A1200 or a SEGA Megadrive - which is better... - Page 8

roondar · 17 January 2020, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

@roondar

Wouldn't you say that the A1200 outperforms MD at large objects as well? Based on 64 pixels wide/unlimited height hw sprites of AGA?

It depends on what you want to achieve. If all you want is the single largest object you can create using AGA vs the MD, you'll find that both systems can generally cover slightly more than an entire screen with Bob and/or Sprite pixels.

However, in games you tend to have a whole bunch of objects and not just one very big one. Basically, if you want to draw as many 32x32 objects on screen as you can, the MD will definitely win. So I guess it'd be more accurate to say the MD wins at "big numbers of reasonably sized objects". This just so happens to be what most action games need most of the time, which is why I say the MD wins in that category.

Now, if your game relies heavily on many separate small objects (16x16 or smaller), this changes and the A1200 starts to take the lead.

vulture · 17 January 2020, 13:39

I was mostly thinking about big bosses tbh. You can use just a couple of hw sprites to fill about 40% of screen or so.

roondar · 17 January 2020, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

I was mostly thinking about big bosses tbh. You can use just a couple of hw sprites to fill about 40% of screen or so.

It's actually a bit more. You can cover up to 256 pixels horizontally with 15 colour sprites using AGA, which is 80% of a normal screen

Anyway, the MD can do this as well - just cut the big baddie up in blocks of 32x32 pixels, which is why I didn't see an advantage.

vulture · 17 January 2020, 15:02

Sure, but then, after using about 60-70 sprites to do that, how many sprites would've been left for enemy bullets etc after that? Not many I guess. Anyway, that's obviously a very specific scenario, so....

Retro1234 · 17 January 2020, 15:46

If anyone has a good idea of how many objects/Bob's(round balls 16*16 are classic) can be displayed on screen on an A1200 it should be McGeezer.

And there's always more interest in Games that work on non expanded spec, it's more interesting anyone can make a game run on endless Ram and CPU.

roondar · 17 January 2020, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

If anyone has a good idea of how many objects/Bob's(round balls 16*16 are classic) can be displayed on screen on an A1200 it should be McGeezer.

It would depend on the screenmode you use for Bobs. Don't have any A1200 numbers, but I did a test once for the A500 and got around 50 Bobs @16x16 for a 16 colour screen. This used no special tricks and no sprites.

Perhaps an A1200 test might be nice to do as well.

Quote:

And there's always more interest in Games that work on non expanded spec, it's more interesting anyone can make a game run on endless Ram and CPU.

This is 100% true. I have a lot of respect for those who do their magic even on the base Amiga models

Retro1234 · 17 January 2020, 15:57

Well LowRes I don't know maybe 64colours or Dual Playfield.

Yeah maybe but that's just hear say and not with any game logic or scrolling.

roondar · 17 January 2020, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Well LowRes I don't know maybe 64colours or Dual Playfield.

Yeah maybe but that's just hear say and not with any game logic or scrolling.

Scrolling doesn't change much as the overhead for that is not that big, but you are right, game logic will indeed lower these numbers.

It was just meant as a ballpark number by the way, nothing more. Take it as you will.

redblade · 17 January 2020, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by drHirudo

Back in early 2000-ies I was able to connect my non-expanded Amiga 1200 (without Hard Drive) to Internet with a 56K Modem and download games from Aminet. The only downside was that I had to switch disks, so later I added IdeFIX and installed everything on CD (Still no HD), then I had an usable Internet machine from that unexpanded A1200 - which was used in such config for several months.

A Sega console that was able to Browse the Internet was the Dreamcast, only two console generations later.

What TCP/IP stack did you use back then? AmiTCP or AmigaTCP?? What was max bps you could get with the 56K? I read 68000 was 19,200bps and 68020 was 28,800bps with no losses?!?

McGeezer, After doing Rygar, How many games do you think you could of coded or ported for the Amiga back in 92 -> Dec 94 using the tools available back in the day working full time?!?

redblade · 17 January 2020, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by roondar

It would depend on the screenmode you use for Bobs. Don't have any A1200 numbers, but I did a test once for the A500 and got around 50 Bobs @16x16 for a 16 colour screen. This used no special tricks and no sprites.

Is this double buffered or single screen update? I'm guessing this is with out a music routine as well?

mcgeezer · 17 January 2020, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by redblade

McGeezer, After doing Rygar, How many games do you think you could of coded or ported for the Amiga back in 92 -> Dec 94 using the tools available back in the day working full time?!?

I'm not sure as it depends on the game. Some could have been done quickly... others slowly... others not at all because when I was 17 I wasn't mentally tough enough to code games.

roondar · 17 January 2020, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by redblade

Is this double buffered or single screen update? I'm guessing this is with out a music routine as well?

No sprites, no music, using three buffers (double buffer+pristine buffer for quick restoring). No special Bob trickery. Merely to get an indication of what normal bobs can do on the A500.

drHirudo · 18 January 2020, 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by redblade

What TCP/IP stack did you use back then? AmiTCP or AmigaTCP?? What was max bps you could get with the 56K? I read 68000 was 19,200bps and 68020 was 28,800bps with no losses?!?

I used MiAMI. I was getting around 3-4 KB/second, which was for the times okay for browsing (text only, images turned off in AWeb), e-mail and games from Aminet.

Gardhul · 21 January 2020, 09:13

A1200 without any doubt!

Spriteer · 04 July 2021, 23:17

Much more resources were used to make Megadrive games. Look at Mercs, the Amiga version was rushed by a guy that made also the ST version. Not the developers fault, he did what he could in the time that he had. Amiga version in OK but MD version is just great. Given the same resources for developing the Amiga version could have been great too.

If I would have to choose one machine I would choose A1200. There is so much more you can do with it than just playing games.

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17 January 2020, 13:39	#142
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	I was mostly thinking about big bosses tbh. You can use just a couple of hw sprites to fill about 40% of screen or so.

17 January 2020, 15:02	#144
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Sure, but then, after using about 60-70 sprites to do that, how many sprites would've been left for enemy bullets etc after that? Not many I guess. Anyway, that's obviously a very specific scenario, so....

17 January 2020, 15:46	#145
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	If anyone has a good idea of how many objects/Bob's(round balls 16*16 are classic) can be displayed on screen on an A1200 it should be McGeezer. And there's always more interest in Games that work on non expanded spec, it's more interesting anyone can make a game run on endless Ram and CPU.

17 January 2020, 15:57	#147
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Well LowRes I don't know maybe 64colours or Dual Playfield. Yeah maybe but that's just hear say and not with any game logic or scrolling.

21 January 2020, 09:13	#154
Gardhul Registered User Join Date: May 2019 Location: Rome / Italy Posts: 54	A1200 without any doubt!

04 July 2021, 23:17	#155
Spriteer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Finland Posts: 56	Much more resources were used to make Megadrive games. Look at Mercs, the Amiga version was rushed by a guy that made also the ST version. Not the developers fault, he did what he could in the time that he had. Amiga version in OK but MD version is just great. Given the same resources for developing the Amiga version could have been great too. If I would have to choose one machine I would choose A1200. There is so much more you can do with it than just playing games.

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