are mentioning?

desiv

Wayne123 · 12 September 2018, 21:52

There are some projects on the net to improve the video output from the GBS devices, not just putting copper tape over the RAM traces. My GBS-8200 does not have the white specks problem, the image just looks soft. The Amiga to SCART and then SCART to HDMI converter looked better on my monitors. My A2000 has a Microway Flicker Fixer, fast motion shows interlacing artifacts and I also have vertical bars, I have noticed the vertical bars in other peoples EBAY listings also.

The BENQ 702A looks OK at low rez but interlaced resolutions flicker and look soft to me, I paid $136 plus about $30 shipping to buy one from Italy and have it shipped to California, the Amazon reseller I bought from has raised the price about $20 since I bought mine.

If it were me, I would try looking into some of the GBS image quality improvement options before spending too much money on other options.

ubermick · 12 September 2018, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne123

If it were me, I would try looking into some of the GBS image quality improvement options before spending too much money on other options.

Yeah, that's more or less where I'm at. I have the GBS already, I even managed to talk Pavel (the fella on Amibay who sells the RGB to VGA cables) to part with an extra 23 pin connector to build a cable for it rather than dremeling a 25-pin. Based on the few youtube videos I've watched the copper tape is really the one that makes a difference, the extra resistors seem to be hit and miss. Some of the NEC monitors like the EA190M and 1970V are available on fleabay for $40-50 so not a huge outlay to see if that works. It'll probably be "tolerable" for me. If not, I'll start looking at the Indivision.

Wayne123 · 12 September 2018, 23:20

There are some other projects with sync strippers and using arduinos for settings also.
I just picked up a NEC 1970VX brand new in the box for $31 just last month, was even the white cased model so it better matches my Atari I bought it for.

Wayne123 · 13 September 2018, 08:48

I decided to do some testing with my Amiga 500 and my NEC 1970VX, using just the VGA adapter the picture quality was very soft, after setting my 500 to interlaced mode the PQ was an extremely soft, flickering mess.

I dug out my GBS-8200, it gave the best image quality in low rez and it looked pretty good in interlaced mode, my GBS-8200 does not suffer from some of the problems I see people complain about, my 500 is NTSC and not PAL so maybe that makes a difference.
My 19" NEC might be softer than the BENQ 702A due to a larger screen size.

I next tried my Amiga to SCART cable with my $30 SCART to HDMI adapter on my 27" HP monitor, in low rez it looked really good, in interlaced mode it had what almost looked like hum bars moving from the bottom of the frame to the top. I wonder if it might have been better with a 50Hz. PAL signal feeding it instead of a 60Hz NTSC.
The image was also stretched because my 27" monitor is 16:9.

Hewitson · 13 September 2018, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Not sure specifically what you are saying there.

I display games/display modes that output from the Amiga at 50Hz on my VGA monitor using a GBS. They do display and function.

I'm not sure what the output frequency is from the GBS to the VGA monitor, so maybe that is what you are mentioning?

desiv

Yes, I'm referring to the output refresh rate. Even if you feed it a 50hz signal, it'll convert it to 60hz, resulting in jerky scrolling. Also, old computers/consoles look terrible without scanlines, which I don't believe the GBS is capable of.

Much better off with an RGB to YUV converter and a CRT TV.

desiv · 13 September 2018, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Yes, I'm referring to the output refresh rate. Even if you feed it a 50hz signal, it'll convert it to 60hz, resulting in jerky scrolling. Also, old computers/consoles look terrible without scanlines, which I don't believe the GBS is capable of.

Much better off with an RGB to YUV converter and a CRT TV.

Mostly agree there.
I do a lot of my gaming with my A1000 on the 1084s monitor.
The A1200 with the GBS is more for the non-games stuff.
Although I do use it for some AGA games. But I don't have the deskspace for an extra monitor there, so I use a KVM and it shares the same monitor (using the GBS) as my PC. It's not as good, but workable for me...
(Note: the KVM is only for the monitor. I still use the Amiga keyboard and mouse. Yes, I grab the wrong mouse sometimes... ;-)

desiv

AmigaHope · 10 December 2018, 01:59

1084-equivalents are pretty easy to find in the U.S. (whether the Philips or Samsung-type) -- you just have to search for equivalent part numbers for the ones that had RGB input ports. *ALL* of them will work fine at 50Hz and have vertical/horizontal sizing controls to fit a PAL display size. The caveat here is that some of them place the sizing potentiometers on the motherboard instead of on the external controls. The great thing about the 1084 was that they were all available externally.

Failing that, it's not that hard to do a mod on 90's-era televisions to turn them into RGB monitors capable of 50Hz. The display chipsets in them often have at least one RGB input that you can solder directly onto. The downside is that it is usually occupied by the onscreen display (which means you have to add a switch to change software-defined controls). The vertical/horizontal size pots on these are almost always on the motherboard, except for late 90's ones where they are in the hidden service mode of the onscreen display.

EDIT: Also if you can find a late 90's CRT TV that supports component video out of the box, many of them work fine at 50Hz -- you need a passive RGB -> Component converter in between (NOT a digital framebuffer converter). You can build a RGB -> Component converter yourself if you need to using relatively few passive components. This is especially easy if you have a pre-added luma line that you can tap into as then you can just subtract it from the R and B lines to get the component lines. Then you need to go into the hidden service mode on the TV (or use onboard pots) to adjust the display to PAL aspect ratio.

Honey Badger · 26 December 2018, 15:16

I purchased my Amiga 600 from a bloke in the UK. And I acquired a power supply with a US-type plug & current. For a monitor, I'm using a Dell U2211H connected via RGB video DB23 D-Sub cable.

Found them all on eBay, by the way ... and the monitor was just $70 delivered!

grhmhome · 26 December 2018, 15:23

You could use a Commodore 1084 monitor with a rgb cable. That is what I use as my Amiga runs in PAL mode.

wiser3 · 27 December 2018, 05:15

I use a RGB to Scart connector plus convertor that converts the video and sound to HDMI. It has worked with every TV and monitor with an HDMI connector that i've tried.

n9yty · 29 December 2018, 04:11

I am using an DB23 to SCART adapter. The one I had was made with a sawed-off connector and somewhat questionable cable... I just got a new one for ~US$25 that is vastly superior in quality with real a DB23.

Anyway, putting that into a SCART to HDMI adapter box, from Amazon. A little black box, square, with HDMI IN and OUT and SCART IN. Just labelled "HD Video Converter - SCART/HDMI to HDMI 720p/1080p".

It worked perfectly, and I saw an identical one on eBay and snagged it for US$5. However, the firmware is different. WHile my old one fills the screen, the new one leaves a small section on the right side of the monitor unused. No biggie. Also, the new one when going through the modes shows 720p/1080p whereas the old one showed resolution like 1920x1080.

So, I'm using the old one with full width. But I can run NTSC modes or PAL modes, very clean output, very happy with it.

I'm seeing these on Amazon/eBay for around US$25 or so, tempted to try to find another one with a similar firmware to my first one, but that would be impossible without trying them I would imagine. I can't find any settings menu/mode, and there is nothing adjustable on the board.

The silkscreening on the board says www.hdmi-video.com and HDV-8A/8S-2013. It does have a UART port without headers on the board but I don't know that it would be useful or not, haven't tried to connect to it.

11 September 2018, 18:38	#22
nexus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: USA Posts: 728	why you should go RGB then PAL/NTSC dont matter the GBS-82XX have RGB input etc so as long as the scaler can do 50/60Hz you are good if you want something you can hook many things into your tv's etc then go for a OSSC they are cheaper it you built it fyi easily have many retro connected to 1 Last edited by nexus; 11 September 2018 at 18:52.

12 September 2018, 16:43	#25
ubermick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: San Francisco-ish, via Ireland Posts: 114	Yeah, I already had the GBS-82XX on the previous Amiga and LCD monitor, and it looked like garbage. Really unimpressed by it, although apparently a spot of copper tape helps. I already have one, so... The Benq - despite being expensive - apparently doesn't chop off pixels in overscan, compared to some of the other ones, notably the NEC. Again though, for the price of the Benq 702A shipped to the USA (about $200) I could get the Indivision AGA Mk2 from Jens and use the Amiga on one of the 4 monitors I already have? Last edited by ubermick; 12 September 2018 at 16:49.

10 December 2018, 01:59	#33
AmigaHope Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Sandusky Posts: 942	1084-equivalents are pretty easy to find in the U.S. (whether the Philips or Samsung-type) -- you just have to search for equivalent part numbers for the ones that had RGB input ports. ALL of them will work fine at 50Hz and have vertical/horizontal sizing controls to fit a PAL display size. The caveat here is that some of them place the sizing potentiometers on the motherboard instead of on the external controls. The great thing about the 1084 was that they were all available externally. Failing that, it's not that hard to do a mod on 90's-era televisions to turn them into RGB monitors capable of 50Hz. The display chipsets in them often have at least one RGB input that you can solder directly onto. The downside is that it is usually occupied by the onscreen display (which means you have to add a switch to change software-defined controls). The vertical/horizontal size pots on these are almost always on the motherboard, except for late 90's ones where they are in the hidden service mode of the onscreen display. EDIT: Also if you can find a late 90's CRT TV that supports component video out of the box, many of them work fine at 50Hz -- you need a passive RGB -> Component converter in between (NOT a digital framebuffer converter). You can build a RGB -> Component converter yourself if you need to using relatively few passive components. This is especially easy if you have a pre-added luma line that you can tap into as then you can just subtract it from the R and B lines to get the component lines. Then you need to go into the hidden service mode on the TV (or use onboard pots) to adjust the display to PAL aspect ratio. Last edited by AmigaHope; 10 December 2018 at 02:18.

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12 September 2018, 11:45	#23
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,771	The GBS (aside from being cheap and nasty) does not support a 50hz output. Not recommended.

12 September 2018, 21:52	#27
Wayne123 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: So. California, USA Age: 63 Posts: 62	There are some projects on the net to improve the video output from the GBS devices, not just putting copper tape over the RAM traces. My GBS-8200 does not have the white specks problem, the image just looks soft. The Amiga to SCART and then SCART to HDMI converter looked better on my monitors. My A2000 has a Microway Flicker Fixer, fast motion shows interlacing artifacts and I also have vertical bars, I have noticed the vertical bars in other peoples EBAY listings also. The BENQ 702A looks OK at low rez but interlaced resolutions flicker and look soft to me, I paid $136 plus about $30 shipping to buy one from Italy and have it shipped to California, the Amazon reseller I bought from has raised the price about $20 since I bought mine. If it were me, I would try looking into some of the GBS image quality improvement options before spending too much money on other options.

12 September 2018, 23:20	#29
Wayne123 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: So. California, USA Age: 63 Posts: 62	There are some other projects with sync strippers and using arduinos for settings also. I just picked up a NEC 1970VX brand new in the box for $31 just last month, was even the white cased model so it better matches my Atari I bought it for.

13 September 2018, 08:48	#30
Wayne123 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: So. California, USA Age: 63 Posts: 62	I decided to do some testing with my Amiga 500 and my NEC 1970VX, using just the VGA adapter the picture quality was very soft, after setting my 500 to interlaced mode the PQ was an extremely soft, flickering mess. I dug out my GBS-8200, it gave the best image quality in low rez and it looked pretty good in interlaced mode, my GBS-8200 does not suffer from some of the problems I see people complain about, my 500 is NTSC and not PAL so maybe that makes a difference. My 19" NEC might be softer than the BENQ 702A due to a larger screen size. I next tried my Amiga to SCART cable with my $30 SCART to HDMI adapter on my 27" HP monitor, in low rez it looked really good, in interlaced mode it had what almost looked like hum bars moving from the bottom of the frame to the top. I wonder if it might have been better with a 50Hz. PAL signal feeding it instead of a 60Hz NTSC. The image was also stretched because my 27" monitor is 16:9.

26 December 2018, 15:16	#34
Honey Badger Registered User Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Des Moines, IA Age: 58 Posts: 88	I purchased my Amiga 600 from a bloke in the UK. And I acquired a power supply with a US-type plug & current. For a monitor, I'm using a Dell U2211H connected via RGB video DB23 D-Sub cable. Found them all on eBay, by the way ... and the monitor was just $70 delivered!

26 December 2018, 15:23	#35
grhmhome Registered User Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Washington USA Posts: 17	You could use a Commodore 1084 monitor with a rgb cable. That is what I use as my Amiga runs in PAL mode.

27 December 2018, 05:15	#36
wiser3 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 79	I use a RGB to Scart connector plus convertor that converts the video and sound to HDMI. It has worked with every TV and monitor with an HDMI connector that i've tried.

29 December 2018, 04:11	#37
n9yty Registered User Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Rockford IL / USA Posts: 35	I am using an DB23 to SCART adapter. The one I had was made with a sawed-off connector and somewhat questionable cable... I just got a new one for ~US$25 that is vastly superior in quality with real a DB23. Anyway, putting that into a SCART to HDMI adapter box, from Amazon. A little black box, square, with HDMI IN and OUT and SCART IN. Just labelled "HD Video Converter - SCART/HDMI to HDMI 720p/1080p". It worked perfectly, and I saw an identical one on eBay and snagged it for US$5. However, the firmware is different. WHile my old one fills the screen, the new one leaves a small section on the right side of the monitor unused. No biggie. Also, the new one when going through the modes shows 720p/1080p whereas the old one showed resolution like 1920x1080. So, I'm using the old one with full width. But I can run NTSC modes or PAL modes, very clean output, very happy with it. I'm seeing these on Amazon/eBay for around US$25 or so, tempted to try to find another one with a similar firmware to my first one, but that would be impossible without trying them I would imagine. I can't find any settings menu/mode, and there is nothing adjustable on the board. The silkscreening on the board says www.hdmi-video.com and HDV-8A/8S-2013. It does have a UART port without headers on the board but I don't know that it would be useful or not, haven't tried to connect to it.

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